Confirmed with Link: Pens trade 1st (No. 31) + Oskar Sundqvist for Ryan Reaves and Blues 2nd (No. 51)

[Shwag33]

Isn't the fact that he is 30, only has one year left on his deal, but St. Louis protected him in the expansion draft say everything?

Yep.

Here's on article from St. Louis. They kept reaves over perron.

https://www.stlouisgametime.com/201...more-important-to-the-blues-than-david-perron

 

[MrBrightside]

Is Reaves a PK'er?

He is not.

 

[froods]

Sure. It says JR had already approached St. Louis about the deal, and they agreed to it in principle.

https://bleedinblue.com/2017/06/16/st-louis-blues-protecting-ryan-reaves-makes-sense/

 

[Beauner]

Thought: I wonder if the players voiced their desire for a guy like Reaves? It wasn't just our stars who took cheap shots. Might ease the guys minds knowing there will be consequences should one of them get run

 

[The Old Master]

Thought: I wonder if the players voiced their desire for a guy like Reaves? It wasn't just our stars who took cheap shots. Might ease the guys minds knowing there will be consequences should one of them get run

maybe...but not at that cost.

 

[Erz8771]

I LOVE this trade. Cant wait to see Reaves in a Pens jersey. I watched my fair share of St Louis games the past few seasons and Reaves can play hockey. Anyone who thinks hes wasting a roster spot just to fight and "protect" has no idea what hes capable of and hasnt actually watched him play.

 

[Terrapin]

Is Reaves a PK'er?

No, but Hagelin, Rust, Wilson/Rowney/Kuhn, and whoever our 3rd and 4th line centers are.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Reading this thread, I can't decide if Reaves is a pea brained thug who is lucky to receive a salary; or if he's a 10 foot tall solution to all of our problems. We've got guys calling our players trash to justify it, guys calling our front office trash in opposition to it.

In other words, I am amused and I approve of this thread.


Also, in my book, hyperbole is second only to sarcasm among the great arts of communication.

Reading this thread it's obvious we have tons of people who have never watched Reaves play and the weird cult of Kuhn is still alive and well... sadly enough.

Board despised Craig Adams and couldn't wait to launch him to the moon... board starts cult for his doppelgänger.

What's the saying... oh ya... never change Hfboards, never change.

Opposing fan coming in peace, but have to say I agree with this statement and I've watched him play.

He may not look good on the analytics side, but people are legitimately afraid of this guy. He is a real physical specimen with a mean streak, can hit, fight and instill fear out there.

He can also skate, is a great team mate and really won't really hurt you defensively. He is also very disciplined.

There are not many guys like Reaves left, and yes the league is changing but you don't want guys like Malkin fighting, and the abuse and stick work Crosby takes is absolutely insane. Reaves is going to drastically cut that down for you guys, and both his teammates and the fans are going to love him for it.

I wouldn't get too excited about the picks either. Your first was basically a 2nd, so in that context your just changing position in the 2nd round. Reaves and a 2nd round pick for a better 2nd round pick is not an overpayment. I would imagine Sundqvist got involved to even out the value a bit, and maybe someone else in your division was trying to get him.

Either way, this trade helps you guys and I like it.

Apparently Kuhn, better known as a warm body that spends most of his time laying on the ice, is a better option than one of the best fourth liners in the league.

Only around here... mind boggling.

 

[MrBrightside]

The idea of this being a deterrent has to stop. If you want to argue that he is physical and can play some, whatever. But this deterrent stuff just doesn't exist. The Pens had Asham, Godard, and Engelland the night of the Isles' gong show.

 

[Erz8771]

https://bleedinblue.com/2017/06/16/st-louis-blues-protecting-ryan-reaves-makes-sense/

I wonder if the Blues protected Reaves knowing we wanted him?

