Post-Game Talk: |Pens vs Devil| loss | Be nice if our bottom 6 was even close to useful

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Just throw away a player that cost TWO first round picks?
Very penguin way of doing things.

This team has to stop playing the sunk cost game someday soon.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

And of course the same f**king lines lol…Sullivan doubling down when questioned…let’s hope at least Jarry is back for good

Inarguably the worst line in hockey still a thing

Sully: "They're due for a good game anytime now"

 

[vodeni]

And of course the same f**king lines lol…Sullivan doubling down when questioned…let’s hope at least Jarry is back for good

this coach is cooked, there is nothing left but mush between ears, and visceral reaction on flipping the bird to everyone..
At least put L2 in defensive face off situation, they are way better equipped defending when not in transition, Geno is as good as JC and Zucker and Rust should be better than Kappy and McGinn in battling the walls and transitioning forward...Give L3 way more OZ starts and give them our best Dman to hold the blue line to see if they can keep the puck in OZ for a little bit longer and not kill the momentum...I mean if you were this stubborn to keep them like this at least change their deployment a little bit to minimize the harm

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

this coach is cooked, there is nothing left but mush between ears, and visceral reaction on flipping the bird to everyone..
At least put L2 in defensive face off situation, they are way better equipped defending when not in transition, Geno is as good as JC and Zucker and Rust should be better than Kappy and McGinn in battling the walls and transitioning forward...Give L3 way more OZ starts and give them our best Dman to hold the blue line to see if they can keep the puck in OZ for a little bit longer and not kill the momentum...I mean if you were this stubborn to keep them like this at least change their deployment a little bit to minimize the harm

It's clear as day and has been for years that Sullivan has absolutely zero belief or trust in Malkin regardless of his line setup in defensive situations even over the burned out husk of Jeff Carter. And many fans even nod solemnly in agreeance.

 

[LOGiK]

This team has to stop playing the sunk cost game someday soon.

Stuck between being the (miss ya) degenX era and the crosby / malkin superstar era.
One is quickly ending, and the other is quickly returning.
They know it and probably are terrified of it.

 

[vodeni]

It's clear as day and has been for years that Sullivan has absolutely zero belief or trust in Malkin regardless of his line setup in defensive situations even over the burned out husk of Jeff Carter. And many fans even nod solemnly in agreeance.

case in point: Geno is pretty much automatic on Face Offs on his backhand especially when the stakes are high. I bet he wins over 80% of those. Sid I swear loses majority of those ruining our PP since our zone entrance is clusterf*** as we all know. They experimented with that in the preseason and beginning of the season and it worked perfectly and then they stopped. What would be the reason for that, I'll let anyone figure for themselves, but thats just another of those things to show how this coach never ever adjust unless its rediculously late. (Like playing Janko for 80 games and scratch him in playoffs without giving anyone chance to work this out during the season; he is doing the same shit again)

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

case in point: Geno is pretty much automatic on Face Offs on his backhand especially when the stakes are high. I bet he wins over 80% of those. Sid I swear loses majority of those ruining our PP since our zone entrance is clusterf*** as we all know. They experimented with that in the preseason and beginning of the season and it worked perfectly and then they stopped. What would be the reason for that, I'll let anyone figure for themselves, but thats just another of those things to show how this coach never ever adjust unless its rediculously late. (Like playing Janko for 80 games and scratch him in playoffs without giving anyone chance to work this out during the season; he is doing the same shit again)

Malkin has shown time and again that if the team and coach places trust in him that he will almost always deliver. He's always been a high stakes kind of player. Hence his consistent all-around performances in the playoffs. Sullivan seemed to mostly understand this at one point. Then again he used to understand a lot of things he's evidently since forgotten or is simply too "smart" to have to bother with, anymore.

 

[Icarium]

Sullisma thought process probably goes like this:
Bergeron is great at winning faceoffs. So is Carter. Therefore Carter must be a great shutdown center since Bergeron is one. QED.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sullisma thought process probably goes like this:
Bergeron is great at winning faceoffs. So is Carter. Therefore Carter must be a great shutdown center since Bergeron is one. QED.

