Confirmed with Link: Pens trade 1st (No. 31) + Oskar Sundqvist for Ryan Reaves and Blues 2nd (No. 51)

[Paulie Gualtieri]

People seem to be forgetting that it's the LAST first round pick.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Wait, why is it better to pick 31st than 51st is an actual question?

I actually prefer picking #55 personally, but to each his own.

 

[Terrapin]

Damn....

 

[WayneSid9987]

Yea, Reaves is more Matt Martin than Tom Sestito.
JR wanted a Matt Martin on his roster. Simple as that really.

 

[djt153]

i would never signed up for this board all those years ago had i known there would be an exam

 

[froods]

It is better, but how much better? The hyperbole of we traded a first round pick for Reaves is laughable. We moved down 20 spots in a draft where 25-60 were very similar in talent. Is it better to pick at 31? Yes, but what do we lose 20 picks later? Probably a less difficult decision with one or two guys we were considering at 31 still being there.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I was just thinking the same thing.

But it IS an actual question, whether you look at it from game theory, probability, statistics or whatever. There's a lot of lazy thinking in this thread, and I can get behind people not liking the trade or not liking Reaves (even though most of the posters whining the loudest about it haven't watched him by their own admission ), but as long as they're coming at it honestly, it's cool.

There's a lot of interesting work that's been done on the probability and mapping of drafts, and I'd be shocked if the analytics team in the front office hasn't been thinking about it too.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

We just added a worse version of Tom Wilson. After two years of proving to the NHL that players like that and playing like that are useless against Pens' hockey. Series after series teams got out of position trying to make the big hit and by game three completely abandoned that play but already were too deep in the hole. He would be beyond useless in the playoffs when it counts. Regular season? Decapitate Ovechkin and Dubinsky every game we play them for all I care, regular season is meaningless. You could call Sestito up to do that if you want. It will not stop a single cheap shot on Sid or Malkin, it simply will turn the games into clown shows.

Worse we have players who have had discipline issues in the past. Starting with Malkin. You introduce that element into the game you encourage slippage among that group.

The price is not a big deal, I just don't get the point of him. He isn't going to stop a single cheap hit and if you are not going to become a hitting team trying to wear the other team down he will come on the ice, knowing his role will do something stupid, and be gone after six or seven minutes of play and I would bet dimes to dollars doesn't prevent anything. In fact his antics will provoke retaliation if anything.

Cheap shots to star players is a massive problem, agreed. The NHL massively dropped the ball and will pay in the ongoing lawsuit. This move however will do nothing to help the star players on this team, zero, nothing. Just watch this year and see. You are going to be massively disappointed when the number of cheap shots to our stars does not diminish at all, Reaves comes out and retaliates, teams have a couple of side show fights and then he gets tossed and you wonder what the point was in bringing him here.

I hated the move yesterday and hate it more today.

 

[JakeNBake59]

still dont like this deal, sure our stars get abused but if the league actually did its job and cared for player safety this wouldnt be necessary

We have proven that you dont need this mould of player to win 1 cup let alone back to back cups

 

[Pens17]

A few things here.

#1 Other GMs are looking at the same draft. That second round pick is slightly less valuable than the first we traded. We could easily flip that for a D-man.

#2 We are looking at just under 19 million in cap space right now. After we resign the RFAs, we probably still have 6-7 million to address the second needs.

#3 Reaves does make the team better

Most assuredly, Sid's mother, father, sister, and girlfriend agree with you!

 

[Zero Pucks]

It is better, but how much better? The hyperbole of we traded a first round pick for Reaves is laughable. We moved down 20 spots in a draft where 25-60 were very similar in talent. Is it better to pick at 31? Yes, but what do we lose 20 picks later? Probably a less difficult decision with one or two guys we were considering at 31 still being there.

That's the thing. People complaining about moving down some slots have still have no clue who we passed up or who we're getting. Chances are the difference isn't going to be that significant if any either. I'm gonna love it if Kostin busts and the whoever we get at 51 has a legit NHL career.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

But it IS an actual question, whether you look at it from game theory, probability, statistics or whatever.

Well yeah, if you hate having a choice, then it is a question. After all, there's 20 less players to pick from at #51. Picking only last overall or not at all is even more beneficial in that case, though.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I am going to lose it. We didn't give up a first round pick for Reaves. We moved back 20 spots. Don't let the truth get in the way of your argument.

Here, let me help.

JUNE 23: Pittsburgh Penguins acquire forward Ryan Reaves and a 2017 second-round pick (No. 51) from the St. Louis Blues for forward Oskar Sundqvist and a 2017 first-round pick (No. 31) | Reaves traded to Penguins by Blues

It doesn't matter if it was the 31st pick, it was a 1st rounder and there were still good players available. You don't have to look any further than the kid they ended up taking to find a 6'3", 210lb LW/C with what scouts refer to as top-3 talent.

The longer you wait to pick, the lower your chances at landing a guy who is going to turn into an effective NHLer. That's just the reality. I have no idea how people are arguing that it's not a big deal to drop from 31 to 51. The consensus seems to be that the 31st pick is garbage, and "not really" a 1st round pick, yet... The 51st... Isn't garbage?

I don't know.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'm curious to know what Sam has to say about the deal.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Yuck.

