Post-Game Talk: |Pens vs Devil| loss | Be nice if our bottom 6 was even close to useful

[Gurglesons]

Is it possible the only reason out bottom 6 is so bad is because of Sullivan? Individually, they aren't bad players. Maybe Sully is THE problem

It’s not only possible. It’s been happening for years and people ignored it because players like McCann, Carter, and Rodrigues produced when we had injuries.

We’ve avoided having any major injuries to our top six so we are fully seeing what happens with Mike Sullivan’s system and the bottom six.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is it possible the only reason out bottom 6 is so bad is because of Sullivan? Individually, they aren't bad players. Maybe Sully is THE problem

"Maybe"?

 

[Gurglesons]

"Maybe"?

Well imagine what he could do with a bottom six and goaltending.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I remember doing some hockey reference browsing a bit ago and seeing the league leaders in a year where Jeff Carter was 2nd in the league in goals with like 45.

With the shot he has, at this point I think he needs to play 4th line wing. He should just stand in the low slot and look for a feed offensively and he should not be used in a defensive role.

Using him like the Pens have is baffling, especially from a coach who got to the dance by using waves of young fast guys in the bottom 6.

 

[Pens x]

Sully is so lost. Our team is more dysfunctional right now than the Pens in 2014.

Sullivan and Hextall are making Shero and Bylama look competent recently.

 

[Night Shift]

View attachment 653022

I didn't know the Leafs have Harry Connick Jr. They're really serious about this run.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Classic thing. When you win two cups and be successful, it becomes a concept that you will always be that. Idiotims.

Pens play slow. They’re capable of playing faster but the way they play is not quick strike. They barely leave their zone efficiently. That’s all coaching. A new coach that would utilize players differently would shock so many.

 

[LOGiK]

I remember doing some hockey reference browsing a bit ago and seeing the league leaders in a year where Jeff Carter was 2nd in the league in goals with like 45.

With the shot he has, at this point I think he needs to play 4th line wing. He should just stand in the low slot and look for a feed offensively and he should not be used in a defensive role.

Using him like the Pens have is baffling, especially from a coach who got to the dance by using waves of young fast guys in the bottom 6.

Sully is so lost. Our team is more dysfunctional right now than the Pens in 2014.

Sullivan and Hextall are making Shero and Bylama look competent recently.

Yeah. What a mess.
It's hard to accept this path they've taken after 16 and 2017.
What (penguin) youth players have came up and established themselves as NHLer's in the last 5 years?

 

[Gurglesons]

Sully is so lost. Our team is more dysfunctional right now than the Pens in 2014.

Sullivan and Hextall are making Shero and Bylama look competent recently.

One of these is true. Hextall has built a better top six than we ever saw in the Shero years outside of 2008.

Bottom six is pretty comparable to what we trotted out every year post 2012.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It’s not only possible. It’s been happening for years and people ignored it because players like McCann, Carter, and Rodrigues produced when we had injuries.

We’ve avoided having any major injuries to our top six so we are fully seeing what happens with Mike Sullivan’s system and the bottom six.

The thing to look at is those three produced in top 6 roles but were mostly dreadful in bottom 6 usage. In the case for McCann, he was never kept in a spot long enough to build chemistry, he was on a third line role when he started to finally look comfortable and then Sully would f*** it up by moving him to wing to center and wing again.

Sullivan used to preach about keeping pairs and then making someone interchangeable to allow for matching but he stopped matching after the second cup and the pairs thing only pertains to Sid and Geno now.

It’s sad to see DOC play a strong game and at best they moved him up with Carter. Like that was somehow in Sully’s mind as a reward.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

One of these is true. Hextall has built a better top six than we ever saw in the Shero years outside of 2008.

Bottom six is pretty comparable to what we trotted out every year post 2012.

I’m in the camp that thinks we do have a solid top 6 in comparison to the Shero years and even the bottom 6 is decent if the usage isn’t as bat shit. But definitely not comparable given we had Staal then.

I mean the real issues in the bottom 6 are the zone usage and Carter. I think if you sat Carter for a month and played Poehling or Blueger in his spot and one of them playing 4C and ease the usage from 88% dz starts which is f***ing bonkers, and see how they do.

Then it becomes the systems problems of a disjointed overall team defensive structure.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hextall landed Rakell. Sid, Geno, Jake, Rust and Zucker were all here when Hextall took over. He didn't build shit. Credit for getting Rakell and keeping him, but he didn't inherit a skeleton top-6 of just Sid and Geno or something.

Agree that the bottom-6 is as comparable as those dreadful Gladams years. -shudder-

 

[Pancakes]

Hextall landed Rakell. Sid, Geno, Jake, Rust and Zucker were all here when Hextall took over. He didn't build shit. Credit for getting Rakell and keeping him, but he didn't inherit a skeleton top-6 of just Sid and Geno or something.

Agree that the bottom-6 is as comparable as those dreadful Gladams years. -shudder-

It's blatantly obvious that the bottom six and inconsistent goaltending and Sullivan's coaching are sinking this team.

The best we can hope for are that 2 of 3 of those things will get addressed. Sully isn't getting fired.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hextall landed Rakell. Sid, Geno, Jake, Rust and Zucker were all here when Hextall took over. He didn't build shit. Credit for getting Rakell and keeping him, but he didn't inherit a skeleton top-6 of just Sid and Geno or something.

Agree that the bottom-6 is as comparable as those dreadful Gladams years. -shudder-

I mean Geno and Rust were both UFAs.

