Pens/NYR

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DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Prucha73 said:
I think Malkin is better than Olesz, but not by that much. In any case I really want Tukonen.

I think Ovechkin is better than Malkin, but not that much.

Olesz is sort of a mystery man. I think he could end up being a pretty solid contributor in the future, but as of now, it seems as though Ovechkin and Malkin are the only two with superstar potential.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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mario66 said:
Mat Murley only had 1 goal and 2 points in 18 games and I was very impressed with him (although he is a differant player, the stats don't always tell the whole truth).
But for prucha to say Koltsov isn't physical is just plain wrong. Not only is the guy strong as an ox with a mean streak, he'll take a beating in front of the net. He also has wheels that would put Fata to shame, and Ranger fans should know how fast Fata is. Koltsov could be a 60 point guy, but will most likely put up 40-50 points a year over his career and I would be VERY happy with that. Koltsov is my second favorite player behind only Lemieux and I wouldn't trade him for the world (just an expression ;) ).

Murley was very unimpressive to me in his stint with the Pens.
 

Prucha73

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Anyway I don't know what the hell are we arguing about, we are all happy with where our teams are going and the youth we have.
 

craig1

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in the hall said:
blue shirt bulletin had this trade in their article and they are as legit as it gets, as well as other insiders roaming this board



If they are so credible, why are they saying Jagr to Pittsburgh?????

The Pens would have zero interest in securing Jagr's services again...even at the reported $1 million/year. Jagr burned his bridges in Pittsburgh. His "Dying alive" statements alienated the entire fanbase to the point where the fans wanted him gone while he was still here!!! The media only were interested in the next quote he would make bemoaning his life.


............wow....I still can't beleive someone stated that the Pens would send the #1 overall (before the lottery) to NY for Jagr!!!! :lol
 

BrettNYR

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La-La-Laprise said:
Prucha -- You called Balej Established. How is a 17 game NHL established? He is an established AHLer as of May 30, 2004.

Malkin is being underrated in here by non-pens fans lol

Malkin has 90 pt upside. Balaj would be happy to have half of that.
I agree with that statement.
 
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Mikos87

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Ok Long Long time lurker, and as you can see by my post count that I hardly ever post here. But this thread is just nonsensical. Entertaining, but nonsensical.

First of all Malkin has first line centre written all over him, potentially franchise player. Pens need an elite forward. Yes he might be a little expensive with his contract and the transfer fee from Russia that the pens might not be able to afford. But he is easily the best player available at that point. And if he works out for you (he can defect), you've got a skilled centre with size that can lead your offense. Unlike the Ranger the Pens actually have a decent amount of depth and quality prospects at other positions. Welch, Whitney, Orpick, MAF, Chiodo, Caron, Koltsov. But with Beech appearing like a dud, the Pens need a qulaity skilled centreman. A great plus is that he has size too, something which is needed in the East.

The Rangers have a few good prospects, but many of them are boom or bust types or projects, and questionable ones due to injury (Jessiman, Lampman (5-6D), Balej, Prucha, Murray, Moore, Baranka, Falardeau, Umberger (who might not sign) and Blackburn who has question marks due to injuries). Lundquivst never played in NA, and it'll take him a while to get used to it.

So the only prospect that you can be say with confidence that will be an NHLer is Tyutin. Now the Rangers loaded up on picks. And to trade many young assets to move up four spots in the draft is sheer utter stupidity. But then again with Sather you never know, whats with all these NY Gms trying to surprise their fans by pulling idiotic trades? Remember he traded many many young assets away. Many of whom are solid NHLers (Johnson, Zidlicky) and many good prospects and picks (Novak, '02 first). And selected picks that are far far off from making the NHL and not taking a safer prospect.

For the Pens to trade Malkin away is sheer stupidity, they have depth in their prospects at other positions, and need a big franchise centre especially in the east.
And if this doesn't work out for them, then they can trade him. Think of it this way, would it be smart for Carolina to trade Stall for a bunch of iffy prospects and picks?

The trades you guys are proposing are not reasonable for either team. I take it all the years of losing has made some of you lose your common sense, and made you all bitter, no?
 

BrettNYR

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MrKnowNothing said:
Regarding Olesz/Malkin, I don't agree. They were closely ranked for a while, but it is clear now that Malkin is number 2 behind Ovechkin, and if anything, there's more competition between Ovechkin/Malkin than Malkin/Olesz. I say this because some people have Barker, Tukonen, or even Ladd ahead of Olesz.

Factor in that Malkin is pretty much a year younger than Olesz development wise, and there's no reason to believe right now that Olesz will be a better player in the future.

Malkin has impressed a scout enough to say that he would think about taking him number one, but chicken out. Given Ovechkin's longstanding pedigree as one of the best prospects in a while, and that's a pretty hefty compliment. I haven't seen the same thing said about Olesz ever.