 

[buzzworthy]

I like the move. Reaves is a rare combination of a big time hitter and a fighter. There aren't too many guys that can do both, and do it well. The Pens are pretty banged up right now, and if getting a guy like Reaves prevents others from hurting Letang, Crosby, and others, it is well worth it. He is well liked in the locker room, and I believe he will do much better offensively with the Pens than with the Blues. Sully will keep him in line.

 

[Erz8771]

Reading this thread it's obvious we have tons of people who have never watched Reaves play and the weird cult of Kuhn is still alive and well... sadly enough.

Board despised Craig Adams and couldn't wait to launch him to the moon... board starts cult for his doppelgänger.

What's the saying... oh ya... ever change Hfboards, never change.



Apparently Kuhn, better known as a warm body that spends most of his time laying on the ice, is a better option than one of the best fourth liners in the league.

Only around here... mind boggling.

My thoughts aswell. Good post.

 

[Asuna]

i hated the price to get reaves. paying a first rounder for a 4th line player is just bad asset management. but whatever. i do think he's a better player than given credit for around here, so i'll be excited to see what he can do here.

i would bet the pens sign boyle now....

 

[JTG]

That would do it if he was on ice to get those hits often enough. And having someone being effective at that playing say 12 minutes a game would do the trick. But here is the problem. Reaves was averaging in POs 7:46, 7:30, 6:08, 8:43, 6:10, 9:34 TOI/gp. So questions are: Is that enough time to 'punish' them? Or would you be okay for him to play more, like 11+ minutes a game in POs? Would he be productive enough, defensively responsible enough to justify that TOI?

Keep in mind that last two POs guys on the PIT 4th line were good enough to chip in 1 pt every 3-6 games. And only two guys on PIT with under 11 minutes per game were
- Sundqvist (2 gp, 9:17/gp)
- Archibald (4 gp, 7:51/gp)
In other words they were injury call ups, not someone penciled there if the roster was fully healthy.

And who is to say he doesn't play more here? Who is to say we don't try to make him into a PK'er? He has the wheels. You can adjust a guys ice time. Just because he averages 8 mins a game, that's exactly what it is...an average. Some nights he's going to play 6...some nights he's going to play 12. If we need him, he's there. That's the point...and he can play hockey. It's not like he's a good like Godard or Laraque who can do very little else.

Speaking from a point of necessity, I don't agree that we need that. We won two Cups without it, and the Hawks have won 3 without any real "tough guys."

But I'd welcome Reaves going all 2009 Kunitz and driving guys like Werenski, Subban, Ellis, Eckholm and Karlsson into the third row on the forecheck. That's the kinda toughness we lack, if we can even say we "lack" anything as back to back Cup champs.

As long as he's disciplined, and doesn't let some macho stupidity rub off on guys who *need* to keep their noses outta that ****, I'm down with Reaves. I still don't like the price, but whatever.



Not much. Every time I've ever seen/read about him, it involves a fight.

Winning 2 Cups without it is a moot point. Our guys had liberties taken against them. It's like when I work with a customer and they say, "well the last person I worked with let me do this." Well just because the last guy you worked with let you do it doesn't make it right, nor does it mean it's the only way to accomplish something.

The liberties against our guys need to stop, and we need to start dishing it out on our own. We are not a hard team to play against physically, and our guys routinely take abuse and no one defends them. We need to add that dimension to our game where we can be hard on forechecks and throw some weight around when we need to.

The price sucks. I agree with that, but what are you going to do. My only thought is that Sundqvist isn't much of a prospect at this point. I disagree, but whatever.

The idea of this being a deterrent has to stop. If you want to argue that he is physical and can play some, whatever. But this deterrent stuff just doesn't exist. The Pens had Asham, Godard, and Engelland the night of the Isles' gong show.

