Post-Game Talk: Pens get outplayed|going to game 7

[ColePens]

1) Here is my big issue about "Oh the management is angry!" comment... Whether the Rangers win this series or not, we blew a 3-1 lead AND looked lethargic doing so. The players constantly talk about having to come out w/ a purpose yet they do not do it. So why do we still believe DB is the guy even if they win? It makes zero ****ing sense. How many times can professionals say "We didn't come out strong and we paid for it." Well no ****! That's like me saying I didn't prepare for a meeting and didn't execute an action plan for work. I'd be ****ing fired if I constantly did it. If you are a college student, it's like not studying for a test, getting an F, and wondering why the execution was poor. It makes no freaking sense.

Like I always say, he could be the best coach and have the best system the NHL has ever seen. If the players do not respond to the system, then it flat out doesn't matter. That's where we stand today. In addition - the problems are constant. They are more the rule as opposed to the exception.

So if management is truly upset - what does Tuesday even matter? Win or lose... what does it matter?


2) In response to dump-ins (TenderRip): If anyone else watches tape you will see what TR is saying and how the dump-in looks... We look to stretch pass and throw a 90 foot pass (which leads to a lot of turnovers). Our two streaking wingers are at a stand still on opposite sides of the blue line and start skating to the puck from a complete stand still. That already puts our wingers at an extreme disadvantage. We are moving from a complete stand still while dmen are in motion pivoting back to the puck. How the **** are we to get dump-ins? It makes zero sense and TR brings up a good point but I just wanted to kind of expand on it a bit.

That's just one facet of the game, but it happens so much and I figured to just talk about how a coach can set up a team to not get dump-ins and look slow as opposed to a roster. People want to blame speed/roster but sometimes a system can equally make it look bad.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I'm not as down on the team as most it seems. I thought overall they played well after the first 5 min. They dominated from that point on in terms of shot attempts. Lundqvist had to play a hell of a game and had some good fortune of his own. It was essentially a 1-1 game with a couple of Fleury's Flakes to tip the scales. If game 7 unfolds the same way the Pens are the team much more likely to win. As for the minuses:

- Fleury. Soft goal + soft rebound control was the difference in the game.
- Bennett. But how hard would it have been to demote him to the 4th line and promote Gibbons, who looked electric on almost every shift.
- Adams. The PK formula is apparently set in stone? Adams on the ice for 55-75 seconds. Goes to bench. Puck (finally) exits defensive zone. 15-20 seconds expire from the game clock. STOP! Adams back on the ice for another 45-65 seconds. Adams' total displacement (subtracting the distance from the defensive zone to the bench) on the PK = 16 feet of ice.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Were we going to win 1-0?????

MAF isnt playing great, but he is playing well enough for us to win... Its just noone else is.

No the pens weren't going to win 1-0, if the pens shooters got a chance to face MAF they would of scored a hand full of goals.

MAF is not playing good enough for any team to win in the playoffs, i can think of 5 or 6 terrible goals he let in this series alone, there were also bad goals he let in against CBJ, you don't win in the playoffs when your goalie averages 1 bad goal per game.

 

[Richard]

Kunitz-Malkin-Neal should be thrown out to let Malkin carry us into the Conference Finals.


Oh, and Fleury is a sieve. Guy is consistently inconsistent. Time for a new start next season.

 

[MeticulouslyDishevel]

They got Jagr though... not like I knew that would be the end result then, however.

It was a rad Walkman to. I couldn't believe how many parts they actually used in those damn things...

One of the bright yellow ones? I went through several because the volume and tuning knobs kept breaking off.

 

[psu711]

MAF is not playing good enough for any team to win in the playoffs, i can think of 5 or 6 terrible goals he let in this series alone, there were also bad goals he let in against CBJ, you don't win in the playoffs when your goalie averages 1 bad goal per game.

He has two shutouts! There is no point in comparing Fleury to Lundquist (or many other goalies for that matter). He is the definition of a franchise goaltender.

Flower let in a soft-ish backhander last night, the other two are our D, or lack of D, being out worked around the net.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

I'll admit that Fleury has let in some weak individual goals, but to say that he is not playing well enough for any team to win in the playoffs is hyperbole (in my opinion, which hopefully at least one other poster agrees with).

 

[cheesedanish87]

He has two shutouts! There is no point in comparing Fleury to Lundquist (or many other goalies for that matter). He is the definition of a franchise goaltender.

Flower let in a soft-ish backhander last night, the other two are our D, or lack of D, being out worked around the net.

Game 1 goal against Pouliot was terrible
Game 4 goal against Zuccarello was terrible
Game 5 goal against Kreider was terrible
Game 5 goal against Mcdonagh was terrible
Game 6 goal against Hagelin was terrible

There are actually other bad goals that i think he gave up that are debatable, i just mentioned the ones that aren't debatable.

As far as MAF shutouts go, game 2 he wasn't tested at all, i give him credit for game 3, but the truth is NYR hit a bunch of posts and MAF had puck luck on his side that game.

