Salary Cap: Pens trade talk Episode XXIV: Sleepy where are you?!?

[DesertedPenguin]

Lol…Christian Fischer and Cal Clutterbuck are who we are supposedly looking at…just why? Might as well give up the season, Hextall, if that’s your TDL plan…

NHL trade tiers 2022: Best players available at each position

There is nothing there about the Penguins actually considering those players.

It is merely speculation by the author that there could be a fit.

 

[Andy99]

There is nothing there about the Penguins actually considering those players.

It is merely speculation by the author that there could be a fit.

the author is clueless..we really don’t need any bottom six players, and if we want some beef/physicality, it needs to be through the D…

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's getting to the point where even on paper NYR is getting close too. They are improving their weaknesses from earlier in the year. Getting pretty scary for us.

You got a Vezina goalie in net. Norris stud on the blue line. Kreider's playing like Jesus. Panarin's stepping it up after a slow start. Zibanejad is back to point per game. Strome is f***ing solid. Miller and Trouba would be nasty to face in a series. And yeah, if the kids get going then things really start to get dangerous for us.

Fox, Miller, Trouba, and then you have Lindberg - A bloke that will get in the face of players and not be shy about it. That's an interesting D-Core.

Most of that Defense is under 30. Trouba is 27 and Nemeth is 30, the rest are aged 20-24 (K'Andre is 22 and Schneider is 20).

Meanwhile, we're seeing Ruhwedel get the opportunities younger D should be getting to grow.

 

[Gurglesons]

the author is clueless..we really don’t need any bottom six players, and if we want some beef/physicality, it needs to be through the D…

ZAR for Fischer would be something I’d try.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

the author is clueless..we really don’t need any bottom six players, and if we want some beef/physicality, it needs to be through the D…

IF anything, we need less bottom 6 players. There's very NOTHING by the way of f***ing dynamic players that they give opportunities to and I mean even f***ing Jordie Bellerive.

Simon, Boyle, and ZAR are dead last 4th liners.
Then you have inbetweeners like Rodrigues, McGinn, Heinen, Blueger (a legit 3C but never in Sully's eyes).

While Blueger was out, I don't get why they wouldn't have called up Bellerive for a game or 2 on the 4th line. Boyle is fine sitting a game or two, his body would probably welcome the rest.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

ZAR for Fischer would be something I’d try.

ZAR for some frozen fishsticks is something I'd be in favor of as well.

 

[SEALBound]

Teddy isn't a typical 4th line caliber player. Do you think he is?

I honestly have no idea what he is. He's like a Jordan Staal-lite inbetweenie. Staal was likely too good to be a 3C and but necessarily a great 2C. Bleuger is likely too good to be a 4C but maybe not a great 3C. With the resigning of Jeff Carter, I don't know what to think about what the org thinks about him.

Lol…Christian Fischer and Cal Clutterbuck are who we are supposedly looking at…just why? Might as well give up the season, Hextall, if that’s your TDL plan…

NHL trade tiers 2022: Best players available at each position

Not really, I think either one of them would be good additions that bring an element that we are currently missing. Always depends on price but man alive would I just on a ZAR+ for Fischer or Clutterbuck deal.

With Arizona, they have a lot of cap room that could lay the ground for a lot of different deals. They have picks up the wazoo too.

Fischer+2nd for Kapanen+5th
Fischer for Zucker
Dare I say...Fischer+Kessel @ 50% for Zucker+pick

Clutterbuck is a little tougher being that he's at $3.5mil and it's the Islanders...so that is tougher to see. Maybe a three way that has another team retaining for us?

To Pit: Clutterbuck @50%
To NYI: Fischer
To ARI: Zucker + pick

I dunno, I'm not sure if any of those are close. I'm just spitballing. Something that Arizona MAY consider, given their willingness to sell off assets:

Vejmelka+Fischer
for
Kapanen+Clang/Blomqvist+late pick or prospect

Gives us the now backup goalie we need, gives me the future goalie that will likely fit the development path of their team given their 3 1sts and 5 2nds this draft.

