Post-Game Talk: Pens vs. Habs - Error 404. Invalid Effort.

[Dipsy Doodle]

Never a dull moment when your 2 biggest wild card forwards are on the same line.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think it's time the club maybe brought in a veteran backup to at least spell Murray if he's struggling. Carrying two unproven kids as his backup isn't looking like the best decision, in retrospect.

Exactly.

 

[Coach Travis]

Never a dull moment when your 2 biggest wild card forwards are on the same line.

Malkin & Kessel have such an interesting dynamic. When they both come in off the rush and resort to swooping around the top of the circles and then our D arrive and then we've got like 4 guys at the point... Not a great situation. And you don't want either of the D to drive the net because we saw what that looks like last night to have Kessel & Malkin be the last 2 guys defending a rush.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it's time the club maybe brought in a veteran backup to at least spell Murray if he's struggling. Carrying two unproven kids as his backup isn't looking like the best decision, in retrospect.

I'd look into signing Mason to a 1 year deal, especially if he's willing to take near league minimum.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Oleksiak looks lost, Maatta looks slow and is struggling with decisions.

I’d prefer to replace them both, but it’s not happening. So you sit the raw guy.

The bolded is the part that's pissing me off the most about Maatta this season. I've come to terms with him being as slow as Hal Gill as long as his decision making is up to par. But this season, half the time he screws up it's related to poor decision making, not his actual speed.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I think Maatta's decision making issues stem directly from his physical limitations. He's facing speedy teams/players more and more as the NHL shifts and he's constantly second guessing himself and whether or not this or that is going to end up with him getting torched. It's a problem, man. His skating's just complete dogshit, and now (I personally think) it's having an effect on his decision making.

 

[Coach Travis]

Exactly.

You can't even tell if he's struggling because he's currently getting defensive coverage like it's an All-Star game. I know people want to say "Yeah but 11 goals in 2 games" as if that's the proof in the pudding but, look, we're accustomed to thinking goalies having a .900 SV% is just automatic. It's not. The second your D goes to shit and your forwards don't commit, goals go in. It's happened to Carey Price (and you could imagine how bad that was for him right after they traded Halak). It happened to Patrick Roy.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Maatta's best play has imo typically come when he wasn't expected to be the safety net on his line. When he starts hesitating, he's done. He just doesn't have the skating to make up for any amount of hesitation.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You can't even tell if he's struggling because he's currently getting defensive coverage like it's an All-Star game. I know people want to say "Yeah but 11 goals in 2 games" as if that's the proof in the pudding but, look, we're accustomed to thinking goalies having a .900 SV% is just automatic. It's not. The second your D goes to **** and your forwards don't commit, goals go in. It's happened to Carey Price (and you could imagine how bad that was for him right after they traded Halak). It happened to Patrick Roy. Murray's not absolved from it.

sure, a lot of it is on the team in front of him. But that said, he absolutely needs to make some more big saves like he used to. When is the last time we talked about him winning us a game? I don't want us to rely on that, but it would be nice to have it happen on occasion. His first two seasons, he had some HUGE saves that kept us in games.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'd look into signing Mason to a 1 year deal, especially if he's willing to take near league minimum.

Is he healthy? Wasn't one of the problems with him and why he didn't play much in Winnipeg because of health?

 

[Coach Travis]

For me, step 1 is getting our forwards to committing to not leaving the zone too quickly. We're not taking care of our own end first. Sure, having your forwards cheat on the breakout is going to lead to some nicer looking rushes here and there but turnovers end up being absolutely disastrous!

 

[Ugene Magic]

They just seem to be in the "I don't want to do what it takes to win yet" mode.

It is, after all, only two games into the season, and they haven't consistently played as a complete unit until game 4 of the preseason, so about 4 games now. I'd really not be all that worried about the forward group other than helping a defense corps with addition of better backtracking awareness and effort to do so.

