Salary Cap: Pens trade talk Episode XXIV: Sleepy where are you?!?

[Gurglesons]

wow, we should be all over Ehlers if he’s available…definitely worth a first and our top prospect

No chance Ehlers is available

 

[Andy99]

No chance Ehlers is available

I just noticed he’s n LTIR anyway…not sure what issue is but it could affect his value…also he has a modified NTC kicking in this summer..I actually think it’s reasonable that he might be available

 

[Flying Dego]

wow, we should be all over Ehlers if he’s available…definitely worth a first and our top prospect

Sure...but I would just throw the kitchen sink to pry out Kyle Connor

3 1sts+ Zucker+ZAR

He's one of my favorite non Pens I've watched live the past 10 years. Soo fast and skilled

 

[3ladesof5teel]

If your not going to play Zucker with Sid (which I don't see it happening). One of Kap and Zucker has to work with L2 for us to be successful or else we are fish out of water.

Kap is so mind f***ed right now I don't know if he will get it together. I love the Kid and he knows he needs to step it up but it seems every time there's a mental lapse Sully makes an example of him and he doesn't seem to take it well.

That leaves Zucker which a lot of this relies on Zucker actually coming back and being able to play after core surgery.

Bonus if somehow Zucker and Kap both figure it out.

 

[Darren McCord]

wow, we should be all over Ehlers if he’s available…definitely worth a first and our top prospect

Hes injured now but I would be all over Ehlers. I would also be interested in Copp. I think Ehlers stays tho and they try to move Wheeler soon.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Sprong was more JR's fault imo than Sully.

Did Sullivan pout like a baby when trying to utilize Sprong properly even in a bad situation? Most definitely.

But JR should have never had him up and burned his first year. Sprong should have spent a solid 2yrs in the AHL to round out his game, instead they f***ed with his up and downs from WBS to Pens and his waiver eligibility. Had they not wasted 2015-16 on 18 games where he was insanely wasted, they would have been able to drop him down to WBS in 2018-19. Sprong is still 24 and looks lost 80% of the time in the NHL.

One would have to be brain damaged to think the Penguins weren't directly responsible for his developmental f*** up, most of it anyway.

All sully had to do was give Spong 20 games with Geno.......maybe Zucker never had to happen.

So stupid when you look back at the capital we traded for Reaves and Zucker.

Watching FL tonight, as I always do, 3 guys who I pined for who all would have came without a ransom (Duclair, Bennett & Reinhart) would all look mighty nice on the Pens right now.

So many options and we overpaid for Zucker.....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

All sully had to do was give Spong 20 games with Geno.......maybe Zucker never had to happen.

So stupid when you look back at the capital we traded for Reaves and Zucker.

Watching FL tonight, as I always do, 3 guys who I pined for who all would have came without a ransom (Duclair, Bennett & Reinhart) would all look mighty nice on the Pens right now.

So many options and we overpaid for Zucker.....

Trust me mate the disdain for the whole Sprong situation will never not bother me. JR f***ed up and Sully continued to f*** it up until JR had to get something for him before he was completely ruined.

 

[tom_servo]

The Penguins are in a weird place. I think they're having a fine season, better than recent years, but I also think they're a clear tier below like five contenders. Most of whom are in the East. I don't really see a trade or lineup rearrangement to bridge that gap. I suggest we all just accept what we've got and don't offer up any more changes. Thread over.

 

[Pens x]

The Penguins are in a weird place. I think they're having a fine season, better than recent years, but I also think they're a clear tier below like five contenders. Most of whom are in the East. I don't really see a trade or lineup rearrangement to bridge that gap. I suggest we all just accept what we've got and don't offer up any more changes. Thread over.

If this is how you feel, why wouldn’t you trade every pending UFA? We are in a weird place because the team has been mismanaged by JR, Bylsma 2.0, and Sleepy since 2017.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins are in a weird place. I think they're having a fine season, better than recent years, but I also think they're a clear tier below like five contenders. Most of whom are in the East. I don't really see a trade or lineup rearrangement to bridge that gap. I suggest we all just accept what we've got and don't offer up any more changes. Thread over.

I don't see any team in the East that is clearly better than the Penguins other than the Lightning, and even that is mostly based on reputation.

Every single team in the East this year has a pretty noticeable flaw as far as I can tell.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

All sully had to do was give Spong 20 games with Geno.......maybe Zucker never had to happen.

So stupid when you look back at the capital we traded for Reaves and Zucker.

Watching FL tonight, as I always do, 3 guys who I pined for who all would have came without a ransom (Duclair, Bennett & Reinhart) would all look mighty nice on the Pens right now.

So many options and we overpaid for Zucker.....