That said, the draft is pretty much a crap shoot. In 15 years, we might look back and say that Olesz was the best player. Maybe Ladd. Maybe Ovechkin. Maybe Malkin. Maybe Tukonen. Maybe Schremp. Etc.

But as of now it's clearly #1 Ovechkin and #2 Malkin.
I don't think that the Malkin to Olesz drop-off is as big as everyone thinks, I think BOTH have 70-90 point potentials, with Olesz getting about 70 points, and Malkin getting about 90 points. But, Olesz's defensive game is alot better than Malkin's. With that said, I would still take Malkin over Olesz anyday.
 

BrettNYR

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Mikos87 said:
Ok Long Long time lurker, and as you can see by my post count that I hardly ever post here. But this thread is just nonsensical. Entertaining, but nonsensical.

First of all Malkin has first line centre written all over him, potentially franchise player. Pens need an elite forward. Yes he might be a little expensive with his contract and the transfer fee from Russia that the pens might not be able to afford. But he is easily the best player available at that point. And if he works out for you (he can defect), you've got a skilled centre with size that can lead your offense. Unlike the Ranger the Pens actually have a decent amount of depth and quality prospects at other positions. Welch, Whitney, Orpick, MAF, Chiodo, Caron, Koltsov. But with Beech appearing like a dud, the Pens need a qulaity skilled centreman. A great plus is that he has size too, something which is needed in the East.

The Rangers have a few good prospects, but many of them are boom or bust types or projects, and questionable ones due to injury (Jessiman, Lampman (5-6D), Balej, Prucha, Murray, Moore, Baranka, Falardeau, Umberger (who might not sign) and Blackburn who has question marks due to injuries). Lundquivst never played in NA, and it'll take him a while to get used to it.

So the only prospect that you can be say with confidence that will be an NHLer is Tyutin. Now the Rangers loaded up on picks. And to trade many young assets to move up four spots in the draft is sheer utter stupidity. But then again with Sather you never know, whats with all these NY Gms trying to surprise their fans by pulling idiotic trades? Remember he traded many many young assets away. Many of whom are solid NHLers (Johnson, Zidlicky) and many good prospects and picks (Novak, '02 first). And selected picks that are far far off from making the NHL and not taking a safer prospect.

For the Pens to trade Malkin away is sheer stupidity, they have depth in their prospects at other positions, and need a big franchise centre especially in the east.
And if this doesn't work out for them, then they can trade him. Think of it this way, would it be smart for Carolina to trade Stall for a bunch of iffy prospects and picks?

The trades you guys are proposing are not reasonable for either team. I take it all the years of losing has made some of you lose your common sense, and made you all bitter, no?
Yes, it has. :cry: :cry: :cry:
 

Jaded-Fan

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These kind of posts always make me laugh . . . Basically they are 'would you (Team A) take (from Team B) 'fill in the blank underpay' for 'either your all star player or the number 1 or number 2 pick in the draft'. And then when the other team's fans say that you are out of your minds, you all turn red with rage defending to the death the player or picks you were thrilled to give away in trade a moment ago. Oh yeah? Well player so-and-so is ten times your player (or player I could get with your draft picks) . . . umm . . . who I was trying a moment ago to trade him for.

Anyone else see the humor in that?
 

BrettNYR

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Jaded-Fan said:
These kind of posts always make me laugh . . . Basically they are 'would you (Team A) take (from Team B) 'fill in the blank underpay' for 'either your all star player or the number 1 or number 2 pick in the draft'. And then when the other team's fans say that you are out of your minds, you all turn red with rage defending to the death the player or picks you were thrilled to give away in trade a moment ago. Oh yeah? Well player so-and-so is ten times your player (or player I could get with your draft picks) . . . umm . . . who I was trying a moment ago to trade him for.

Anyone else see the humor in that?
Yes.
 

NYR469

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craig1 said:
If they are so credible, why are they saying Jagr to Pittsburgh?????

The Pens would have zero interest in securing Jagr's services again...even at the reported $1 million/year. Jagr burned his bridges in Pittsburgh. His "Dying alive" statements alienated the entire fanbase to the point where the fans wanted him gone while he was still here!!! The media only were interested in the next quote he would make bemoaning his life.


............wow....I still can't beleive someone stated that the Pens would send the #1 overall (before the lottery) to NY for Jagr!!!! :lol

just because the fans don't want him back that doesn't mean that mario wouldn't, and in case you forgot mario is the one making the decision, not the fans...i'm not saying that the deal would ever happen, but whether or not the fans would want it to happen has basically zero influence over the deal

and no one ever said that the deal was going to happen, the rumor was that the idea was discussed. you do realize that teams discuss hundreds and thousands of ideas that never happen for one reason or another..
 

Jaded-Fan

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NYR469 said:
just because the fans don't want him back that doesn't mean that mario wouldn't, and in case you forgot mario is the one making the decision, not the fans...i'm not saying that the deal would ever happen, but whether or not the fans would want it to happen has basically zero influence over the deal

and no one ever said that the deal was going to happen, the rumor was that the idea was discussed. you do realize that teams discuss hundreds and thousands of ideas that never happen for one reason or another..