I know there are set lines, and probably set F3's, and we know plays don't always go on set parameters, but that last guy in (F3) needs to be a bit more cautious. In likewise terms, the D-corps have to pressure/pinch more cautiously.

 

[Ogrezilla]

For me, step 1 is getting our forwards to committing to not leaving the zone too quickly. We're not taking care of our own end first. Sure, having your forwards cheat on the breakout is going to lead to some nicer looking rushes here and there but turnovers end up being absolutely disastrous!

and coming back properly in the first place. Malkin watched his guy score twice last night.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't disagree that Murray's getting absolutely nothing in the way of help from the team in front of him. That being said, he's still struggling mightily. He's the antithesis of the Murray we saw during the back to back Cups--even the second one where our defense was still pretty putrid. He's not calm, he's not relaxed, he's not handling rebounds well, and his fundamentals (angles, squaring up to the shooter, covering posts, etc.) are all over the place. He looks more like Fleury when he was struggling than what we saw from Murray in his first year in the NHL. He's not a bad goalie and he's got all the tools to be one of the best, he's just getting no help defensively (forwards as well as blueliners) and his confidence is absolutely shattered into a trillion pieces--which isn't going to be helped by said team in front of him.

But, he's gotta bounce back and right the ship. At the very least, put together a string of games where he's playing solid hockey. He doesn't have to win games by himself, or stand on his head for a 50-save shutout. He just has to regain his composure, and that cool, calm and collected style. He gave up bad goals when he was at his best, the difference was he shook them off instantly and came back stronger.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

and coming back properly in the first place. Malkin watched his guy score twice last night.

Malkin's playing like an 18 year old rookie who still has to learn how to play defense at the NHL level, not like a 32 year old 3-time Stanley Cup veteran who shouldn't be making these mistakes.

He's playing like annoying Geno right now.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't disagree that Murray's getting absolutely nothing in the way of help from the team in front of him. That being said, he's still struggling mightily. He's the antithesis of the Murray we saw during the back to back Cups--even the second one where our defense was still pretty putrid. He's not calm, he's not relaxed, he's not handling rebounds well, and his fundamentals (angles, squaring up to the shooter, covering posts, etc.) are all over the place. He looks more like Fleury when he was struggling than what we saw from Murray in his first year in the NHL. He's not a bad goalie and he's got all the tools to be one of the best, he's just getting no help defensively (forwards as well as blueliners) and his confidence is absolutely shattered into a trillion pieces--which isn't going to be helped by said team in front of him.

But, he's gotta bounce back and right the ship. At the very least, put together a string of games where he's playing solid hockey. He doesn't have to win games by himself, or stand on his head for a 50-save shutout. He just has to regain his composure, and that cool, calm and collected style. He gave up bad goals when he was at his best, the difference was he shook them off instantly and came back stronger.

Murray is the least of their worries if phase 1 (forwards) and 2 (Defensemen) of their defense is in shambles at the moment. No goalie is going to stop the bleeding if you are not playing right in front of them. It can't be a constant barrage everytime the opposition is in/gaining their own end.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Malkin's playing like an 18 year old rookie who still has to learn how to play defense at the NHL level, not like a 32 year old 3-time Stanley Cup veteran who shouldn't be making these mistakes.

He's playing like annoying Geno right now.

Funny, last year Kessel and Geno for the most part did their job earlier on. This year it's only Sid/Guentzel.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Murray is the least of their worries if phase 1 (forwards) and 2 (Defensemen) of their defense is in shambles at the moment. No goalie is going to stop the bleeding if you are not playing right in front of them. It can't be a constant barrage everytime the opposition is in/gaining their own end.

Yeah, I just don't agree. He's a big issue. I'm not saying he's playing in perfect conditions, but it's important to call a spade a spade. He's playing awful hockey, and is as big a problem with our team hemorrhaging goals as any one player on this team.

