Post-Game Talk: Pens vs. Habs - Error 404. Invalid Effort.

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Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Is he healthy? Wasn't one of the problems with him and why he didn't play much in Winnipeg because of health?

He didn't play much in Winnipeg because Hellebuyck had a near Vezina caliber season. He did have some injury issues, which caused him to have a poor year last year, but I really don't have a good reason for why he's not signed right now. There are worse goalies in the NHL today than him.
 

Coach Travis

Back2Back!!!
Jun 29, 2005
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Here’s the thing about “big” saves. They’re the product of either luck and/or the shooter not executing. I’ve watched Greg Johnson, a career “tweener” between the AHL & NHL practice and he can go bar-down just inside the far post while skating 9/10. The only thing that keeps NHL goalies from having to face perfectly placed shots is either the puck not settling down or, what is more often the case, defensive pressure.
 

Coach Travis

Back2Back!!!
Jun 29, 2005
15,200
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Thunder Bay, Ontario
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This goes beyond this season. Last year to start he looked off. Then his dad passed and he was hot and cold and then just mediocre and cold. This year he looks so shaky and distracted. His movements are apprehensive, he's just not focused. He needs more time with Buckley and to do that he needs a backup he can rely on.

No offense to DeSmith, but he's not that guy.
He doesn’t look any of those adjectives to my eye. He’s just not getting any defensive support. He’s making pretty much 95% of the routine stops. If you break it down goal by goal, I’d say the Orpik goal was weak and the wrap-around by Hudon is one he should’ve had.
 
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EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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This goes beyond this season. Last year to start he looked off. Then his dad passed and he was hot and cold and then just mediocre and cold. This year he looks so shaky and distracted. His movements are apprehensive, he's just not focused. He needs more time with Buckley and to do that he needs a backup he can rely on.

No offense to DeSmith, but he's not that guy.

Case in point. The wrap around he gave up last night.

You can tell he knew what was happening.

But he couldn't react. By the time he tried, he damn near lost his balance and his leg was so far inside the goal, he couldn't close off the far post.

It was such a...???really??? goal.

Not to mention the bloppity bloop goals he's letting in and god awful rebound control.

He's better than this. He was a wall.
 
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ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,022
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Pittsburgh
And I don't get why people are hating Sully, let alone say Bylsma had them ready to go (Emp).

When I watch the Pens, I see a team that easily could win the Cup. When I saw the team under Bylsma I saw masked fundamental mistakes and something that would affect the team when it mattered the most. So it was nice to get regular season wins but the end result (almost identical to the Steelers) was basically written in stone.

The stuff Sully talks about makes perfect sense at it is the issue with the Pens. The story makes sense as to why they are making these mistakes. Last year, everyone who was around the team was talking about how they are running on fumes. Legit sources like Crosby's father, Bourque, Mears, Lavoie, and just so many close to the team from radio personalities to writers. It made sense for everything they did.

This year they have carryover. It's not shocking. It definitely needs fixed and they have the pieces to fix it. But let's not act like this core group of players aren't to blame. They made this mistake with every coach. They lost focus with MT. They lost focus with their all time favorite Dan Bylsma. They lost their focus with MJ. They haven't fully lost their focus with Sully but they sure as hell are trending that way. Sully's job is to reconnect them to do the right things. It's not an easy job to a team that has 3 Cups with their core. But look at LA/Chicago or teams that made it to the Finals and now aren't anywhere close. It's a tough game to stay at that top level.

So i'm going to patiently wait to see what happens. I think they earned that and deserve it. But I wish our fans would realize just how difficult it is to stay on top.
 

pucky

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
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Murray has regressed and the Pitt. D is pretty bad. I suspect fans don't want to admit/believe it, though.
 

pucky

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
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And I don't get why people are hating Sully, let alone say Bylsma had them ready to go (Emp).