The amount of hand-wringing invested in friggin' faceoffs is kinda pathetic TBH.

CRITICAL faceoffs (meaning like a small handful every game) are important. That's it.

 

[Icarium]

The amount of hand-wringing invested in friggin' faceoffs is kinda pathetic TBH.

Indeed. Especially when your "shutdown" line is probably going to lose the puck about five seconds after winning the face off anyway.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Indeed. Especially when your "shutdown" line is probably going to lose the puck about five seconds after winning the face off anyway.

Hahaha... thank you. I feel like I literally mutter this to myself like ten times a game.

"Hey great job winning that faceoff Carts. Good thing you immediately turned it over!"

I lump OMGFACEAWEVZ into the same mostly-worthless group as "PK specialists."

 

[HandshakeLine]

Indeed. Especially when your "shutdown" line is probably going to lose the puck about five seconds after winning the face off anyway.

look, you want the great Jeff Carter to do something more, you'll just simply have to give him more ice time.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

look, you want the great Jeff Carter to do something more, you'll just simply have to give him more ice time.

My favorite Sullivan faceplant to date was probably when Crosby got brained and ol Mikey went straight to his boy to fill in only to get burned in comical fashion like immediately then shrugged and did it again for the same result.

It really is true dude could just start shooting on his own net and Sully would tussle his hair and say "Awwww what a scamp! Get back out there, big guy!"

Then again he did the same dumb shit to disastrous results with JJ so I have no idea why I was surprised.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

look, you want the great Jeff Carter to do something more, you'll just simply have to give him more ice time.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

In fairness here - you can make a case for his usage and his confidence- sure.....but at some point players have to adjust to systems and teams....and Kappy, when given an opportunity, completely lacks any creativity or danger whatsoever. Like, when he's 1 v 1, rushing, or has players cutting to the net (Carter) - all he does is skate hard to the wall and pass behind him whether anyone is there or not. Or he'll skate below the net and hold the puck on the board. He's not going for one timers or trying to generate. That stuff is on him.

This isn't all on Sully or the system. If he showed ANY glimpse whatosever of being dangerous offensively I'd say give him a shot in the top 6 - but I'd sooner reward O'Connor at this point. Kappy needs a new team more than anyone else here.

The Pens were expecting Kessel-lite and instead got McGinn at his absolute best that he hasn't even been/done here yet.

Kap needs to focus on scoring goals, putting as many shots on net as possible, only 68 shots so far this season. That's for a guy they were considering top six material, he should watch Rakell because he could totally be that version. He's been doing some recently, shots, but he's still not having the success he's been hoping for.

Kap needs to go to a team that can let him be more, more PP time and such.

I'd say Kap nuked Kap. How many times has he been tried with Malkin?

Yeah so..you both just ignored his first season and how he played in Toronto to how he's been destroyed here. Lol.

No point in arguing with blokes that ignore proof.

 

[molon labe]

Yeah so..you both just ignored his first season and how he played in Toronto to how he's been destroyed here. Lol.

No point in arguing with blokes that ignore proof.

Don't think anyone is ignoring that. But it's quite silly to look at an athelete's performance from several years ago and play mental gymnastics on why that isn't the same situation today.

Do we do that with Carter? Or Dumo? Why is it okay for some players to fall off but not others? Only because Kappy is younger is he still a threat offensively? I mean, he MIGHT be...if he goes a to a team that has worse top 6 forwards and is given tons of chances he'd certainly score more - but he won't make the Penguins better by getting into OUR top 6 because he's not better than any of the forwards up there, not offensively or defensively. If he can't learn another role it's time for him to go. Either the org was convinced he could - or HE was convinced he could because they chose to re-sign him to play in the bottom 6. He just isn't cut out for this team.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah so..you both just ignored his first season and how he played in Toronto to how he's been destroyed here. Lol.

No point in arguing with blokes that ignore proof.

Sure, but where did that Kap go? I mean, you can't ignore last year trying so hard and nothing. I think you are totally ignoring consistencies/inconsistencies.

But they should totally keep pounding that round peg in a square hole, right?