Sounds a whole lot like wishful thinking . . . I am still trying to figure out how the Caps got the Rags to take him with all of his past baggage, and especially his salary and potential cap ramifications. I constantly read here in the NY boards how if we got the rights to AO we could not sign him and would gladly send him to NY for less than the indians got for Manhattan (and similar has been said of Malkin and us at times) . . .and we would take on Jagr's salary? How inconsistent is that. That is one rumor that has no legs at all.
 

Prucha73

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Jaded-Fan said:
Sounds a whole lot like wishful thinking . . . I am still trying to figure out how the Caps got the Rags to take him with all of his past baggage, and especially his salary and potential cap ramifications. I constantly read here in the NY boards how if we got the rights to AO we could not sign him and would gladly send him to NY for less than the indians got for Manhattan (and similar has been said of Malkin and us at times) . . .and we would take on Jagr's salary? How inconsistent is that. That is one rumor that has no legs at all.

Caps are covering huge chunk of his salary and they took that bum Carter off our hands.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Prucha73 said:
Caps are covering huge chunk of his salary and they took that bum Carter off our hands.


I wonder if there is a cap how that will be handled . . . will Jagr continue to count against the Cap's . . . ummm . . . Cap, to a degree anyways?
 

Robert Paulson*

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Prucha73 said:
As far as I can see your AHl team is almost the same as our AHL team and most of those players are not really good enough for NHL.
I'm sure its already been commented on.. but

The average age of your AHL team is 28, where ours is 24. Most of the guys on your team (save Balej, Tyutin, Labarbera, Blackburn) are pretty much career AHL vets, I never heard of most of them / have seen them play for the Rangers.

A lot of players on our AHL team are ready for the NHL.


In the end, we are not trading the chance to get a player like Malkin! Simple as that, unless you are willing to WAY overpay for him.
 

Robert Paulson*

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Jaded-Fan said:
These kind of posts always make me laugh . . . Basically they are 'would you (Team A) take (from Team B) 'fill in the blank underpay' for 'either your all star player or the number 1 or number 2 pick in the draft'. And then when the other team's fans say that you are out of your minds, you all turn red with rage defending to the death the player or picks you were thrilled to give away in trade a moment ago. Oh yeah? Well player so-and-so is ten times your player (or player I could get with your draft picks) . . . umm . . . who I was trying a moment ago to trade him for.

Anyone else see the humor in that?
Yeah.
 

MagnusJondus

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Koltsov has had a nagging quad injury all year.

In a wheel chair he's still faster than Balej.

Lets argue about something worthwhile, please.
 
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Unknownbutfamous

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LetsGoPens63 said:
I'm sure its already been commented on.. but

The average age of your AHL team is 28, where ours is 24. Most of the guys on your team (save Balej, Tyutin, Labarbera, Blackburn) are pretty much career AHL vets, I never heard of most of them / have seen them play for the Rangers.

A lot of players on our AHL team are ready for the NHL.


In the end, we are not trading the chance to get a player like Malkin! Simple as that, unless you are willing to WAY overpay for him.

LaBarbera will be an AHLer. I think he we be traded at draft day.

The Goaltending situation in Hartford will be very interesting, next year. Lundqvist or Blackburn? Pretty good combo if you ask me.
 

craig1

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NYR469 said:
just because the fans don't want him back that doesn't mean that mario wouldn't, and in case you forgot mario is the one making the decision, not the fans...i'm not saying that the deal would ever happen, but whether or not the fans would want it to happen has basically zero influence over the deal

and no one ever said that the deal was going to happen, the rumor was that the idea was discussed. you do realize that teams discuss hundreds and thousands of ideas that never happen for one reason or another..


Again, this shows ignorance to the situation in Pittsburgh. It would be likely that attendance would drop with the acquisition of Jagr. The incredibly bad press, coupled with the fans disdain for his comments and actions would make him an absolute pariah........no one knows this more than Lemieux and CP....the men making the decision.

If you even had an inkling of understanding of the situation here, you would know that the Press here refers to other pro atheletes as having "pulled a Jagr." Keep in mind this is not the massive New York press, this is local press, which the vast majority all read (given that there is considerably fewer local choices).
 

Prucha73

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LetsGoPens63 said:
I'm sure its already been commented on.. but

The average age of your AHL team is 28, where ours is 24. Most of the guys on your team (save Balej, Tyutin, Labarbera, Blackburn) are pretty much career AHL vets, I never heard of most of them / have seen them play for the Rangers.

A lot of players on our AHL team are ready for the NHL.


In the end, we are not trading the chance to get a player like Malkin! Simple as that, unless you are willing to WAY overpay for him.

Genius, how did you come up with average age of 28? there are only 3 or 4 players over 28. Most players in Hartford are in 22 to 26 range. And most of the guys in WBS Penguins will be career AHL players as well. I think you really think too highly of them.
 
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