Confirmed with Link: Pens trade 1st (No. 31) + Oskar Sundqvist for Ryan Reaves and Blues 2nd (No. 51)

[Empoleon8771]

Now that I've gotten to sleep on this deal, this deal mostly seems whatever. Reaves didn't have that terrible of a season last year, he had pretty decent advanced stats (1.7% CF% Rel TM, 13.3% GF% Rel TM) while getting a metric **** ton of defensive zone starts (had 86 OZFO, 251 DZFO and 234 NZFO). I think his bad stat line could be explained by a really poor usage by Hitchcock, at least partially. I feel like he'd be able to hit 20 or 25 points here, which is fine for a 4th liner. His linemates were a lot worse without him than with him last year, which makes me think he'll be able to help the 4th line if they use him right.

Now add on the speed and physicality and I think he should be okay here. I'm hoping for 10 goals, 20 points and a **** load of hits while playing more than 8 minutes a game while getting mostly defensive zone starts. I think that's a fair expectation and that's not bad for a 4th liner. It honestly seems like a lot of other fans (not just Blues fans, Wild fans, Predators fans and such) are saying it's a really good thing the Penguins added him. I hope they're right.

 

[Dr Frasier Crane]

Even if talent is relatively close between the 31st and 51st pick, you're still removing 20 potential guys from the pool. That's significant.

But it's not. At least according to every draft pick valuation measure calculated based on historical performance of players in a given spot.

You're removing 20 guys from our pool that are very close in value as the guy at 51.

The difference between the 31st and 51st pick, historically, is the equivalent of a 6th round pick.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I mean, I'm always a "toughness is good, but IF they can play" kinda guy. But yeah, this is really striking thing that people wanted this for years and then when they get it, it's suddenly too much?

It's not too much, it's not enough--in the "guy can play" area. Toughness is only good if it's entirely a bonus...if you're not sacrificing some other area for it. The bottom line for me is that Reaves's point production is less than what the Pens were getting from guys they already had. I'm not okay sacrificing point production for toughness. I'm definitely not okay giving up assets to sacrifice point production for toughness.


I'm also definitely not okay with giving up assets for a player who won't help in the playoffs. The regular season is ****ing close to meaningless.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Even if talent is relatively close between the 31st and 51st pick, you're still removing 20 potential guys from the pool. That's significant.

I don't know, man. I'm not like, blinding rage, seeing red livid about the trade, but we'd better not see Sid or Geno catch any **** anymore like people seem to (erroneously, imo) think Reaves will make sure of. Again, even if he's a solid to good 4th liner, he plays 8 minutes a night and averages 10pts a season. A guy like that isn't worth skipping out on 20 picks and tossing in the towel on a kid that, at worst, could fill in at 4C for a bit during an injury.

We didn't sign Reaves for his production though.

 

[Pens x]

$4.5 million is way too much cap for a guy that's never topped 13 points in a season and he's only scored more than 8 points in a season twice.

Losing a first round pick is an extra kick in the butt.

There is no reason to spend more than $2 mill on a fourth line player. I was excited to see what they would do with the extra cap space once Fleury was taken by Vegas, now not so much.

 

[froods]

Even if talent is relatively close between the 31st and 51st pick, you're still removing 20 potential guys from the pool. That's significant.

I don't know, man. I'm not like, blinding rage, seeing red livid about the trade, but we'd better not see Sid or Geno catch any **** anymore like people seem to (erroneously, imo) think Reaves will make sure of. Again, even if he's a solid to good 4th liner, he plays 8 minutes a night and averages 10pts a season. A guy like that isn't worth skipping out on 20 picks and tossing in the towel on a kid that, at worst, could fill in at 4C for a bit during an injury.

I don't agree, but now I feel like we are talking apples to apples. I see your point for sure.

 

[Tender Rip]

The only issue I have with this is, a 1st and Sundqvist could have landed us Shattenkirk. Not that it mattered, and who knows if we could resign him, but as far as 'overpayment', this is where i see that point.

Besides HATING the thought of paying big money for Shattenkirk (unless we are trading Schultz), what does the pick and Sundqvist have to do with that? Shats' an UFA. No assets needed if we were to sign him.

 

[froods]

$4.5 million is way too much cap for a guy that's never topped 13 points in a season and he's only scored more than 8 points in a season twice.

Losing a first round pick is an extra kick in the butt.

There is no reason to spend more than $2 mill on a fourth line player. I was excited to see what they would do with the extra cap space once Fleury was taken by Vegas, now not so much.

Huh?

 

[Asuna]

$4.5 million is way too much cap for a guy that's never topped 13 points in a season and he's only scored more than 8 points in a season twice.

Losing a first round pick is an extra kick in the butt.

There is no reason to spend more than $2 mill on a fourth line player. I was excited to see what they would do with the extra cap space once Fleury was taken by Vegas, now not so much.

his cap hit is 1.1m

 

[Erz8771]

$4.5 million is way too much cap for a guy that's never topped 13 points in a season and he's only scored more than 8 points in a season twice.

Losing a first round pick is an extra kick in the butt.

There is no reason to spend more than $2 mill on a fourth line player. I was excited to see what they would do with the extra cap space once Fleury was taken by Vegas, now not so much.

Who is making 4.5 mil?

 

[Giskard]

People that don't like this trade.

1. Statement - He is a goon.
Reality - he can play hockey regardless of his fighting ability

2. Statement - We gave up a first rounder for him.
Reality - We dropped 20 spots in a draft where the talent is somewhat equal for the next 30 picks.