Fit is not there, and they have tried over and over with him.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Don't think anyone is ignoring that. But it's quite silly to look at an athelete's performance from several years ago and play mental gymnastics on why that isn't the same situation today.

Do we do that with Carter? Or Dumo? Why is it okay for some players to fall off but not others? Only because Kappy is younger is he still a threat offensively? I mean, he MIGHT be...if he goes a to a team that has worse top 6 forwards and is given tons of chances he'd certainly score more - but he won't make the Penguins better by getting into OUR top 6 because he's not better than any of the forwards up there, not offensively or defensively. If he can't learn another role it's time for him to go. Either the org was convinced he could - or HE was convinced he could because they chose to re-sign him to play in the bottom 6. He just isn't cut out for this team.

Well the examples you provided aren't really helping your case. Dumo and Carter are past their primes. Kap should be entering his. Kap should be getting BETTER, not worse

Which ties into the question: what player that we've acquired in the past few seasons where you can say "oh this person got better"?

Schultz is probably the only person that comes to mind and that was like 5+ seasons ago.

 

[Zbynek]

1. It's not a competition between Hextall and Sully. People are arguing like it's one's fault and not the other. Both of these guys are absolutely sucking balls right now. Sully refusing to stray from his sticktoit-ivness. Hextall not doing shit while NYR scoops up Tarasenko, Mikkola, Motte. Both of these guys are f***ing losers. You can't excuse one for the other's shortcomings.

2. It's abundantly clear by now the 3rd line is among the worst in the league. (All of these guys were brought to you by Sleepy, btw, though again this isn't a pissing contest). Carter is past his expiry date, Kapanen experiment didn't work in Pittsburgh, McGinn is massively hot or cold. So F***ing do something you cowards. Scratch Carter, waive Kapanen, do something, at least try something, you have nothing to lose at this point.

3. I wonder how much of all this mess comes down to FSG and their complacency - their lack of interest to actually shake things up, instead choosing to ride out the core to sell jerseys and season tickets. Rutherford misplaced some futures, sure, but there was no doubting his engagement and activity with other league GMs. This org hasn't done jack shit since the draft+UFA deadline. Things have noticeably changed since the FSG change.

 

[Ugene Magic]

1. It's not a competition between Hextall and Sully. People are arguing like it's one's fault and not the other. Both of these guys are absolutely sucking balls right now. Sully refusing to stray from his sticktoit-ivness. Hextall not doing shit while NYR scoops up Tarasenko, Mikkola, Motte. Both of these guys are f***ing losers. You can't excuse one for the other's shortcomings.

2. It's abundantly clear by now the 3rd line is among the worst in the league. (All of these guys were brought to you by Sleepy, btw, though again this isn't a pissing contest). Carter is past his expiry date, Kapanen experiment didn't work in Pittsburgh, McGinn is massively hot or cold. So F***ing do something you cowards. Scratch Carter, waive Kapanen, do something, at least try something, you have nothing to lose at this point.

3. I wonder how much of all this mess comes down to FSG and their complacency - their lack of interest to actually shake things up, instead choosing to ride out the core to sell jerseys and season tickets. Rutherford misplaced some futures, sure, but there was no doubting his engagement and activity with other league GMs. This org hasn't done jack shit since the draft+UFA deadline. Things have noticeably changed since the FSG change.

It's as if all these Bostonian's want the Pens to fail. Ha, since actually reading that out loud..... one could really misconstrued that as true... Got to help the local brands.

Where do your allegiance stand these days?

 

[Coastal Kev]

And of course the same f**king lines lol…Sullivan doubling down when questioned…let’s hope at least Jarry is back for good

This is why you don't give a hockey coach a guaranteed extension. He's untouchable and he knows it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sure, but where did that Kap go? I mean, you can't ignore last year trying so hard and nothing. I think you are totally ignoring consistencies/inconsistencies.

But they should totally keep pounding that round peg in a square hole, right?

Fit is not there, and they have tried over and over with him.

I've seen this trend with a lot of players under Sullivan. They're known for being a certain type of player and suddenly completely change and then when they leave they go back to their normal style. Like I showed you, Kapanen when he got here was that player you thought he was and he was that same one In Toronto. So what's change since? Coaching? Telling him to play a certain way?

