Salary Cap: Pens trade talk Episode XXIV: Sleepy where are you?!?

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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Goals against per game we are 4th.
Shots against per game we are 9th
Scoring chances against (total) we are 14th (we'd be rounding out the top10 on a per game basis)
HD scoring chances against (total) we are 12th (same as above, we'd be rounding out the top10 on a per game basis)

PK we are 2nd in the league - and we are allowing the lowest or top 3 lowest amount of chances/HD chances/shots of any team on a per game basis. Also the lowest amount of total goals against (17), despite no team having played more games.
We are very near the top of most categories here that are non-goalie dependent.

The above is context. It means our goal tending has clearly aided us, and Jarry more so because DeSmith has really bad numbers save for four or five games. But it also says that, at worst, our defense or at least team defense has performed as top 10 in the league over the season as a whole.

Then what about Jarry individually? (looking only at goalies with more than 600 minutes playes).

He is 9th in the league in overall save%.
He is tied for 8th in the league in 5 on 5 save%.
He is 16th in ES save percentage (probably reflecting our dodgy D in OT and 4 on 4 play)
He is however only 29th when we look at overall HD save% which is a category you'd expect to be higher in, if you were consistently standing on your head to win your team games.
Naturalstattrick does not appear to have individual save% for PK'ing situations, which is a shame, so I cannot get CDS out of that one. They do have the team stats though, and Pens get the 2nd best save percentage overall, and the 15th best save% on HD chances. Remember that the team is numerically speaking elite in not allowing these, so part of the elite overall stats is also that the vast majority of shots against are kept to areas where saves are more routine.

One of the things usually pointed out is that Jarry is at the top in terms of number of saves made and more so HD chances saved. At the same time, he is also at the top in HD chance goals allowed. These are more than anything functions of playing the most minutes and games of all goalies with Helle and Saros, who are right there with him in these categories.
Therefore pointing out middling HD save% is meaningful context.



That'd be 15 of his 25 wins..... There have also been games where he was great where we lost anyway.
We don't have a juggernaut team, but we are also top10 in goal scoring, shots per game, shots allowed and now 12th on the PP. In win % we are 9th.
The reality is that goaltending is very important, but also that the goalies of your own team are the only ones you (or most people at least) see play a great number of times a year. Hence stats are meaningful to provide some context, more so as few people are good at evaluating goalies.

Jarry has been very good. But clearly our defense/team defense has been good too, when you look at the season as a whole. All fans can look at their own team and find numerous games where they've played shitty D, or just given up pathetic goals due to individual mistakes.
There may not be a high profile D-man in the league who is individually to blame for more of those kinds of goals than Letang. He has still had a very good season on balance.
What were we under Bylsma? Top of the division each of those years?
 
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Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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Redmond, WA
Daniel Sprong sucks and it's absolutely mind boggling that there are still Penguins fans who bitch about him.

The dude is an ass player with a great shot. How can you look at him and say "he's the missing piece this team needs"? He cleared waivers for Christ's sake. And this is coming from someone who has a Sprong jersey too. He's not a "bust" but he is absolutely not a guy a team misses.

I can get being mad that they let someone like Oleksiak or Sundqvist go, but Daniel Sprong? Really?
 

Tender Rip

Wears long pants
Feb 12, 2007
17,999
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What were we under Bylsma? Top of the division each of those years?

Wow. HoG be like:

R.9dd446476115cb33cd46e5bf647e9599
 

Mrs Crosby's Dryer

Can we please fire idiot Sullivan now?
Dec 11, 2005
274
106
Pittsburgh, Pa.
Zucker was arguably the second worst trade in franchise history (undisputed first being the Nasland deal), so it would be really nice to get out of that contract. Packaging him and Derp for Miller and Hamonic would be my EA NHL 22 type deal, but too many intricacies and idiot Sullivan would get in the way of that.

I don’t want to give up on KK yet as I think he can rebound with the right linemates (?Gino & McGinn?) and really turn into the player JR thought he was getting. Trading him now will likely get too low of a return to rationally justify doing it.

I also don’t want to trade a young and still developing Marino for some washed/old/way overpaid Petry either. We have an, albeit better skating, poor man’s Petry already and his name is Matheson.

Shipping out POJ or Poulin (or Legare) doesn’t make much sense either given our cap issues and lack of prospects, so hopefully we aren’t still entertaining that idea.

I’ve been totally disappointed in Hextall’s performance thus far and don’t expect much to happen at the TDL. He’s not *really* in charge though, so I guess it is what it is a far as the status quo goes.

Hopefully Lemiuex steps in during the off-season to override idiot Sullivan and we resign Geno and more importantly Letang. Much to a lot of the posters on here’s chagrin at least with those two and Sid we still have a chance to contend regardless of what we surround them with.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,365
79,404
Redmond, WA
Zucker was arguably the second worst trade in franchise history (undisputed first being the Nasland deal), so it would be really nice to get out of that contract. Packaging him and Derp for Miller and Hamonic would be my EA NHL 22 type deal, but too many intricacies and idiot Sullivan would get in the way of that.

