Post-Game Talk: Pens vs. Habs - Error 404. Invalid Effort.

[Ryder71]

Giving up 11 goals in the first 2 games....

Why is defense so hard for this team?

It's not hard, it's hard work, and tonight no one was really wanting to put forth such an effort. You'll have games like this, but hopefully this will be the last snooze fest for a while.

 

[66-30-33]

So can we try Riikola next game? Maatta out, Riikola in, such an easy decision!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think it's time to panic with Murray. They need to do something because this is what he was doing last year and this year tragedy isn't an excuse. Dude is atrocious af. Also that defense is so horribly coach. The players are fine. The coaching is just flat out shit. Gonch and Martin need to tighten that shit the f*** up.

I can't believe I'm in a beautiful place and I sat and watched that shit. The only solace for me is that punk ass bitch McGregor got choked out like the little punk ass bitch that he is.

Send muzz to a shrink. Find a veteran back up to lean on. The guy f***ing sucks. He sucks. To say otherwise is f***ing cheating and lying to yourselves. Murray is f***ing horrible. At this point he's one of the worst number ones in the league. He's capable of better. The team needs to tighten up the defense but he also needs to be better. Much better than this.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think it's time to panic with Murray. They need to do something because this is what he was doing last year and this year tragedy isn't an excuse. Dude is atrocious af. Also that defense is so horribly coach. The players are fine. The coaching is just flat out ****. Gonch and Martin need to tighten that **** the **** up.

I can't believe I'm in a beautiful place and I sat and watched that ****. The only solace for me is that punk ass ***** McGregor got choked out like the little punk ass ***** that he is.

I think it's time the club maybe brought in a veteran backup to at least spell Murray if he's struggling. Carrying two unproven kids as his backup isn't looking like the best decision, in retrospect.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't even know what Murray's situation is like or how it plays out. Maybe he needs a mentor like Fleury to keep him steady and calm until he gets older?

I still call last season's performance a wash. The kid dealt with some shit that would've floored any one of us in a day to day job, let alone being the franchise goalie of a Cup chasing team.

As for his glove, it's bad. But every goalie has a weakness, nobody's perfect. The thing that's worried me is that he's lost his calmness, his control. When Murray was at his best he was the anti-Fleury; no rebounds, calm and collected, perfect technical and fundamental stuff like angles, never rattled. He looks supremely uncomfortable out there almost all game, rattled and off his rhythm, fighting off pucks and struggling mightily with rebounds and angles.

 

[LOGiK]

I think it's time to panic with Murray. They need to do something because this is what he was doing last year and this year tragedy isn't an excuse. Dude is atrocious af. Also that defense is so horribly coach. The players are fine. The coaching is just flat out ****. Gonch and Martin need to tighten that **** the **** up.

I can't believe I'm in a beautiful place and I sat and watched that ****. The only solace for me is that punk ass ***** McGregor got choked out like the little punk ass ***** that he is.

Send muzz to a shrink. Find a veteran back up to lean on. The guy ****ing sucks. He sucks. To say otherwise is ****ing cheating and lying to yourselves. Murray is ****ing horrible. At this point he's one of the worst number ones in the league. He's capable of better. The team needs to tighten up the defense but he also needs to be better. Much better than this.

Wow damn dood I was going to watch that fight later =/

 

[Pens x]

Wow damn dood I was going to watch that fight later =/

The aftermath of the fight was equally as entertaining.

 

[TNT87]

I hope the Penguins trade Kessel and re-sign Brassard next summer. You're not going to fix your defense without making systematic changes, so might as well try to make your forward group as deep as possible to compensate for that. Keeping Brassard as your 3C does more to help your 3 line attack than keeping Kessel does.

Does Brassard really want to stay on the team as a 3C though when he can be in the top 6 for any other team? I can't see him being content with that. I would love to be wrong though.

 

[EightyOne]

Does Brassard really want to stay on the team as a 3C though when he can be in the top 6 for any other team? I can't see him being content with that. I would love to be wrong though.

I'd say, if he gets points this year like a 2C and the Pens offer payment like a 2C, he would stay as a 3C.

But he isnt gonna stay if it is sacrificing his stat lines and thereby costing him money here or on the open market. It's just business, afterall.

He could have an ego that gets upset at seeing him on the third line, though. I haven't paid enough attention to him to know if THAT is a problem.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't even know what Murray's situation is like or how it plays out. Maybe he needs a mentor like Fleury to keep him steady and calm until he gets older?

