Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Teh offseason! All your defense are belong to us

[BusinessGoose]

Zucker for JVR @60%

 

[Jobeycool]

Hextall going the way of the patient man... hope it pays off for the Pens.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Am I the only person who thinks that maybe it's time for Geno to be moved to wing? Put Geno and Rakell with Sid. Bump Rust and Guentzel down. Trade for a 2C and let him mesh with those two.

I always thought that when they aged Crosby and Malkin should play with each other. Kind of like Lemieux and Jagr circa 96-97 and then 00-01. They were put together because Lemieux started that season struggling big time, as he wasn't able to carry a line anymore. I think it'll be good for both of them as it'll increase their personal production and reduce any age related frustration. But need another strong center to pull that off.

 

[reino]

Problem is Malkin won't make 1st line that much better if all. 2nd line without Malkin is much worse.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The elephant in the room about Miller is hes a UFA next summer. Hes going to want a long term contract in the 7+ mil range or more. Yeah hes great for 5mil right now, but what about next contract?

The advantage of trading for him now is that you can figure that out before the signing. All UFAs have some degree of risk built into them, but if he's putting up 70+ on this team (hypothetically speaking) I'd have zero problems clearing out deadweight on the roster to keep him.

I mean, it's all hypothetical at this point.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Most GMs don’t know anything about the players. They just base their desire to acquire a player based on girth and how well that player has performed against their team in recent games.

Source: me, former GM

Giddy for Girth: The GM Story

 

[Tender Rip]

Why are people still on “top6 winger”?

We have Guentzel, Rakell and Rust. We have Zucker in a pinch. We have Z, DOC, Puus and Poulin who will be looking for chances to prove themselves that should not be 4th line/strictly bottom 6.

If none of these guys make a big jump we’re in trouble anyway, and there’s always the deadline to get a supplementary piece.

We’d benefit more by dealing Dumo/Petts/Kapanen for an upgrade to partner Letang and a very good PK’ing 4th liner (tough to play - hopefully fast and physical). IMO.

 

[Peat]

The elephant in the room about Miller is hes a UFA next summer. Hes going to want a long term contract in the 7+ mil range or more. Yeah hes great for 5mil right now, but what about next contract?

I'd be a little wary about how quickly power forwards can age out but if the team is sure that's not him, that he can keep doing what he's doing until he's 34, then he'd be a great keep if the contract is fair. That creates a hugely loaded top six, one you can maybe leverage into a three line model again.

It'd be dumb to let Miller walk for under $9M if he's PPG and also a + player. That will be ~10% of the cap going forward.

You'd trade Marino to get him, allow Zucker to get his 2/$6M elsewhere and hope Dumo gets paid royally by some dumb team. It may stop you from signing Jarry to a silly contract...but I'd rather give Miller $50M than Jarry. Goaltenders are voodoo.

Don't bring back Jarry and you're off looking for another goalie with his ceiling. Do that in UFA and, based on this year, you spend 4.75m-5.25m. Don't know what Jarry wants but the likelihood is it would be a false economy to wave adieu.

Would also point out that next year's options in UFA for goalies are Jarry, Frederick Andersen, followed by Quick, Varlamov, Mike Smith, Raanta, that Nedjelkovic guy who had a good run for the Canes then sucked for Detroit... you don't really want to be going there for a starting goalie. I hope this team tries to sign Jarry to a reasonable extension this summer tbh.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

We’d benefit more by dealing Dumo/Petts/Kapanen for an upgrade to partner Letang and a very good PK’ing 4th liner (tough to play - hopefully fast and physical). IMO.

Depends on the quality of the winger. Who are we talking about? We got 17 points out of Zucker last year. Kap may have a flat year again. None of the other guys you mentioned are top 6 players.

If Miller got PP1 here (which he should) then I think 70+ is realistic. He's a 5.25mil cap hit. He can play Center when we get injured. It adds depth for PP1, which hurt us last year when Sid and Geno unavailable. Rust would be the 6th man.
Last year Miller finished 31 points ahead of 2nd place on their team. Carried their asses. So while it was an outlier year, he should be able to do damage here too.
And it's not just about the comparison between him and Zuck. It would allow Rakell and Malkin to play their best games. It would boost O-zone time significantly. Less time defending.