I don’t want to give up on KK yet as I think he can rebound with the right linemates (?Gino & McGinn?) and really turn into the player JR thought he was getting. Trading him now will likely get too low of a return to rationally justify doing it.

I also don’t want to trade a young and still developing Marino for some washed/old/way overpaid Petry either. We have an, albeit better skating, poor man’s Petry already and his name is Matheson.

Shipping out POJ or Poulin (or Legare) doesn’t make much sense either given our cap issues and lack of prospects, so hopefully we aren’t still entertains that idea.

I’ve been totally disappointed in Hextall’s performance thus far and don’t expect much to happen at the TDL. He’s not *really* in charge though, so I guess it is what it is a far as the status quo goes.

Hopefully Lemiuex steps in during the off-season to override idiot Sullivan and we resign Geno and more importantly Letang. Much to a lot of the posters on here’s chagrin at least with those two and Sid we still have a chance to contend regardless of what we surround them with.

black-kid-seizure-seizure-kid.gif


Man I'd recommend you touching some grass.
 

Pancakes

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Mar 4, 2011
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What were we under Bylsma? Top of the division each of those years?

Dan Bylsma had prime Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. Bit of a difference there.

Although I would say in fairness to Bylsma (can't believe I'm typing those words) he didn't probably have the overall depth that Sullivan has had. At least not on forward.
 

canadianguy77

Registered User
Apr 20, 2006
20,745
10,590
Dan Bylsma had prime Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. Bit of a difference there.

Although I would say in fairness to Bylsma (can't believe I'm typing those words) he didn't probably have the overall depth that Sullivan has had. At least not on forward.
By choice though, for a lot of his tenure. Like Sullivan, he pretty much ignored WBS after he was behind the Pittsburgh bench for a bit. He also really misused players because of his preconceived notions and biases.

I actually think ZAR is very much like Adams. Basically useless as NHL players. (I’m of the opinion that if you can only play defense and can’t produce any offense, you don’t belong in this league. Because you always have to play a perfect game just to break even)
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
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Dan Bylsma had prime Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. Bit of a difference there.

Although I would say in fairness to Bylsma (can't believe I'm typing those words) he didn't probably have the overall depth that Sullivan has had. At least not on forward.
Dan Bylsma had nowhere the depth on offense as Mike Bylsma. Disco’s best winger when we won the cup was Petr Sykora.
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,236
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Who want a forward that likely can’t pot 5 goals in a season though?
Plenty of people here seem to think he has value. I don’t think any team would want him, personally.

Simon would have been buried long ago on any other team and ZAR would be a healthy scratch on the majority of teams. I’m not sure why people think they have any value.
 
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AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,083
16,599
Vancouver, British Columbia
There are spam level posters here that people constantly engage with. I don’t understand. Also, it’s a trade thread and people are bitching about tired shit, I’m not a mod, so I’m allowed to criticize the super boring and irrelevant posts people make with the same posters over and over again without actually policing discussion.
By all means.

Just please make a post outlining taboo topics so I can filter my posts from here and not upset the masses. There's so many of them that it's like a minefield now.
 
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AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,083
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Vancouver, British Columbia
Not counting Jagr, Kovalev, Straka, Zubov, Ponikarovsky, Winnik, Reaves, Perron, Douglass Murray, Brassard, Glen Murray... then yeah sure @Mrs Crosby's Dryer

People just be posting anything.
Perron trade may not have worked out, but I don't think it was a bad trade on paper going in. He was a legit top 6 Forward and the Pens needed a scoring winger.
He just sucked here under Mike Johnston.
1st and Rob Klinkhammer... meh. I think it was a 15th overall pick.

I suppose it's possible the Pens would have taken Barzal, Boeser, Konecny or Kyle Connor with that pick, but with our history of drafting 1sts in the Crosby era (outside of 1st OA slam dunks) I sincerely doubt it. No one can see the future.

I'm not a big fan of hindsight 20/20 trade assessment. Prefer to look at the available information at the time and what the GM chose to do.

The Zucker trade falls under "bad choice" in that category imo. He had an outlier year, a fat contract and was never gonna have PP1 minutes here like he did in Minnesota.
Was a move reeking of desperation. We gave up more for him than we did for Perron.
Perron's 3.8 cap hit was more palatable, as was the 1 year of term left on the deal.

TL;DR reasonable trade, bad situation for the player and end result
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Dan Bylsma had prime Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. Bit of a difference there.

Although I would say in fairness to Bylsma (can't believe I'm typing those words) he didn't probably have the overall depth that Sullivan has had. At least not on forward.
Bylsma also lost Crosby to his neck and concussion for 90% of a season and half of another and then lost Geno for half with his first knee issue.

Fairness mate?