I still call last season's performance a wash. The kid dealt with some **** that would've floored any one of us in a day to day job, let alone being the franchise goalie of a Cup chasing team.

As for his glove, it's bad. But every goalie has a weakness, nobody's perfect. The thing that's worried me is that he's lost his calmness, his control. When Murray was at his best he was the anti-Fleury; no rebounds, calm and collected, perfect technical and fundamental stuff like angles, never rattled. He looks supremely uncomfortable out there almost all game, rattled and off his rhythm, fighting off pucks and struggling mightily with rebounds and angles.

I think the one thing Fleury could provide Murray was sort of a mentor to turn to if he had any questions. Joking aside about Fleury's own struggles, he was a veteran who at least could relate to the pressures of being a #1 goalie. If Murray's struggling a bit and needs a quick chat, who's he going to turn to? The two guys with like 35 career games to their credit?

 

[LOGiK]

The aftermath of the fight was equally as entertaining.

Khabib had a pretty bad fight last fight, but that was the only fight I saw him struggle. The guy is the terminator. I don't think Connor will ever beat him. He's way too strong for Connor's celebrity punk ass.

I just dl the prelims and am working my way up to Khabib.
Did Connor through a sissy fit after losing? He is probably going to go ballistic meltdown the next few weeks after getting punked with a loss. I'd pay to see that!

 

[LOGiK]

I think it's time to panic with Murray. They need to do something because this is what he was doing last year and this year tragedy isn't an excuse. Dude is atrocious af. Also that defense is so horribly coach. The players are fine. The coaching is just flat out ****. Gonch and Martin need to tighten that **** the **** up.

I can't believe I'm in a beautiful place and I sat and watched that ****. The only solace for me is that punk ass ***** McGregor got choked out like the little punk ass ***** that he is.

Send muzz to a shrink. Find a veteran back up to lean on. The guy ****ing sucks. He sucks. To say otherwise is ****ing cheating and lying to yourselves. Murray is ****ing horrible. At this point he's one of the worst number ones in the league. He's capable of better. The team needs to tighten up the defense but he also needs to be better. Much better than this.

MY GOODNESS. Connor got beat down. B-E-A-T D-O-W-N

Edit:
Wow Khabib is a dirty scum bag.

 

[Peat]

Sprong doesn't need the puck on his stick to be the most effective. That's a big reason Geno-Phil is a combo I revile. They both need the puck on their stick to be driving the pace, pushing guys back and working the ice. If one has the puck, the other is just kinda floating around... Waiting. Sprong's got a one-timer, which is a huge step in the right direction for Geno's preference too. Sprong's been better away from the puck than Geno and Phil combined so far. /shrug

Not arguing with that at all. Was more laughing at how bad the other lines were tonight/saying I liked Line 4. I think they showed tonight why I thought it could work. They were good on the rush, solid in defence, cycled well and had a decent amount of skill.

Which isn't to say keep the gang together if there's a better place for Sprong up the line, but...

I don't think its with Geno. At least, not if Geno's going to float half the time and try to do everything the other half (and ignore the new kid all of it, which wouldn't be entirely unheard of). I agree with you reasoning with why Sprong would be good for Geno... but I'm kinda worried that Geno wouldn't be good for Sprong.

Now... it's doing the little things. They definitely carried over bad habits. This was one of the main reasons I wanted Riikola to play and a defender to sit. It's not so much Riikola, it's the idea that "Oh ****... I have to play for my job. I have to do the little things to win games for my team." That's what I wanted to see.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes the team does need a dose of fear.

The fact he has a lovely amount of poise and stick handling when we're struggling to break out of our zone doesn't hurt either.

I'm not a big X's and O's guy either, but I wouldn't try too hard to change what has won us what, 40 playoff games in the last 3 years? Adjustments, sure. But I'd at least consider the possibility that it's working out alright and we should maybe give it another shot, even if we have nights like this. Was the system the issue last year? I'd argue they ran out of gas.

We went years under Disco playing a system designed to cover up weaknesses. It was steady, but we never won with it. Sully is playing to our strengths instead. Maybe it needs some tweaks, at least in the regular season. But in general, I am always a fan of maximizing strengths over minimizing weaknesses.

For reals.

Sully's system has done us a hell of a lot more good than bad. Its a system that's pretty similar to other system that have had a decent amount of success too. Yes, it takes a lot of effort at times, but any team that isn't up for a lot of effort isn't winning the Cup.