 

[Andy99]

ZAR for Fischer would be something I’d try.

they both suck…and that’s not going to be the difference in us winning a PO round lol

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lol…Christian Fischer and Cal Clutterbuck are who we are supposedly looking at…just why? Might as well give up the season, Hextall, if that’s your TDL plan…

NHL trade tiers 2022: Best players available at each position

Yeah not sure what the fascination with Fischer and Clutterf*** are about. Like we need more of that type?

I'd be down for Nick Cousins if we moved out Simon and ZAR. But not really interested in Clutterbuck, I just know that would end very poorly and the Isles aren't going to be doing the Pens any favors with his contract and retaining without taking Hextall to the cleaners. As for Fischer, the lad is broken. Dvorak was a solid player and was finally freed from that dumpster known as Arizona. But Fischer? He's regressed into a player that they should probably bench.

I would rather let Angello up and play over moving for Fischer. At least Cousins is a solid player that has continued to be a rock solid bottom 6 player that plays with an edge.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

If Sully sees with the schedule coming up his guys who fit his system are simply not good enough, will he grasp the obvious. DOC, certainly should be back with some size and flexibility. TB back is a big help hopefully in 3 to 4 weeks. It really comes down to cap space and if Zucker can remain on LTIR, then Hextall has some wiggle room to add. Plus one get Zucker back for the playoffs as well. Send Simon down or out. Trade Reese for additional cap space and add a bigger RW RS and or a RD RS D man with size and grit.

Jake Sid Rust
Heinen Geno Carter
McGinn TB Kap
DOC Boyle E ROD

Second line not good enough for the playoffs.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

ZAR for Fischer would be something I’d try.

I'd rather just move ZAR for 2 of their 2nd round picks they've hoarded like mad.

I'd specifically want the Flyers one for the laughs, then the Canucks one as a f*** you to JR.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Second line not good enough for the playoffs.

Who gives a f*** about the 2nd line, they've been holding Sullivan back for a couple of seasons now, he should be able to throw all sorts of garbage on Malkin's wings and his elite 101st best talent should be carrying them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would be happy to swap out ZAR for Clutterbuck, but I don't know how you can make that cap work and it would likely cost you assets to do that.

If they stick with the Malkin-Carter duo on the 2nd line, I think the only spot I'd like to see upgraded on is with ZAR. At the same time, I don't want to spend assets to do that because you can just play O'Connor there and likely get that upgrade.

Second line not good enough for the playoffs.

Zucker-Malkin-Carter is a completely good enough second line for the playoffs.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I liked Kapanen and Zucker, but this team literally destroyed one's confidence and the other one is questioning if he plays hard enough (he f***ing does).

Meanwhile, top line gives zero f***s because they're the safest trio in the league, they can throw random passes to no one and turn pucks over and back check like lazy f***s and will never be tinkered with.

I'm at the point where I love Kap on this team and I love seeing Zucker as a Penguin, but their usage is so bad, Hextall is better off moving them at this stage. I wouldn't be shocked to see both revert back to solid NHL'ers away from this situation. I just feel bad for Malkin. He's proven to have better stats with G & R than Sid has ever had, but he's been asked to make Heinen, a broken Kapanen, and Carter into legit 2nd line wingers while playing on a rebuilt knee and rust.

Meanwhile (not his fault), Sid got 2 of the best wingers and had an easier route with his wrist return.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What's funny about the people whining about Malkin not getting to play with Guentzel and Rust is that the most commonly proposed lineup with Carter on RW involves Malkin getting the Penguins 2 best scoring wingers in the playoffs in the last few years. Zucker has 4 goals and 5 points in 10 playoff games with the Penguins, and generally looked good in each playoff series he was in. Carter was an absolute force last year and had as many goals in 6 playoff games as Crosby has in his last 17 playoff games.

Zucker and Carter as a winger duo is a completely legitimate 2nd line winger combination, at least in theory. You can argue that they should distribute their talent more by having 1 1st line guy (Guentzel and Rust) with 1 2nd line guy (Zucker and Carter), but I really don't think the majority of people are arguing that.

What sucks is that I think the best wing duos that the team can run with right now are Guentzel-Zucker and Carter-Rust, but that involves playing 2 guys on their off-wings. I would be totally happy to see Guentzel-Crosby-Zucker and Carter-Malkin-Rust, I just think there is no chance the Penguins play 2 guys on their off-wings like that.