They're both stubborn dick heads.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Wow. HoG be like:

R.9dd446476115cb33cd46e5bf647e9599
Yeah I forgot the time Sully lost Geno for half a season and Sid for 1.5 seasons. Meanwhile, stubborn wanker 1.0 had Ruslan Fedotenko as a top 6 forward and also made the finals back to back but won once.

The first wanker has a better win % as a Penguin coach. Both stopped using youth in fair roles as their tenure went on and leaned a lot on useless vets.

Tanner f***ing Glass
Craig useless Adams
Dominik Flaccid shooting Simon
Zach Absolutely-Useless-Reese
Chad lol regular Ruhwedel

Dan had as many first-2nd round exits as Sully after his (one and only cup but after Sullys second) cup.
 

madinsomniac

Registered User
Jul 3, 2012
12,854
3,022
Pittsburgh, Pa
Dan Bylsma had prime Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. Bit of a difference there.

Although I would say in fairness to Bylsma (can't believe I'm typing those words) he didn't probably have the overall depth that Sullivan has had. At least not on forward.
And that was mostly by choice… Bylsma was a grunt who loved the grunts… people complain about ZAR but he is a better defensive player, a better goal scorer, and a better point producer than either Glass or Adams were , yet there isn’t a doubt in my mind that if he were coaching this team with all the options available to him and if adams and glass were still playing, they would be in this lineup….
 
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Nona Di Giuseppe

Registered User
Jul 14, 2009
4,918
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Coquitlam
I would say f*** it and bait Alvin/JR into this:

ZAR + Kapanen + 2nd round pick 2023, Gruden/Bjorkqvist/AA for Schenn + Boeser (17% retained).

GCR
Heinen, Malkin, Boeser
Zucker, Carter, Rodrigues
Boyle/Simon/Zohorna, Blueger, McGinn

Dumoulin, Letang
Matheson, Schenn
Pettersson, Marino

I wasn’t sure if you guys were aware but Pens scouts have been at a bunch o Canucks games.

That bulk package of stuff you won’t really miss wouldn’t get it done though.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Maybe I don't like either coach. Which would be true. The fact that muppets here hang on to regular season success is why I mentioned Disco. Disco was better and did more with losing his big 3 and whack winger depth, during the regular season.

Sully had it good and then completely lost the plot after the Caps loss.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
I wasn’t sure if you guys were aware but Pens scouts have been at a bunch o Canucks games.

That bulk package of stuff you won’t really miss wouldn’t get it done though.
It's the JR Pf Chang's special of shit he likes. Aka his shit.

He can go f*** himself and take his shit for better wares. He owes us for how he f***ed the pooch here with the cap and assets.

Also Kapanen isn't bulk package. ZAR is solid defensively, your team sucks ass defensively.


Edit : you're maybe right. Who would need a player that is good defensively and is on a top 3 pk unit. Definitely not the worst pk team in the league with a minus 8 differential.
 

AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,083
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Fox, Miller, Trouba, and then you have Lindberg - A bloke that will get in the face of players and not be shy about it. That's an interesting D-Core.

Most of that Defense is under 30. Trouba is 27 and Nemeth is 30, the rest are aged 20-24 (K'Andre is 22 and Schneider is 20).

Meanwhile, we're seeing Ruhwedel get the opportunities younger D should be getting to grow.
upload_2022-2-23_0-55-1.png


They're huge and use that size too. Whoever gets them in R1 will come out battered.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
View attachment 509900

They're huge and use that size too. Whoever gets them in R1 will come out battered.
Dallas and LA had their way with us and their defense and forwards weren't as heavy as the NYR.

I'd be more worried about the useless sack the first line is. Geno will produce regardless of his wingers but the first line in the playoffs the last 3 seasons isn't a one off. That might be a trend and maybe they break out of it. But if they aren't getting Geno a proper winger that also helps Kapanen on the line too, they're f***ed because Sully will freeze with his line up like usual.
 

Nona Di Giuseppe

Registered User
Jul 14, 2009
4,918
2,446
Coquitlam
It's the JR Pf Chang's special of shit he likes. Aka his shit.

He can go f*** himself and take his shit for better wares. He owes us for how he f***ed the pooch here with the cap and assets.

Also Kapanen isn't bulk package. ZAR is solid defensively, your team sucks ass defensively.

LMAO.

Kapanen does nothing for Vancouver. Nothing in the offer fills a need. Other teams would beat it. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

but ok. Just argue your take I guess.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
LMAO.

Kapanen does nothing for Vancouver. Nothing in the offer fills a need. Other teams would beat it. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

but ok. Just argue your take I guess.
Other teams also know Boeser's rfa issue. Your team is boned Cap wise.

Enjoy. We don't really think about you lot at all. But Brock probably wishes he can play with his mate, Jake.

Brock's style would work with Geno and might be worth his QO. Only teams that would afford Brock's QO aren't teams that will give up much because they'll be rebuilding themselves. So those teams will also want to dump salary.
 
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