We didn't lose last night because the guys struggled to play the system. We lost because they struggled to play period. Failing to make break outs when the pass doesn't connect is more on execution of skills than execution of system. Not skating hard enough to force good opportunities, not crowding the net... its effort and skill, not the system. The system makes the problems worse but that's the difference between losing 5-1 and 3-1. The side will still lose games pretty much any time players make individual executions like that regardless of system.

Sure, everything has its ending, and the sight of the team getting out-cared in Game 2 against bottom dwellers is real sobering, but I don't think the team should meekly give up on something that's brought them more success than not. Lets see how the team looks 10-20 games in, then lets trade some guys if we still need a kickstart.

Firing Sully or have him go away from what makes us win Cups should be a long way down the list.

 

[Icarium]

Would be nice if these games where almost the entire team fails to show up happened a lot more rarely.

Phil and Geno are so frustrating together. They have games where they have incredible chemistry and also games where they seem like they not only play together for the first time but also can't stand each other. It's mystifying. And so is Sullivan's decision to keep rolling the same lines while we were getting slaughtered out there.

We need 2016 Murray to come back ASAP or the forwards to actually start playing defence consistently. Preferably both. But probably neither will happen any time and soon and will keep on with these rollercoaster run and gun games which can be fun when the offence clicks but mean we will need even more dumb luck than in 2017 to have a shot at the Cup.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Lol, you're exposing yourself again on that unbiased thing.

And again, your words were about playing harder and making more plays in dzone, not about mistakes.
"He made a number of nice plays backchecking", you know, Malkin did too, and he's generally more engaged/involved on backcheck, so he's prone to make more mistakes. I'm not saying that Malkin didn't have a bad game, of course he did,it's just that Kessel wasn't playing harder in dzone(or any other zone) and making more plays in dzone.

I don't know, maybe Phil has special assigments compared to other wingers, but he seems like the least involved player on the team, when it comes to defensive play. No doubt he can make nice plays everywhere on the ice.

"So what I said was dead on accurate"
Maybe if one was without some sort of detractor specs.

Kessel outworked Malkin last night and played much more responsibly in his own zone, you can make all the excuses you want for Malkin, but it won’t change what happened. You are making up silly excuses and some convoluted reasoning to make yourself feel better about Malkin’s performance.

I know you always get offended when others criticize Malkin, and you have had a transparent agenda agt Kessel for quite some time now, so there is no reasoning with someone like you.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'd also like to see them tweak the defense pairings. I don't think Jack Johnson is a good safety net for Maatta's quicksand skating ability, nor do I think Maatta's quicksand skating ability can cover for Johnson's rover style.

I suppose the problem is Schultz is the only other option (other than breaking up Letang/Dumoulin), and he's not exactly a stud defensively either.

Maybe I'll just revise my post to state I don't like the make-up of our defense.

If Riikola isn’t fool’s gold and can transition the puck like he did in pre-season, that will have quite an enormous impact on their defense.

They really need three guys back there on each pair that can skate and quickly transition the puck, to make Sullivan’s system work.

Rig and Maatta definitely don’t fit the system, but if they are paired with a good skating puck mover, it’s ok. Schultz isn’t exactly a guy that can carry a pair with his skating and transition game, but if he’s on your bottom pair, that’s not bad.

JJ is in the same boat. Doesn’t look like a guy you want being the main man with the puck back there for your top four.

Basically, if Riikola is the gem he looks like, you need him eating minutes on your second pair and playing the Letang role carrying the puck... then you get by with a Schultz or JJ carrying the load for the third pair.

I don’t see any other way it works for the way this system is designed, barring a trade.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Murray looks awful. He's flopping around like a soft ****. That's not his game. Where is that calm, controlled goaltender he used to be? The guy that could allow a few goals early on and then shut it right down?

The defence isn't helping either and I don't mean just the defensemen. Turnovers, soft play, standing around, no back pressure from the forwards. It's just a hot mess right now. A few individuals playing well but not as a team, they're not supporting each other, or at least not trying very hard to do so.

The Habs on the other hand were playing as a team. They played very well.

 

[Burn]

Some thoughts after being 3 rows from the ice after both games...

Murray has that fault but all of these goals are more about the team defense. Any goalie would get picked apart with that many shots coming from prime scoring areas. All of these goals are coming from the middle of the ice... Shut that down already.

I really hate Malkin and Kesssel together. Both need puck getters for them and Hags can only cover so much.