The bottom six is nowhere near as bad as the Gladams years.

 

[Pancakes]

Personally, I don't care that much for oh the bottom six was xyz levels worse in xyz year. Who gives a shit.

It's bad now. Sully is bad. Hextall needs to do something about it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean Geno and Rust were both UFAs.

The bottom six is nowhere near as bad as the Gladams years.

Geno just needed to throw a pity party before he signed, he was always coming back. Rust was a guy they were gonna try their damnedest to keep around regardless of whether or not it made sense. Hextall's only contribution to the top-6 is Rakell. And again, hats off for that, he's been good. But he didn't assemble shit.

Except the worst bottom-6 in the league. He *is* actually the builder responsible for that shit sculpture.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Geno just needed to throw a pity party before he signed, he was always coming back. Rust was a guy they were gonna try their damnedest to keep around regardless of whether or not it made sense. Hextall's only contribution to the top-6 is Rakell. And again, hats off for that, he's been good. But he didn't assemble shit.

Except the worst bottom-6 in the league. He *is* actually the builder responsible for that shit sculpture.

tbf after watching Rust's play in the top 6 this year, Geno should have pouted harder.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

tbf after watching Rust's play in the top 6 this year, Geno should have pouted harder.

Between Rust and Letang, some of those "bargain" re-signings may not have been such bargains after all.

cc: @BlindWillyMcHurt The Priority™

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Between Rust and Letang, some of those "bargain" re-signings may not have been such bargains after all.

cc: @BlindWillyMcHurt The Priority™

I mean... we can bag on Malkin for being a little emo about the team dragging their feet. But shit after this year it's pretty obvious that maybe he wasn't entirely wrong by feeling a tad slighted haha

Letang's had a rough year so I feel bad piling on. But even his biggest fans were scared of that contract.

I was ALWAYS resistant to bringing Rust back. And that dude was like my guy for the B2B runs.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean... we can bag on Malkin for being a little emo about the team dragging their feet. But shit after this year it's pretty obvious that maybe he wasn't entirely wrong by feeling a tad slighted haha

Letang's had a rough year so I feel bad piling on. But even his biggest fans were scared of that contract.

I was ALWAYS resistant to bringing Rust back. And that dude was like my guy for the B2B runs.

I was always kinda expecting Geno and Letang back. I thought Rust was gone for sure, and I wanted him shopped last season. Ah well.

 

[Andy99]

I mean... we can bag on Malkin for being a little emo about the team dragging their feet. But shit after this year it's pretty obvious that maybe he wasn't entirely wrong by feeling a tad slighted haha

Letang's had a rough year so I feel bad piling on. But even his biggest fans were scared of that contract.

I was ALWAYS resistant to bringing Rust back. And that dude was like my guy for the B2B runs.

I didnt think they should have or were going to re-sign Rust…I wanted to go after someone younger, maybe trade for a RFA…it’s tough being right lol…this team needed to get a lot younger around the core …we have too many wingers 28 and older…forwards peak around 24-26 lol

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Between Rust and Letang, some of those "bargain" re-signings may not have been such bargains after all.

cc: @BlindWillyMcHurt The Priority™

We're witnessing what we expected to see once Letang lost his wheels and went from an elite skater to just an average one. His mental game can't compensate for his loss of speed.

The Rust contract is also showing what a lot of us feared. His numbers are mediocre when not feasting on the PP and his willingness to go to the dirty areas has diminished since pre-2019 Rust levels to compensate for the mediocre offense.

I'll admit I was fine with the Letang re-signing, more so for nostalgia reasons. But I wasn't a fan of re-signing Rust at all. Particularly because of who the coach was and his obsession with a certain line combination that never works.

 

[wgknestrick]

Bottom 6?, more like bottom 12. This entire org is just plain bad top to bottom.

GM needs to be fired for this roster and terribly crippling contracts to players almost as old as him.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We're witnessing what we expected to see once Letang lost his wheels and went from an elite skater to just an average one. His mental game can't compensate for his loss of speed.

The Rust contract is also showing what a lot of us feared. His numbers are mediocre when not feasting on the PP and his willingness to go to the dirty areas has diminished since pre-2019 Rust levels to compensate for the mediocre offense.

I'll admit I was fine with the Letang re-signing, more so for nostalgia reasons. But I wasn't a fan of re-signing Rust at all. Particularly because of who the coach was and his obsession with a certain line combination that never works.

Yeah, I mean for a guy who has always been pure instinct and athleticism-driven, we all knew the drop off would be ugly for Letang. I just didn't expect it to be so instant. There was like no gradual decline, just *boom*. I'm sure the off-ice stuff hasn't helped, though.

Yeah, it'd be one thing if Rust still had the qualities away from the puck he had a few years ago, but he's a floater *and* he's back to being like a 50pt guy. Not great. If he's gonna float like he has been for a while now, he better be producing. If he's not producing, he better be working his ass off.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Bottom 6?, more like bottom 12. This entire org is just plain bad top to bottom.

GM needs to be fired for this roster and terribly crippling contracts to players almost as old as him.

The top-6 is fine, imo. As good as it's gonna get realistically speaking. The problem is that the coach seems to prefer two winger duos of guys who fill the same role; Jake-Rust, two floaters who (ideally) produce, and Zucker-Rakell, two guys who do the grunt work and chip in occasionally.

I'd like a more potent scoring touch added, but that ain't gonna happen. The bottom-6 is complete and utter dogshit though, every one of 'em. And Sully's usage of them just exacerbates the issue.