Easy to say in hindsight when you don't know what talks went in behind the scenes. Iv'e heard Bennett was pretty much a lock to Florida so irrelevant to even throw the name out there

 

[Ugene Magic]

The Penguins are in a weird place. I think they're having a fine season, better than recent years, but I also think they're a clear tier below like five contenders. Most of whom are in the East. I don't really see a trade or lineup rearrangement to bridge that gap. I suggest we all just accept what we've got and don't offer up any more changes. Thread over.

I don't think they are in any weirder place than they've been in before, the only difference this time is they don't need to make minor tweaks to round out the team but make a couple real selective tweaks of a couple players who can make a larger impact.

1. Is that impact winger with more consistency.
2. That depth D-man for the r-side bottom pairing.

They are just overloaded with bottom six depth, and really covered at L-side D.

Not that I'd say it would happen, but Boeser and Schenn isn't that far out of reality. It would certainly lock Boeser at RW on one of the top 2 lines. Time is a great attribute to have and most decent deals are done before the TDL and the cusp of Mar. 21 gives them 19 games, but it will probably be in the mid 20's to get acclimated and whatever else.

I'd feel this way you do each and every year that goes by and they keep losing talent, though. There are no guarantees as long as Geno and Letang remain unsigned that they'll even be remotely as close as they are now.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't think they are in any weirder place than they've been in before, the only difference this time is they don't need to make minor tweaks to round out the team but make a couple real selective tweaks of a couple players who can make a larger impact.

1. Is that impact winger with more consistency.
2. That depth D-man for the r-side bottom pairing.

They are just overloaded with bottom six depth, and really covered at L-side D.

Not that I'd say it would happen, but Boeser and Schenn isn't that far out of reality. It would certainly lock Boeser at RW on one of the top 2 lines. Time is a great attribute to have and most decent deals are done before the TDL and the cusp of Mar. 21 gives them 19 games, but it will probably be in the mid 20's to get acclimated and whatever else.

I'd feel this way you do each and every year that goes by and they keep losing talent, though. There are no guarantees as long as Geno and Letang remain unsigned that they'll even be remotely as close as they are now.

I think a lot more deals are going to happen sooner this year. You get the player to help you make the playoffs and longer to gel as you said. There's a certain rhythm to the season and the late-March deadline ain't it. You'll see more activity around now - when the deadline historically is.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't think they are in any weirder place than they've been in before, the only difference this time is they don't need to make minor tweaks to round out the team but make a couple real selective tweaks of a couple players who can make a larger impact.

1. Is that impact winger with more consistency.
2. That depth D-man for the r-side bottom pairing.

They are just overloaded with bottom six depth, and really covered at L-side D.

Not that I'd say it would happen, but Boeser and Schenn isn't that far out of reality. It would certainly lock Boeser at RW on one of the top 2 lines. Time is a great attribute to have and most decent deals are done before the TDL and the cusp of Mar. 21 gives them 19 games, but it will probably be in the mid 20's to get acclimated and whatever else.

I'd feel this way you do each and every year that goes by and they keep losing talent, though. There are no guarantees as long as Geno and Letang remain unsigned that they'll even be remotely as close as they are now.

If somehow we could spring a Boeser and Schenn move I think we should try hard to do so. That helps fortify our line up in areas we clearly are lacking in. It just depends on the cost. Obviously KK would go back, not sure what else we'd pony up. But any of the guys in WB by all means. Maybe except Nylander.

 

[Darren McCord]

Man I wish we had Saad over Kap. He would be great on the LW with Geno

 

[Ugene Magic]

If somehow we could spring a Boeser and Schenn move I think we should try hard to do so. That helps fortify our line up in areas we clearly are lacking in. It just depends on the cost. Obviously KK would go back, not sure what else we'd pony up. But any of the guys in WB by all means. Maybe except Nylander.

I don't know if I'd even protect or not use Nylander, but with how next season is going to be, maybe they don't retain on E-Rod and some others opening the door for him in the bottom six.

 

[Tender Rip]

Mostly very good is some real shit stat watching assessment. Jarry won games where the Penguins had zero business winning even 1pt, where the defense was a f***ing joke and was doing its mickey mouse bullshit in his own zone in front of him.

Goals against per game we are 4th.
Shots against per game we are 9th
Scoring chances against (total) we are 14th (we'd be rounding out the top10 on a per game basis)
HD scoring chances against (total) we are 12th (same as above, we'd be rounding out the top10 on a per game basis)

PK we are 2nd in the league - and we are allowing the lowest or top 3 lowest amount of chances/HD chances/shots of any team on a per game basis. Also the lowest amount of total goals against (17), despite no team having played more games.
We are very near the top of most categories here that are non-goalie dependent.

The above is context. It means our goal tending has clearly aided us, and Jarry more so because DeSmith has really bad numbers save for four or five games. But it also says that, at worst, our defense or at least team defense has performed as top 10 in the league over the season as a whole.

Then what about Jarry individually? (looking only at goalies with more than 600 minutes playes).