Your idea has merit and I'd usually favor minute eating D over wingers, but in this case the upgrade is so significant that it could make us contenders.
Look what happened in Edmonton when they brought Kane in for a playoff run.
The last few years we're losing by fine margins, even with awful goaltending. We just need a little more.

 

[HandshakeLine]

My controversial take is that what we the best option to improve the team for the prices we have available should be it. If there is no way Vancouver parts with Miller, see what those assets can get you elsewhere.

 

[Peat]

My controversial take is that what we the best option to improve the team for the prices we have available should be it. If there is no way Vancouver parts with Miller, see what those assets can get you elsewhere.

Downright rebellious.

I am struggling to see many targets worth getting out of bed for in the popular rumours after Miller though. Chychrun chat seems to have died, and I can't recall how good his defensive game is anyway. Seen Beauvillier's and Konecny's names on one trade board, but I can't imagine their teams trading here. There's always people we don't know about of course. But on top of that, then you've got to narrow it down to the teams who want our assets, which mostly means dmen... it's why we're fixated on Miller, I guess.

Tbh I find myself mainly browsing capfriendly to try and guess the best ELC someone would give for Marino. I don't love the idea but it's the best way of improving the team I can think of.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, we so very rarely actually see rumors come to fruition that I find it hard to believe that anyone rumored to come here actually comes here.

But moves have to be made, that's for sure. I personally think that a move for some bottom 6 help plus maybe a prospect or two is most likely given the need to shed cap and retool there, but I don't pretend on having any idea of who that might be.

 

[Peat]

The Flyers, a notoriously reactionary organization, refuse to pay the cost to get out of JVR's contract even though it would have likely landed them Gaudreau.

Feel free to say "the Flyers are a tirefire organization run by clowns", because they are, but I'm fully confident they would have instantly traded JVR if the cost wasn't prohibitive. The fact that they refused to do it, when they are the type of organization who has never been hesitant to do that, tells me it's too expensive.

I think the best example of what it costs to move cap right now is that Max Pacioretty, on the back of a 37 in 39 campaign, costs assets to move at 1 x 7m. Not a huge one, but still something.



Take a quick look at Capfriendly and - not counting LTIR, I think, so off - but Tampa and Washington are both 5m plus over. Florida, us, Vegas, and Vancouver are all over too. Habs, Flyers, Oilers all can't fill a 23 man roster right now. Columbus have to move a guy to fit in Laine, Boston for Bergeron. Toronto and LA would be close enough to cap with a 23 man roster that they might like to move someone. I don't know what the reasonable number for Kaako is but it could put NYR in the kaak. If Colorado want a punchier plan than Newhook at 2C for next season, I think they might need to make moves as well.

Or in other words, not a lot of reasons for teams to drop their prices on taking cap anytime soon.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Downright rebellious.

I am struggling to see many targets worth getting out of bed for in the popular rumours after Miller though. Chychrun chat seems to have died, and I can't recall how good his defensive game is anyway. Seen Beauvillier's and Konecny's names on one trade board, but I can't imagine their teams trading here. There's always people we don't know about of course. But on top of that, then you've got to narrow it down to the teams who want our assets, which mostly means dmen... it's why we're fixated on Miller, I guess.

Tbh I find myself mainly browsing capfriendly to try and guess the best ELC someone would give for Marino. I don't love the idea but it's the best way of improving the team I can think of.

Yeah and Hextall's specialty is targeting guys no one's talking about.
The ELC route is interesting too. The team would really need to be desperate for a D-man though to get a worthwhile one back.

 

[Peat]

Yeah and Hextall's specialty is targeting guys no one's talking about.
The ELC route is interesting too. The team would really need to be desperate for a D-man though to get a worthwhile one back.

True he's usually picked up off radar guys here so far, but it's also mainly been depth. If people want him to get something significant, that seems less likely.

And yeah, I dunno if another team wants to pay it but a man can hope. It's why I keep looking at Ottawa, who are clearly a bit eager to make a move and do have too many interesting kids to bring through, even if some of them are still a year off.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

True he's usually picked up off radar guys here so far, but it's also mainly been depth. If people want him to get something significant, that seems less likely.

And yeah, I dunno if another team wants to pay it but a man can hope. It's why I keep looking at Ottawa, who are clearly a bit eager to make a move and do have too many interesting kids to bring through, even if some of them are still a year off.