3. Statement - We lost our center depth and have nobody if Sid or Geno goes down.
Reality - Oscar Sundqvist was never going to help us in that area. If GMJR doesn't resign Bones and probably even bring in another guy, we were screwed regardless of this deal. Sundqvist was never anything better than a 4th line center, if that.

4. Statement - this trade changes our identity.
Reality - Reaves can skate, control the puck, and is a good locker room guy. It doesn't change our identity at all.

I agree with your "statement" post.
I like that we brought Reaves in, I remember see him play against us, and he was very noticeable in the physical aspect.

 

[Terrapin]

I mean, I'm always a "toughness is good, but IF they can play" kinda guy. But yeah, this is really striking thing that people wanted this for years and then when they get it, it's suddenly too much?

All it says to me is that there are some posters that want a specific reality of the team/league, and they will not waiver from that vision one bit. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm now seeing the dishonesty in their posts.

Make no mistake, these same guys would complain about anyone that has the potential to get in a fight.

Kane's off ice issues
Lucic's speed
Simmonds cheapness
etc
etc

Again, nothing wrong with it. Just learn to take the posts with a grain of salt

 

[froods]

Besides HATING the thought of paying big money for Shattenkirk (unless we are trading Schultz), what does the pick and Sundqvist have to do with that? Shats' an UFA. No assets needed if we were to sign him.

I get this idea. That first round pick was more valuable at the deadline. We lost value the closer we got to the draft and the more rounds we won. Price of winning the cup!

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

$4.5 million is way too much cap for a guy that's never topped 13 points in a season and he's only scored more than 8 points in a season twice.

Losing a first round pick is an extra kick in the butt.

There is no reason to spend more than $2 mill on a fourth line player. I was excited to see what they would do with the extra cap space once Fleury was taken by Vegas, now not so much.

Fortunately, he only makes like $1.125 million or something like that. Still not worth it when they have 4th liners on ELCs who produce more, but not nearly as bad as you're thinking.

Paying a 4th line enforcer a $4.5 million cap hit is the kind of thing that should probably get a GM fired.

 

[Shrimper]

Who is making 4.5 mil?

I think he is getting confused with Jori Lehtera who went to Philly

 

[froods]

Who is making 4.5 mil?

Somebody's opinion on this trade is about to change

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Klim Kostin
Ht/Wt: 6' 3"/185 lbs
Position: C/RW
Team: Dynamo (VHL)

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Klim-Kostin

So glad we don't have this guy in the org!

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We didn't sign Reaves for his production though.

No, we traded for him on some phantom concept that a tough guy will end shots against Sid and Geno whereas we have tons of evidence to the contrary during the years where we employed some or all of Godard, Rupp, Asham, and Engelland.

Again, as an enforcer, I don't think Reaves does a damn thing to deter/prevent the cheap shots. I will never be able to honestly believe in that based on the way we saw Sid and Geno still catching **** with tough guys in the lineup. But if Reaves is as good a 4th liner as people (who have watched him and know much more about him than I do) think he is, and he's as effective on the forecheck and in the hitting dept., so be it. Still a steep price to pay for a 4th liner, any 4th liner, but it is what it is.

The odds of a guy panning out at 31 vs 51 might not be a stark difference, but I don't agree with the thought that removing 20 more players from our draft board isn't a big deal in a draft where, so I keep hearing, there is talent beyond the usual top-10 picks.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

The fact that every central fan apart from St. Louis fans are happy that he's gone pleases me so much.

 

[Giskard]

Who is making 4.5 mil?

Ryan Reaves ... his contract is 4.5 million ... in 4 years.

 

[Erz8771]

I think he is getting confused with Jori Lehtera who went to Philly

Haha ok. Im down with Reeves. But definitely wouldnt be if he was making 4 mil.

 

[Terrapin]

Besides HATING the thought of paying big money for Shattenkirk (unless we are trading Schultz), what does the pick and Sundqvist have to do with that? Shats' an UFA. No assets needed if we were to sign him.

The point being is people weren't willing to give up Sundqvist for Shattenkirk at the deadline. We gave him up for Reaves. So in that sense, and that sense only, I can see the argument for overpaying for Reaves.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think there's always room for a mix of physical toughness and skill in the lineup. Go watch some St. Louis games and watch Reaves on the forecheck- he's surprisingly good about dumping the puck in and causing havoc immediately behind the opponent's net during the puck retrieval. Now think about having the Pens' 4th line be able to take advantage of that chaos and finish.

That's what I think is more of the thinking than the pugilism.

Then sell him as a guy who will be an upgrade to the actual play of the fourth line. Stupid price to pay for it, no matter how small it is, but fine sell him as a guy who can elevate your fourth line with his play.

But who are we kidding, given the comments by JR there is some fantasy that this will prevent cheap shots on our stars. People are going to be sorely disappointed if that fairy tale is the expectation.

And worse, Reaves knows those expectations. Which means that he will not be that elevated fourth liner but will be running around like an idiot because someone checked Crosby.

Again, I do not care about the price, I reject the premise completely that adding him will do anything to 'protect' Crosby or our other stars, and saying that I completely fail to see the point of him.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't agree, but now I feel like we are talking apples to apples. I see your point for sure.

Certainly a difference of opinion, but it appears like we're on the same page in terms of understanding for sure.

 

[Erz8771]

Ryan Reaves ... his contract is 4.5 million ... in 4 years.

He has 1 yr left on his contract at a shade over 1 mil.