 

[Flying Dego]

Zucker-Sid-Rust
Guentzel-Geno-Carter
McGinn-Blueger-Kap
Heinen-ERod-Upgrade

Zohorna/Boyle
Trade:ZAR
Waive:Simon

If we're gonna go super safe no big trades which is probably a given with Hextall. We should look at getting a better bottom 6 Wing.

But this would also mean our coach would have to try different lines combinations to try and balance the roster...and out of respect to the rest of the lineup we can't break up GCR.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Zucker-Sid-Rust
Guentzel-Geno-Carter
McGinn-Blueger-Kap
Heinen-ERod-Upgrade

Zohorna/Boyle
Trade:ZAR
Waive:Simon

If we're gonna go super safe no big trades which is probably a given with Hextall. We should look at getting a better bottom 6 Wing.

But this would also mean our coach would have to try different lines combinations to try and balance the roster...and out of respect to the rest of the lineup we can't break up GCR.

I feel like the issue is that you're putting too much on the center to create offense with a Zucker-Rust duo. We saw what happened with Zucker-Malkin-Rust in 2020, they were able to generate a ton of chances but they just couldn't produce.

You should have Guentzel and Carter each on their own lines to give Crosby and Malkin sufficient support from their wingers offensively, but the problem is that either leaves you with loading up 1 line with a Guentzel-Rust duo or playing 2 guys on their off-wings.

 

[Flying Dego]

What's funny about the people whining about Malkin not getting to play with Guentzel and Rust is that the most commonly proposed lineup with Carter on RW involves Malkin getting the Penguins 2 best scoring wingers in the playoffs in the last few years. Zucker has 4 goals and 5 points in 10 playoff games with the Penguins, and generally looked good in each playoff series he was in. Carter was an absolute force last year and had as many goals in 6 playoff games as Crosby has in his last 17 playoff games.

Zucker and Carter as a winger duo is a completely legitimate 2nd line winger combination, at least in theory. You can argue that they should distribute their talent more by having 1 1st line guy (Guentzel and Rust) with 1 2nd line guy (Zucker and Carter), but I really don't think the majority of people are arguing that.

What sucks is that I think the best wing duos that the team can run with right now are Guentzel-Zucker and Carter-Rust, but that involves playing 2 guys on their off-wings. I would be totally happy to see Guentzel-Crosby-Zucker and Carter-Malkin-Rust, I just think there is no chance the Penguins play 2 guys on their off-wings like that.

I like Guentzel on line 2 with Carter and Geno since they're bigger guys playing and can open space for Guentzel.

Zucker gives Sid and Rust some jam because GCR is a softer line come playoff time. And I'm still stuck on Zuckers chemistry with Sid when he first got here albeit limited.

 

[Gurglesons]

they both suck…and that’s not going to be the difference in us winning a PO round lol

Fischer is big tho.

 

[Flying Dego]

I feel like the issue is that you're putting too much on the center to create offense with a Zucker-Rust duo. We saw what happened with Zucker-Malkin-Rust in 2020, they were able to generate a ton of chances but they just couldn't produce.

You should have Guentzel and Carter each on their own lines to give Crosby and Malkin sufficient support from their wingers offensively, but the problem is that either leaves you with loading up 1 line with a Guentzel-Rust duo or playing 2 guys on their off-wings.

I see your point, I don't trust Zucker with Malkin entirely. Ideally I'd like another wing option for Malkin that's big and fast. But that'd require cost and cap. I don't believe Hextall will go there.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Zucker-Sid-Rust
Guentzel-Geno-Carter
McGinn-Blueger-Kap
Heinen-ERod-Upgrade

Zohorna/Boyle
Trade:ZAR
Waive:Simon

If we're gonna go super safe no big trades which is probably a given with Hextall. We should look at getting a better bottom 6 Wing.

But this would also mean our coach would have to try different lines combinations to try and balance the roster...and out of respect to the rest of the lineup we can't break up GCR.