How long ago did those guys play for Pittsburgh? Deterrents do exist. Pugilists don't. As I've said before, if Reaves starts running down a team's top defensemen, it's going to make the opponents pests keep from running ours. It's just hockey, and that's how it is. You don't want to write a check that your teammate is going to have to cash. If Dubinsky wants to get froggy and start running Letang, Reaves is a big, fast, angry man, and he can do the same to Werenski.

 

[Cherpak]

The best part of this is that Reaves gets to start his Penguins career against his old team.

I'm sort of indifferent about the trade. I wasn't overly impressed with Sundqvist and the 1st rnd pick in a weak draft probably wasn't going to bring back a player we could use anytime soon so getting a 2nd rounder 20 picks back isn't all that much different.

After 2 consecutive cups I'm going to give JR the benefit of the doubt. He stated we need a more physical presence since the league doesn't seem to want to do anything about it and he went out and got it. One thing about JR I admire, he doesn't just give lip service. When he says he's going to do something he does it.

 

[wej20]

The more I think about the deal, the less it bothers me. Reaves is good on the forecheck, he's tough, and he's a well-liked lockerroom guy. Sundqvist has some potential, but looks like he's not going to be ready to take that bottom 6 C role that we need when we need it, so might as well use him as a chip to acquire something else we need.

Think Rowney's emergence made Sundqvist expendable. He wasn't going to make the team this year so probably made sense to trade him.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

https://bleedinblue.com/2017/06/16/st-louis-blues-protecting-ryan-reaves-makes-sense/

All that tells me is that they valued him above Lehtera and his albatross contract, Perron who seems to be playing himself out of the league, and two nothingmancers.

Again, seems pretty likely with how much JR's been talking up bringing in muscle and the confidence with which he spoke despite nobody being available in FA, and St. Louis protecting Reaves despite his role/contract status, that some sort of agreement was in place beforehand.

Winning 2 Cups without it is a moot point. Our guys had liberties taken against them. It's like when I work with a customer and they say, "well the last person I worked with let me do this." Well just because the last guy you worked with let you do it doesn't make it right, nor does it mean it's the only way to accomplish something.

The liberties against our guys need to stop, and we need to start dishing it out on our own. We are not a hard team to play against physically, and our guys routinely take abuse and no one defends them. We need to add that dimension to our game where we can be hard on forechecks and throw some weight around when we need to.

The price sucks. I agree with that, but what are you going to do. My only thought is that Sundqvist isn't much of a prospect at this point. I disagree, but whatever.

It's not a moot point, though. It's a very legitimate point. And it's not the same as Shero seeing the '09 win and saying Sid and Geno don't need wingers or something like that. It's not a "it worked once, this is the only way to do it" situation. Speed and skill are the name of the game in today's NHL, and more and more teams will be shifting to that based on the success of the Pens, Hawks and now Preds. I just don't want JR to ignore that, especially since he built a team directly based on that style and it won back to back Cups.

Our guys have had liberties taken against them from the time they took the ice as rookies. It's been a decade-plus of the same stuff, night in and night out, regardless of whom we had in the lineup. Reaves isn't going to stop it, but if he is going to go after Werenski and drive him into the 3rd row after Dubinsky takes a shot at Sid, that's fine. But Reaves isn't going to intimidate some puke like Dubinsky into suddenly changing the style of game that got him to the NHL and has brought him success. Just like you're not gonna change Kesler, or Downie, or any other ******** from going after Sid and Geno because that's their only avenue of hope for success.

I adamantly disagree with the notion of guys backing off because of the presence of a player like Reaves. I don't disagree that it probably gives Sid and Geno a psychological boost knowing there's a big, tough dude ready to go in case they need it. But I don't think it's a real change in how any games will be played out. I hope I'm wrong, but we've seen our stars get punished, pushed around, and get their fair share of cheap shots for the entirety of their careers. Didn't matter if we had Godard, or Engelland then, and it won't matter that we have Reaves now. If anything, I'd imagine that's going to lead to the game becoming a total ****-show. It's not going to stop the shots, it's going to escalate them and lead to a pile of garbage like we saw in the Flyers series.