Just....yuck.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If we got an upgraded version of Rowney who can play fast and hard while being good on the forecheck/cycle and occasionally stepping in when other teams take liberties I like this move.

If he's going to go out of his way to hit guys just to do it and run around looking to start ****, I think this is a bad move.

I expect that the plan is the former. If he can effectively do that, I'll be thrilled with the guy. May not love the cost, but I'd love him. I don't expect him to solve our injury issues, but I think a guy like him can be effective. But we also need to give him some talent to play with. He can't be lined up with Rowney and kunitz. He needs to be creating space for a line combo that can score. Wilson is solid for that imo, or Archie. But now we need a 4c for sure.

As for between the whistle stuff, I want him to buy in to what Sully is preaching. And I don't see why he wouldn't. Everyone else has. I don't want him being clown all game long. If something egregious happens, step in. Otherwise, just take a number and skate away so he can find them during play.

 

[WayneSid9987]

The one thing that drove me up the wall last season was smaller, more skilled guys feeling 10 feet tall against. Seen it happen in more than a handful of games. Maybe that'll be curbed a little now. I hated seeing that. I suspect JR seen it too.

I certainly don't expect the cheapshots against the Sid's and Geno's to stop. Not at all.
But it'll be nice to have a guy to dole out the punishment when it does inevitably happen.

But i'll say it again. This is like adding Matt Martin on the roster. Not Tom Sestito.

 

[Shrimper]

Damn....

Am I meant to be impressed?

 

[Zero Pucks]

Here, let me help.



It doesn't matter if it was the 31st pick, it was a 1st rounder and there were still good players available. You don't have to look any further than the kid they ended up taking to find a 6'3", 210lb LW/C with what scouts refer to as top-3 talent.

The longer you wait to pick, the lower your chances at landing a guy who is going to turn into an effective NHLer. That's just the reality. I have no idea how people are arguing that it's not a big deal to drop from 31 to 51. The consensus seems to be that the 31st pick is garbage, and "not really" a 1st round pick, yet... The 51st... Isn't garbage?

I don't know.

Because the draft generally becomes a giant **** show anytime after the first 10 picks or so, especially with this draft. There's no more clear defined talent at 31 than there will be at 51.

 

[froods]

Here, let me help.



It doesn't matter if it was the 31st pick, it was a 1st rounder and there were still good players available. You don't have to look any further than the kid they ended up taking to find a 6'3", 210lb LW/C with what scouts refer to as top-3 talent.

The longer you wait to pick, the lower your chances at landing a guy who is going to turn into an effective NHLer. That's just the reality. I have no idea how people are arguing that it's not a big deal to drop from 31 to 51. The consensus seems to be that the 31st pick is garbage, and "not really" a 1st round pick, yet... The 51st... Isn't garbage?

I don't know.

It does matter if it is 31. It changes the value. GMs could care less about the round. They care about the number of the pick and the drop off points. There was a big drop off around 20-25. That makes the 31st overall pick less valuable than a random 1st round pick let's say in 2018.

So do you think the 31st and 32nd picks have a huge difference in value? They have no difference. Also, to you Hainsey point, trading at the deadline is different than trading in the summer. Values go way up at the deadline.

And I am not saying the 31st pick is not in the first round. I am saying that a lot of people are *****ing because we traded a first for Reaves. That is such a disingenuous statement. Leaving out the second and the fact that we had the last pick in the first is hyperbole. Plain and simple.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Am I meant to be impressed?

I mean, Reaves clearly won the fight, and he was going up against a guy who is a pretty good fighter. I thought it was kinda fun to watch. It's also really dang hard to fight people on skates. So objectively, I guess it's impressive.


It would be a lot more impressive if real life was NHL Hitz and you got a powerplay for winning a fight, but it's not and you don't, so it doesn't really help the team.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

We traded a pick and waiver fodder for an impact player and a pick with slightly less of a chance of turning out good than the one we originally had. Reaves is quite a unique and specific player (not just an ordinary goon) so I expect management to know what they're doing.

 

[exHornet]

I'm not crazy about the move, but if he takes Wilson off the ice for 5 minutes at a time, or removes Dubinsky for 5 minutes, that's good for me. The problem is, he's a regular season player only. Ideally I would have wanted a 6D like Englland for this role, but whatever. JR and Sully must have thought it was really necessary.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, Reaves clearly won the fight, and he was going up against a guy who is a pretty good fighter. I thought it was kinda fun to watch. It's also really dang hard to fight people on skates. So objectively, I guess it's impressive.


It would be a lot more impressive if real life was NHL Hitz and you got a powerplay for winning a fight, but it's not and you don't, so it doesn't really help the team.

Watch Reaves' foot movement. He's actually a really decent skater, especially for a guy his size. That's what you should be getting from that.

He's had quite a few hits he dumps the puck on the forecheck and his mobility allows him to separate from the defender and plaster the puck retriever, which is no small shakes here (and which is also why he's making way more than a fighter usually would). He's got some decent physical skills outside of fighting, which is why its weird that people are so fixated on his fights here.

Seriously, people should brush up on his hits and his fourth line play more than his fighting.

 

[Terrapin]

Am I meant to be impressed?

I could post some clips of Kuhnackl falling down repeatedly? Would that impress you?