He doesn't drive the net, he doesn't race up the ice anymore, he barely shoots, he's being told to play a physical grinder game and that he needs to engage more in that area and they changed a player we needed to be selfish with shooting into another plug.

Gee I wonder who likes that sort?

Tanner Pearson was a solid player for us but Sullivan misused the shit out of him as well. Look at McCann In Seattle being utilized the way we are with Zucker, imagine that. Look, a player that has played a certain way for years on a team and then when he first gets here and is suddenly different to the point where he's mentally struggling and questioning himself, that isn't a player changing, it's a player being told to play a certain way to change what he's been playing as for most of his life.

That's like getting a f***ing Ferrari and using it like an F150.

Don't think anyone is ignoring that. But it's quite silly to look at an athelete's performance from several years ago and play mental gymnastics on why that isn't the same situation today.

Do we do that with Carter? Or Dumo? Why is it okay for some players to fall off but not others? Only because Kappy is younger is he still a threat offensively? I mean, he MIGHT be...if he goes a to a team that has worse top 6 forwards and is given tons of chances he'd certainly score more - but he won't make the Penguins better by getting into OUR top 6 because he's not better than any of the forwards up there, not offensively or defensively. If he can't learn another role it's time for him to go. Either the org was convinced he could - or HE was convinced he could because they chose to re-sign him to play in the bottom 6. He just isn't cut out for this team.

Dumoulin - he isn't playing poorly vs him playing his old way but not having that mobility anymore and lately he's been making less mistakes mostly because he's finally figuring out that he can't skate the way he used to and has adjusted.

If you think that's the same as changing a player's DNA to his game and saying it's his fault? Lol. I mean it's been a documented decline of what they've turned Kapanen into. And that's just 1 example. O'Connor has always shown flashes of doing well in a more offensive role but he's immediately shoved down to the 4th or sat because he won't play like a grinder first. I still laugh at the game where Drew scored a goal and Sullivan for some reason benched him. He showed chemistry with Kapanen and boom both seemingly were punished with their ice time.

You never asked yourself why every single player called up from wbs has never been used above the third line? We Mock Jeff Carter, rightfully so since age has really decimated his game, but you think any player with Carter is going to thrive? Like do you seriously think oh that's the player they'll learn from? I would seriously sit Carter and until Poehling is healthy, being Heinen back to C for that line. And I f***ing despise Heinen.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

BTW that game - they had Doc-Blue-Kap as the 4th line. Doc had a goal and Kap had 2 assists and both played 5mins and 7mins. The team blew a lead vs the Wings.

Imaging sitting a player that scores a goal and played well in his limited time and also the player that helped produce 2 goals to less than 8mins in the game.


"COACHING!" Nah obviously Doc and Kap's fault.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I've seen this trend with a lot of players under Sullivan. They're known for being a certain type of player and suddenly completely change and then when they leave they go back to their normal style. Like I showed you, Kapanen when he got here was that player you thought he was and he was that same one In Toronto. So what's change since? Coaching? Telling him to play a certain way?

He doesn't drive the net, he doesn't race up the ice anymore, he barely shoots, he's being told to play a physical grinder game and that he needs to engage more in that area and they changed a player we needed to be selfish with shooting into another plug.

Gee I wonder who likes that sort?

Tanner Pearson was a solid player for us but Sullivan misused the shit out of him as well. Look at McCann In Seattle being utilized the way we are with Zucker, imagine that. Look, a player that has played a certain way for years on a team and then when he first gets here and is suddenly different to the point where he's mentally struggling and questioning himself, that isn't a player changing, it's a player being told to play a certain way to change what he's been playing as for most of his life.

That's like getting a f***ing Ferrari and using it like an F150.

Kapanen isn't really being used any differently. He was a 3rd liner in Toronto and the only difference here is he's not used on the PK.

At some point, his raw talent has to take over. It has not improved, and he got plenty of tries in the top six considering they saw him as making that jump. Especially before Rakell got here.

This is not a miss use by the coach.