I mean, they should break GCR up. They produce but they're also not that great defensively and in the playoffs, they'll get murdered. Sid/Jake/Rust have been hot garbage as a trio the last 3 playoffs while being good during the regular season. So the fact that they're still married to that as a line is just ignorance at this stage.

I mean the top line had this stat line in the last 3 playoffs.

Rust - 6pts in 14 games (3pts in 6 games last year)
Crosby - 6pts in 14 games (2pts in 6 games last year)
Guentzel - 6pts in 14 games (last year 2pts in 6 games)

Malkin, meanwhile, has been criticized a f*** ton by a lot of stupid muppets and has put up 9pts in 12 games in the last 3yrs (5pts in 4 games last year, with a bum knee).

So yeah, let's keep feeding that 1st line because who cares about Geno, right?

Bookmark this shit - If they keep at this and keep f***ing with Geno's line as an afterthought, this year they'll be out at the latest, 2nd round.

 

[Andy99]

Fischer is big tho.

yeah, and so is Boyle…I mean I don’t think size is a problem in our forward ranks…speed (not just foot speed, but speed of decision making under pressure) is more of an issue to get on the forecheck and back check quicker…we could use size more in our D ranks, however, but only if Sully is allowing them to take the body in the crease

 

[Empoleon8771]

I see your point, I don't trust Zucker with Malkin entirely. Ideally I'd like another wing option for Malkin that's big and fast. But that'd require cost and cap. I don't believe Hextall will go there.

Honestly, with Sullivan showing in the past that he is willing to play Carter on his off-wing (when it was Carter-Malkin-Kapanen), I'd just say screw it and put Zucker on RW with Crosby too. That's the most evenly distributed talent among their top-6, with Crosby getting the best and 4th best guy while Malkin gets the 2nd and 3rd best guy. Malkin keeps Carter on his wing, which is a huge benefit considering how strong Carter is on faceoffs, and you can also reconnect the Crosby-Zucker duo.

I don't know how Zucker would do on RW, but Carter-Malkin-Rust would absolutely be a dynamic line and I can't imagine Zucker would be so bad on RW to hurt the Crosby-Guentzel duo. Zucker's job on that line is to throw around his weight, go to the dirty areas and win board battles, I don't see why he can't do that on RW.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I would say f*** it and bait Alvin/JR into this:

ZAR + Kapanen + 2nd round pick 2023, Gruden/Bjorkqvist/AA for Schenn + Boeser (17% retained).

GCR
Heinen, Malkin, Boeser
Zucker, Carter, Rodrigues
Boyle/Simon/Zohorna, Blueger, McGinn

Dumoulin, Letang
Matheson, Schenn
Pettersson, Marino

 

[Flying Dego]

Honestly, with Sullivan showing in the past that he is willing to play Carter on his off-wing (when it was Carter-Malkin-Kapanen), I'd just say screw it and put Zucker on RW with Crosby too. That's the most evenly distributed talent among their top-6, with Crosby getting the best and 4th best guy while Malkin gets the 2nd and 3rd best guy. Malkin keeps Carter on his wing, which is a huge benefit considering how strong Carter is on faceoffs, and you can also reconnect the Crosby-Zucker duo.

I don't know how Zucker would do on RW, but Carter-Malkin-Rust would absolutely be a dynamic line and I can't imagine Zucker would be so bad on RW to hurt the Crosby-Guentzel duo. Zucker's job on that line is to throw around his weight, go to the dirty areas and win board battles, I don't see why he can't do that on RW.

Ya I'd like to see it. The issue arises to me that GCR doesn't have jam for the playoffs. Zucker gives Sid a Hornqvist lite player. It's a necessity.

Malkin getting this version of Rust who's more cerebral and a bit less sand paper would work with Geno and Carts.

The problem is we may be flexible in our thinking. I worry our coach would view that as unnecessary work and too dangerous.

Sullivan isn't coaching for his job and maybe that's the problem. He knows he's safe. And if he rolls GCR and whatever he won't have to answer for another 1st round exit. Bc that's 'the best lineup' he had to work with.

Just been less than impressed with Sullivan lately and I'm not patient with coaches regardless of past history if they are showing negative trends without correction.