That's a good choice.
Undeniable need on D, and Marino's the right age to fit their timeline. The 5 years is attractive too, especially since the cap will go up.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Heavily drug inspired theory: Ottawa's gonna trade a RW for a blueliner because Matthew Tkachuk is gonna force Calgary's hand in trading him to the Sens to play with Brady. Maybe not this summer, but probably within the calendar year.

-edit- I'll take one Batherson for Marino+ trade, thanks.

 

[HandshakeLine]

One of the frustrating things about being a Pens fan in this day and age is that we're so used to getting fleeced, we can't really imagine fleecing anyone else.

 

[Jacob]

Rutta is not a 2nd pairing guy, I think we can all agree on that, but maybe the plan is to switch Matheson to RD which he supposedly can do, and the Penguins have done with varying success with Hainsey and Daley (and Cole?).

Dumoulin - Letang
Pettersson - Matheson
Ruhwedel/Joseph - Rutta
Friedman

Capfriendly also shows Rutta as LD/RD.

 

[Pens x]

Why are people still on “top6 winger”?

We have Guentzel, Rakell and Rust. We have Zucker in a pinch. We have Z, DOC, Puus and Poulin who will be looking for chances to prove themselves that should not be 4th line/strictly bottom 6.

If none of these guys make a big jump we’re in trouble anyway, and there’s always the deadline to get a supplementary piece.

We’d benefit more by dealing Dumo/Petts/Kapanen for an upgrade to partner Letang and a very good PK’ing 4th liner (tough to play - hopefully fast and physical). IMO.

Because we were a one line team last year. We aren’t going to get much help from our bottom six scoring wise this season as is.

 

[Pens x]

I mean, we so very rarely actually see rumors come to fruition that I find it hard to believe that anyone rumored to come here actually comes here.

But moves have to be made, that's for sure. I personally think that a move for some bottom 6 help plus maybe a prospect or two is most likely given the need to shed cap and retool there, but I don't pretend on having any idea of who that might be.

So, let’s bring back nearly the exact same team except now our bottom six is worse?

One of the frustrating things about being a Pens fan in this day and age is that we're so used to getting fleeced, we can't really imagine fleecing anyone else.

We still live in the past where our next head coach could be as bad as Johnston and at least Hextall isn’t as bad as JR (after the cups). We praise the guy for anything he does as long as he doesn’t sign Jack Johnson.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It's been more than 24 hours since Hextall has done anything.
Dude just can't help but to sleep on the job!

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Because we were a one line team last year. We aren’t going to get much help from our bottom six scoring wise this season as is.

So you know this in July, without knowing who they will all be and who we may still acquire.
Summary judgment on Z and Puust, even though you've seen Puust play 1 game and Z's played very well in the NHL so far.
Blueger's chemistry with an unidentified winger already analyzed.

You also already know what kind of season Kap will have, after 1 great season and 1 bad one.

It's all very impressive.
If you have such foresight can you enlighten us who we're acquiring next and which of our D we're trading? It's a useful ability for the board.
I'd rather not wait for news if you can see the future. Just don't spoil the season please.

 

[Pens x]

It's been more than 24 hours since Hextall has done anything.
Dude just can't help but to sleep on the job!

So, nearly 48 hours into free agency, are you happy with his signings?

So you know this in July, without knowing who they will all be and who we may still acquire.
Summary judgment on Z and Puust, even though you've seen Puust play 1 game and Z's played very well in the NHL so far.
Blueger's chemistry with an unidentified winger already analyzed.

You also already know what kind of season Kap will have, after 1 great season and 1 bad one.

It's all very impressive.
If you have such foresight can you enlighten us who we're acquiring next and which of our D we're trading? It's a useful ability for the board.
I'd rather not wait for news if you can see the future. Just don't spoil the season please.

I was responding to someone that said he would be okay if all sleepy does from here is make a bottom 6 more or two…

Remind me again why Puus only played in one game? That’s right, because or Sleepy and Sully. When these types of players NEVER get fair shot at the lineup, they are complete unknowns. Get ready for Archibald to bury these guys this season. We’ve spent the last two years doing everything in our power to pretend Wilkes Barre doesn’t exist to play absolute turd players.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I was responding to someone that said he would be okay if all sleepy does from here is make a bottom 6 more or two…

That's not even a possibility anymore?
One or two of our D are out. We have 9.

There will be trade(s).