Again, I'm excited to see if Reaves really is as good a 4th liner with punishing physicality on the forecheck as some people suggest. I'll take that all day. But I don't want the guy trying to fight an unwinnable fight in trying to be the nuclear option out there, consistently putting this team on the PK and doing nothing to stop/deter the garbage in the meantime.

 

[Liquid Gel]

The best part of this is that Reaves gets to start his Penguins career against his old team.

I'm sort of indifferent about the trade. I wasn't overly impressed with Sundqvist and the 1st rnd pick in a weak draft probably wasn't going to bring back a player we could use anytime soon so getting a 2nd rounder 20 picks back isn't all that much different.

After 2 consecutive cups I'm going to give JR the benefit of the doubt. He stated we need a more physical presence since the league doesn't seem to want to do anything about it and he went out and got it. One thing about JR I admire, he doesn't just give lip service. When he says he's going to do something he does it.

 

[Cherpak]

Think Rowney's emergence made Sundqvist expendable. He wasn't going to make the team this year so probably made sense to trade him.

As the playoffs went on I was thinking that very thing. Rowney seems more than capable of handling the 4th line center duties right now than Sundqvist. Sundqvist may still eventually be the better option but the team just can't wait for that to happen.

 

[froods]

i hated the price to get reaves. paying a first rounder for a 4th line player is just bad asset management. but whatever. i do think he's a better player than given credit for around here, so i'll be excited to see what he can do here.

i would bet the pens sign boyle now....

I am going to lose it. We didn't give up a first round pick for Reaves. We moved back 20 spots. Don't let the truth get in the way of your argument.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Something to note is that Reaves used to mainly practice boxing during the offseason, until last year where he focused on the hockey and made significant improvements on the ice.

 

[froods]

maybe...but not at that cost.

Please help me understand what "that cost" is!
.

 

[Dr Frasier Crane]

Please help me understand what "that cost" is!
.

I did a few pages back. It's essentially a 6th round pick and Sundqvist.

 

[Hell Yeah!!!]

The idea of this being a deterrent has to stop. If you want to argue that he is physical and can play some, whatever. But this deterrent stuff just doesn't exist. The Pens had Asham, Godard, and Engelland the night of the Isles' gong show.

Nobody can ever guarantee anything, **** happens. No amount of secret service can guarantee a president is not shot...but to think having them is not a deterrent is just as wrong.

I didn't like the trade at first after the initial hfboards induced OMG we just traded a 1st for Tanner Glass reaction.

Where I am now:

We are in win mode so although I'd love another sexy prospect in our pipeline it is not priority 1.

We moved back from 31 to 51. 31 was not going to be sexy and 51 is not trash.

We moved Sundqvist, different people may have different takes on Oscar but I soured on him the past year after seeing him with the Pens and it seems that management did as well.

Blues fans loved Reaves, the players seemed to and fans of division opponents are happy he is gone. Those are all great signs.
Skates, forechecks, hits, fights when neecessary and great at it, high character.

This team took a ton of ****, particularly headshots, in this years playoffs and to me it was a testament to their character that they said well we're just going to have to take getting knocked in the head this year because mgmt didn't protect us, the league wont either and trade deadline is passed. Getting Reaves is a critical signal from mgmt to players that they saw this and they will do what they can to protect them (while still getting someone that can play). Sure Reaves can't stop a gunman on the grassy knoll, but ask our hobbits if they feel safer with him on the ice and I think I know their answer.

The idea that this team and Geno and Letang is now going to lose their **** during games because of Reaves is asinine. Sure, Sully gonna let that happen.

 

[Asuna]

I am going to lose it. We didn't give up a first round pick for Reaves. We moved back 20 spots. Don't let the truth get in the way of your argument.

dropping 20 spots and giving up a prospect for a 4th line player is still bad asset management. spin it however you like.