I think hes having a problem fitting in but Jack Johnson has been brutal in these games. So many seriously flawed habits that I'm not sure he can shake. Weird stuff like doing a 360 away from the play only to try and catch up.

Brassard hasn't been bad but needs help offensively. Wish him and Kessel would click.

Malkin has been awful. Way to many give a ways and slacker tendancies.

This team is flat out Paul Martin soft. There's no separation of players from pucks and no churning of legs for pace. I thought the Caps were just bigger and heavier but no... The Pens put a pack of dandelions on the ice.

The Pens are one dimensional... Speed and that's it. They're not even good with the puck... They chip and chase up ice and try to beat teams with role player ugly hockey. You would think a team with Crosby and Malkin would keep the puck and set up plays... But nope... Chip up ice and throw everything on net.

Kessel is Kessel. No one expects him to turn into prime Kunitz away from the puck but do things offensive players do... Carry the puck... Get some shots off... Do anything...

Its Oct and I'm sure they'll get better but there's not a hint of a good team.

 

[EightyOne]

You almost don't even want Riikola in because the whole thing is a shit show. What would he learn? Bad decision making and flipping pucks into the NZ?

f*** that 'development' path.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

If Riikola isn’t fool’s gold and can transition the puck like he did in pre-season, that will have quite an enormous impact on their defense.

They really need three guys back there on each pair that can skate and quickly transition the puck, to make Sullivan’s system work.

Rig and Maatta definitely don’t fit the system, but if they are paired with a good skating puck mover, it’s ok. Schultz isn’t exactly a guy that can carry a pair with his skating and transition game, but if he’s on your bottom pair, that’s not bad.

JJ is in the same boat. Doesn’t look like a guy you want being the main man with the puck back there for your top four.

Basically, if Riikola is the gem he looks like, you need him eating minutes on your second pair and playing the Letang role carrying the puck... then you get by with a Schultz or JJ carrying the load for the third pair.

I don’t see any other way it works for the way this system is designed, barring a trade.

Problem with our D-corps and Riikola when seeing him in the pre-season is that he is Letang in that I expect him to be the one to handle transition and offense on his pair AND make sure defense is taken care of. With his partner basically just being there...

Can't fathom the money we pay for D-men who all needs sheltering. Letang being the only one currently earning his paycheck.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

I'm at least mildly surprised that they yielded 11 goals in their first two games.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Some things after digesting last night:

1) DeSmith should get the next start.

2) Riiks in, Rig out. Rock a Riiks-JJ or Riiks-Schultz(and feed Olli-JJ easier minutes) 2nd pair. Just experiment and figure out your top 4 using Dumo/Tang + 2 of Riiks/Olli/JJ/Schultz(Just don't put JJ and Schultz together). You can even break up Dumo-Tang. Just find a consistent top 4.

3) Pucks chaser/getter duos + new RW's:

Jake-Sid-Sprong/Simon
Hags-G-Horny
Rust-Brass-Phil
Cullen-Sheahan-Grant

That is all.
I'm playing Grant cuz they wanna focus on cleaning up their own end(but i'm fine with Sprong/Simon with Lines1/4 too). He may be able to help.
Simon or Sprong get some healthy snacks that aren't nachos.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Problem with our D-corps and Riikola when seeing him in the pre-season is that he is Letang in that I expect him to be the one to handle transition and offense on his pair AND make sure defense is taken care of. With his partner basically just being there...

Can't fathom the money we pay for D-men who all needs sheltering. Letang being the only one currently earning his paycheck.

This is all speculative about what I saw in preseason, but I think Maatta would be a good partner for Riikola. Maatta could hang back and let Riikola do the heavy lifting, and if he does make bad pinches, Riikola showed impressive recovery speed.

Letang Dumo
Riikola Maatta
JJ Schultz

That makes the most sense for me. Schultz isn’t what I consider to be a top puck mover, but I feel that would be one of the better third pairs in the league.

It also gives you your best puck movers playing in the top four, and two capable guys in transition on the third pair.

 

[Angrrus]

I'd be less alarmed/annoyed by our defensive play if this wasn't the norm for the past two years. Serious issues with defensive hockey on this club.

After a game in which you scored all of ONE goal it's kinda irrelevant to lament about defense.

 

[Angrrus]

I don't even know what to say. Lackadaisical, brain dead, no hunger, no effort, no support, no battle level, no excuse. Reminds me of last season.

I hope Sully rips them. Enough "good cop"

My fear is they tuned him out long time ago. This team is out of control and ignores everything that is being said to them.