I think a lot of the defense of Murray comes from people afraid to discuss whether or not he's just not as good as we thought at first. There's a real worry that he's gonna turn out to be a flash in the pan, which I don't necessarily agree with and I happen to think he's just struggling mightily with an awful team in front of him, but it's there. He's certainly not doing anything to silence the very vocal, and most of the time justified, critics.

He's capable of playing very well despite the team in front of him. We won a Cup with an awful defensive team, and he was a huge reason for that. So as much as the conditions aren't ideal, he's fully capable of winning games and putting forth strong showings. He just hasn't for a while.

 

[Peat]

sure, a lot of it is on the team in front of him. But that said, he absolutely needs to make some more big saves like he used to. When is the last time we talked about him winning us a game? I don't want us to rely on that, but it would be nice to have it happen on occasion. His first two seasons, he had some HUGE saves that kept us in games.

Was huge in some of the Philly playoff games. Was also bad in some of them too mind.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Was huge in some of the Philly playoff games. Was also bad in some of them too mind.

I'd have to think the volatility of the team defense in front of him gets into his head. I think the team settling down should help him settle down. Here's hoping

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah, I just don't agree. He's a big issue. I'm not saying he's playing in perfect conditions, but it's important to call a spade a spade. He's playing awful hockey, and is as big a problem with our team hemorrhaging goals as any one player on this team.

I think a lot of the defense of Murray comes from people afraid to discuss whether or not he's just not as good as we thought at first. There's a real worry that he's gonna turn out to be a flash in the pan, which I don't necessarily agree with and I happen to think he's just struggling mightily with an awful team in front of him, but it's there. He's certainly not doing anything to silence the very vocal, and most of the time justified, critics.

Here's what I see, I see the team leaving him out to dry just like in the past for MAF. So I can agree he needs to address his own inadequate play, but that's very hard to have that confidence when your team isn't being consistent. Not even close to being consistent other than ignoring defense altogether.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You can't even tell if he's struggling because he's currently getting defensive coverage like it's an All-Star game. I know people want to say "Yeah but 11 goals in 2 games" as if that's the proof in the pudding but, look, we're accustomed to thinking goalies having a .900 SV% is just automatic. It's not. The second your D goes to **** and your forwards don't commit, goals go in. It's happened to Carey Price (and you could imagine how bad that was for him right after they traded Halak). It happened to Patrick Roy.

This goes beyond this season. Last year to start he looked off. Then his dad passed and he was hot and cold and then just mediocre and cold. This year he looks so shaky and distracted. His movements are apprehensive, he's just not focused. He needs more time with Buckley and to do that he needs a backup he can rely on.

No offense to DeSmith, but he's not that guy.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Here's what I see, I see the team leaving him out to dry just like in the past for MAF. So I can agree he needs to address his own inadequate play, but that's very hard to have that confidence when your team isn't being consistent. Not even close to being consistent other than ignoring defense altogether.

It's a team effort. One guy doesn't give up this many goals.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Here's what I see, I see the team leaving him out to dry just like in the past for MAF. So I can agree he needs to address his own inadequate play, but that's very hard to have that confidence when your team isn't being consistent. Not even close to being consistent other than ignoring defense altogether.

Yeah, I'm not saying he's in a fantastic environment for a young goalie trying to pick his game up off the floor. But to see people constantly putting him off to the side while they (rightfully) go on about the team in front of him doesn't do the entire picture justice, imo. Murray's as much at fault for this team's struggles GA-wise as anyone. Yeah, the defensive effort in front of him is laughable, but he's done well in that scenario before. Realistic or not, fair or not, he's gotta fix his game just as much as any single player on this team does. He's been bad these first couple of games, and while he's not getting help defensively, it's not all the team in front of him either.

 

[ColePens]

Never a dull moment when your 2 biggest wild card forwards are on the same line.

Maybe i'm not understanding your post, but I don't get why people keep saying this regarding the Montreal game. Geno's mistakes had nothing to do with Kessel tonight. Anyone could have been on his line and his mistakes were still happening. That was all on Geno.

Unless you aren't disagreeing with that.