When I watch the Pens, I see a team that easily could win the Cup. When I saw the team under Bylsma I saw masked ...
I don't know what you are seeing but I don't see that. Their D is pretty bad - running around, fumbling. Murray has regressed, too. He's not as good as he was even a couple of years ago. Does he have a goalie coach?
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
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Pittsburgh
Murray has regressed and the Pitt. D is pretty bad. I suspect fans don't want to admit/believe it, though.
there is not a single person on the planet who won't admit that our D is playing like a big turd :laugh:

I don't know what you are seeing but I don't see that. Their D is pretty bad - running around, fumbling. Murray has regressed, too. He's not as good as he was even a couple of years ago. Does he have a goalie coach?

This team lost a close series to the eventual Cup winners last year. That was with an injured Malkin and Brassard, whatever was up with Kessel, and Letang playing the worst hockey of his career coming off of neck surgery. So yeah the team isn't perfect, but it was a cup contender last year and now it's better.
 

pucky

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
8,079
172
Is he healthy? Wasn't one of the problems with him and why he didn't play much in Winnipeg because of health?
It was speculated on CBC, HNIC, that there is concern and reluctance to sign him/go after him because of his injury history and questions about future health. Also, there was speculation that there was an offer but he declined it (probably League min. or low term).
 

pucky

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
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there is not a single person on the planet who won't admit that our D is playing like a big turd :laugh:
This team lost a close series to the eventual Cup winners last year. That was with an injured Malkin and Brassard, whatever was up with Kessel, and Letang playing the worst hockey of his career coming off of neck surgery. So yeah the team isn't perfect, but it was a cup contender last year and now it's better.
How is it better?
 

pucky

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
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I am a huge critic of the Pens D. But, the last two games explain basically nothing about it given how poor the forward’s defense has been.
Wasn't that another issue or concern (even according to fans) the last couple of years? I seem to recall fans criticizing the defensive play of forwards? For e.g., Kessel and Malkin, are two names that spring to mind.
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
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Wasn't that another issue or concern (even according to fans) the last couple of years? I seem to recall fans criticizing the defensive play of forwards? For e.g., Kessel and Malkin, are two names that spring to mind.
yes. And we still won two Cups on the backs of those guys.
 

pucky

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
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Malkin, Letang, and Brassard are healthy. Cullen and Sprong are way better than Kuhn and Rowney.
Isn't this something you look at when the playoffs are starting? How will this situation be then?
 

EliteGoaltending

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Jan 7, 2016
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Kessel outworked Malkin last night and played much more responsibly in his own zone, you can make all the excuses you want for Malkin, but it won’t change what happened. You are making up silly excuses and some convoluted reasoning to make yourself feel better about Malkin’s performance.

I know you always get offended when others criticize Malkin, and you have had a transparent agenda agt Kessel for quite some time now, so there is no reasoning with someone like you.
You're paraphrasing things again. You original phrase was different and simply not true.

And how I'm "making up silly excuses and some convoluted reasoning to make yourself feel better about Malkin’s performance" when I said it myself a few times that Malkin had a bad game yesterderday and that he made mistakes. Huh?

There's quite a few posters out there with agenda against him. I have no problem with fair criticizm.

And no, I don't have an agenda against Kessel. I think he's an elite goalscorer and great playmaker, but also that his game away from the puck is almost non-existent. I think I may have agenda against your agenda for Kessel(or your assertion of his D game or game away from the puck in general), that's all. :)

I think Kessel's game away from the puck is the main reason they never play him with Crosby. If they gave him like 15-20 games with Sid, I think this board would be flipping the tables in rage against Phil, maybe you too.
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
75,534
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Pittsburgh
Isn't this something you look at when the playoffs are starting? How will this situation be then?
true. So lets compare to the start of last season then. We are WAY WAY WAY better than we started last year. We had freaking Carter Rowney and Greg McKegg at 3C and 4C last year at this time :laugh: So last year we improved those positions, this season lets see what moves JR makes.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,486
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San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Wasn't that another issue or concern (even according to fans) the last couple of years? I seem to recall fans criticizing the defensive play of forwards? For e.g., Kessel and Malkin, are two names that spring to mind.

Sullivan knows this. There is nothing he can do to make the Pens play a more complete game aside from going more defensive with the system which with our fire power would be moronic.