He is 9th in the league in overall save%.
He is tied for 8th in the league in 5 on 5 save%.
He is 16th in ES save percentage (probably reflecting our dodgy D in OT and 4 on 4 play)
He is however only 29th when we look at overall HD save% which is a category you'd expect to be higher in, if you were consistently standing on your head to win your team games.
Naturalstattrick does not appear to have individual save% for PK'ing situations, which is a shame, so I cannot get CDS out of that one. They do have the team stats though, and Pens get the 2nd best save percentage overall, and the 15th best save% on HD chances. Remember that the team is numerically speaking elite in not allowing these, so part of the elite overall stats is also that the vast majority of shots against are kept to areas where saves are more routine.

One of the things usually pointed out is that Jarry is at the top in terms of number of saves made and more so HD chances saved. At the same time, he is also at the top in HD chance goals allowed. These are more than anything functions of playing the most minutes and games of all goalies with Helle and Saros, who are right there with him in these categories.
Therefore pointing out middling HD save% is meaningful context.

I'd say a good 15 games are Jarry winning it on sheer brass bollocks being pissed off with his defense fueling him.

That'd be 15 of his 25 wins..... There have also been games where he was great where we lost anyway.
We don't have a juggernaut team, but we are also top10 in goal scoring, shots per game, shots allowed and now 12th on the PP. In win % we are 9th.
The reality is that goaltending is very important, but also that the goalies of your own team are the only ones you (or most people at least) see play a great number of times a year. Hence stats are meaningful to provide some context, more so as few people are good at evaluating goalies.

Jarry has been very good. But clearly our defense/team defense has been good too, when you look at the season as a whole. All fans can look at their own team and find numerous games where they've played shitty D, or just given up pathetic goals due to individual mistakes.
There may not be a high profile D-man in the league who is individually to blame for more of those kinds of goals than Letang. He has still had a very good season on balance.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't know if I'd even protect or not use Nylander, but with how next season is going to be, maybe they don't retain on E-Rod and some others opening the door for him in the bottom six.

Nylander intrgues me a bit. I'd keep him. Maybe KK and Poulin. Not sure what else, but I'm not gonna get Silly about it. Boesers a good player but he has his flaws also. The Cap would also be some consideration. Maybe KK, ZAR and Poulin for Boeser (with minor retention) Schenn and a mid round pick..

 

[Ugene Magic]

J. Caufield was still somewhat offering up about the goaltending and seeing how that still plays out down this stretch.

I'm just not that concerned. It's Jarry or nothing. Better to fix what you can in front of Jarry/DeSmith and make a run of it.

 

[Ryder71]

J. Caufield was still somewhat offering up about the goaltending and seeing how that still plays out down this stretch.

I'm just not that concerned. It's Jarry or nothing. Better to fix what you can in front of Jarry/DeSmith and make a run of it.

I'm more interested in Domingue than Desmith. But having both assuages my concerns a bit. Although if Jarry implodes we're likely sunk anyhow.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Nylander intrgues me a bit. I'd keep him. Maybe KK and Poulin. Not sure what else, but I'm not gonna get Silly about it. Boesers a good player but he has his flaws also. The Cap would also be some consideration. Maybe KK, ZAR and Poulin for Boeser (with minor retention) and Schenn.

Probably adding a 3rd/4th for retention and Schenn.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'm more interested in Domingue than Desmith. But having both assuages my concerns a bit. Although if Jarry implodes we're likely sunk anyhow.

Exactly. There's only so much you can do/address.

I just hope they feel it is worth trying. That's why I don't fully look to Hextall when Burke and company are there to keep chances on the table over hording draft picks, or even players like Kapanen. Kappy was JR's boy, I don't know how attached they are to him. Maybe they see him as a bit more wait and see in the future.

 

[ColePens]

The Penguins are in a weird place. I think they're having a fine season, better than recent years, but I also think they're a clear tier below like five contenders. Most of whom are in the East. I don't really see a trade or lineup rearrangement to bridge that gap. I suggest we all just accept what we've got and don't offer up any more changes. Thread over.

I agree with this. And either they get hot and go on a run or don't. Like guys like Erod can heat up or they don't.

That being said if something is out there for a rental and it's not insane - meehhhh why not. 2017 we could have packed it in w/ Letang but we didn't. We got a bunch of depth guys and the team made it happen. I think play it just like that.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I agree with this. And either they get hot and go on a run or don't. Like guys like Erod can heat up or they don't.

That being said if something is out there for a rental and it's not insane - meehhhh why not. 2017 we could have packed it in w/ Letang but we didn't. We got a bunch of depth guys and the team made it happen. I think play it just like that.

They still had a lot invested into that team to not do anything. You could make the case they are not as invested into this one more. They are not holding depth at all positions like those years. If those later injuries don't hit so hard it might have been a bit better on the eye test.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Neither is the first line

Agreed.