The Leafs had a similar two game outing. Montreal has gotten points in the last two games. Wait until November to start saying we won’t overcome these issues.
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
75,534
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Pittsburgh
Sullivan knows this. There is nothing he can do to make the Pens play a more complete game aside from going more defensive with the system which with our fire power would be moronic.

The Leafs had a similar two game outing. Montreal has gotten points in the last two games. Wait until November to start saying we won’t overcome these issues.
yep, this is our team. Disco and MJ tried to cover these weaknesses and didn't win shit (Disco won using Therrien's system basically). Sully is trying to exploit our strengths instead. Sure, when it goes badly the weaknesses are exposed. But when it goes well, we win back to back Cups.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,530
21,073
Maybe i'm not understanding your post, but I don't get why people keep saying this regarding the Montreal game. Geno's mistakes had nothing to do with Kessel tonight. Anyone could have been on his line and his mistakes were still happening. That was all on Geno.

Unless you aren't disagreeing with that.

I'm not saying Geno's mistakes were anyone else's fault. I just think they both like to freewheel and take a lot of chances with little to no consequences (superstar talents need some leeway, of course), and that can lead to pretty fast-and-loose hockey which, when it's not working, can feel like the game's gone off the rails.

It's why I like these two on different lines.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
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You're paraphrasing things again. You original phrase was different and simply not true.

And how I'm "making up silly excuses and some convoluted reasoning to make yourself feel better about Malkin’s performance" when I said it myself a few times that Malkin had a bad game yesterderday and that he made mistakes. Huh?

There's quite a few posters out there with agenda against him. I have no problem with fair criticizm.

And no, I don't have an agenda against Kessel. I think he's an elite goalscorer and great playmaker, but also that his game away from the puck is almost non-existent. I think I may have agenda against your agenda for Kessel(or your assertion of his D game or game away from the puck in general), that's all. :)

I think Kessel's game away from the puck is the main reason they never play him with Crosby. If they gave him like 15-20 games with Sid, I think this board would be flipping the tables in rage against Phil, maybe you too.

My original statement was that Kessel was outworking Malkin in his own end. Being on your assignments and managing the puck are all parts of playing defense in your own end.

No matter how much you want to object to my statement, it will still be true. Malkin was responsible for three goals agt last night. Kessel was responsible for zero. Kessel was on his details last night and outworking Malkin in his own end, and the proof is there for anyone that isn’t a Malkin fanboy.

And saying you haven’t had an agenda agt Kessel for quite some time is a flat out lie. I’m not buying what you are shoveling.
 

Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
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Geno tends to play simpler when he has simpler linemates. Probably like any other center. Put Hornqvist or Rust on his wing. At least then he’d have dump-in options when teams are stacking guys in the neutral zone.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,486
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San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Geno tends to play simpler when he has simpler linemates. Probably like any other center. Put Hornqvist or Rust on his wing. At least then he’d have dump-in options when teams are stacking guys in the neutral zone.

That is fine to say. But, simple plays like no pass to the center of the ice in your d-zone should not be made ever
 
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Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
49,342
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My original statement was that Kessel was outworking Malkin in his own end. Being on your assignments and managing the puck are all parts of playing defense in your own end.

No matter how much you want to object to my statement, it will still be true. Malkin was responsible for three goals agt last night. Kessel was responsible for zero. Kessel was on his details last night and outworking Malkin in his own end, and the proof is there for anyone that isn’t a Malkin fanboy.

And saying you haven’t had an agenda agt Kessel for quite some time is a flat out lie. I’m not buying what you are shoveling.
Kessel had his share of turnovers, they just, by luck, didn’t end up directly contributing to goals.

I think each had 3 neutral zone turnovers which is 2 too many even if you’re giving them leeway as superstars.
 
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Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
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Kessel had his share of turnovers, they just, by luck, didn’t end up directly contributing to goals.

I think each had 3 neutral zone turnovers which is 2 too many even if you’re giving them leeway as superstars.
Malkin also just watched two guys score instead of covering them.
 
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