 

[MeticulouslyDishevel]

Have to agree that 4pm is an odd time to practice, although the optional part isn't surprising. Wonder if that means they're going to recall someone from W-B/S.

That is an odd time.

At this point in the season though the practices are really only for the players that are sitting in the press box. Most of the regular players don't participate in them.

 

[Florentino Ariza]

He has two shutouts! There is no point in comparing Fleury to Lundquist (or many other goalies for that matter). He is the definition of a franchise goaltender.

Flower let in a soft-ish backhander last night, the other two are our D, or lack of D, being out worked around the net.

That is textbook Fleury, man. He plays stellar and then in other games he allows goals that are totally unacceptable at the NHL level. How can the players feel confident playing in front of a goalie like that? It is no coincidence that the Penguins play complete games when Fleury plays well. He is the same headcase who allows laughable goals and plays like an idiot behind the net, and it's time for him to go (after 4 seasons of playoff gaffes).

 

[dvonfunk]

The Keys to beating the Pens is so simple it's insulting. Take liberties with Crosby, no problem there retribution won't bite you in the arse the Pens are butter soft.

Do you know why every opposing team takes liberties with Crosby? Yes, we are butter soft and have no real protectors for him, but mostly it's because the refs allow it to happen under the guise of "playoff hockey." There are zero consequences for mugging Sid on his way to the net, or a well-placed shot to his previously concussed melon after the play is over. It's pathetic. It's one thing to have an enforcer, but these refs are also supposed to enforce the rules. Only in the sport of hockey, does the league and it's referees tolerate their superstars taking such abuse and punishment.

The playoffs should be the time to showcase these incredible talents to the world, but instead, it's the little pests like Dubinsky and Moore that get glorified for doling out the abuse upon them. It's completely bass ackwards. At least during the regular season, when there is some semblance of consistentcy in the calls that are made, those same pests can't get away with the excessive physicality.

You know it's bad when last year during the ECFs against his beloved Boston Bruins, Don Cherry- a noted Crosby hater since the very beginning- takes pity on the guy for the level of abuse he takes without repercussions (from anyone on the ice).

Of course, Cherry places blame on the inception of the instigator rule, and how it has neutered the traditional role of the enforcer. Why does he choose to take that stance? It's because he knows "playoff hockey" will always be "playoff hockey," where physicality, goonery, and crossing that faint line that usually exists during the regular season is tolerated, and even glorified. Hence, teams like Boston that personify those "playoff hockey" traits are lauded and eventually rewarded for their style of play.

It obviously doesn't help Sid's cause that he's been labeled a whiner since he first entered the league, and I suspect that most refs probably view him as such. Why else would he be the Rodney Dangerfield of the NHL when it comes to drawing penalties? One penalty drawn by him in these entire playoffs?! ONE?! You've got to be freaking kidding me! Can you blame the guy for desperately pleading his case to the refs after almost every shift? Can you blame the guy for being frustrated and losing his cool eventually? I know I can't. I get it.

Now please don't mistake this rant as an attempt to make an excuse for the sorry performance put on by these Pens for the majority of these playoffs. EVERYONE must be held accountable. Accountability. There's a new one. It's on HCDB for his inability and/or unwillingness to adapt his strategies after they've proven ineffective. It's on Ray Shero for his inability to construct a true cup contender given the requirements of playoff hockey. It's on Mario for letting all of this happen before our very eyes. But it's also on these players for loafing it through most of these games and still expecting to win. Last, but certainly not least, it's on Crosby for simply not showing up to play, save for one game. Injury or no injury, you'd never see Jonathan Toews consistently put forth that type of sorry effort game after game. Toews. That's what a real captain looks like right there...

Hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard. Need proof? Look no further than these Pittsburgh Penguins. We somehow managed to get past a badly out-manned Columbus team, that simply lacked the talent and goaltending performance needed to beat us. But make no mistake, they outworked us and wanted it more. Come tomorrow night, I suspect we won't be so lucky.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

Game 1 goal against Pouliot was terrible

Brassard, not Pouliot. That shot was not stoppable.

The rest were probably terrible, I'm not going to torture myself by watching them.
But game one ended on a shot that nobody stops. I don't even think he could have stopped it with his mask.

 

[Richard]

Fleury hasn't been lol sucky to date, though he has had individual games of that ilk during this run but if he ain't shown his walking papers Shero better be shown his.

 

[DeadGator401]

Lot of people angry with the Pens. They deserve it. I am one of them. There is just zero intensity. The just don't seem to care any more.

But the Rangers have also played like mad men. MSL's personal thing has become a rallying point for a team. Lundqvist has been spectacular. You have to give them credit.

 

[Shwag33]

I'll admit that Fleury has let in some weak individual goals, but to say that he is not playing well enough for any team to win in the playoffs is hyperbole (in my opinion, which hopefully at least one other poster agrees with).

It's rare a team goes far in the playoffs when your goalie lets in soft goals. While he's not been totally to blame, not kicking pucks into his own net is the accepted level of playing good for him.

 

[Florentino Ariza]

Do you know why every opposing team takes liberties with Crosby? Yes, we are butter soft and have no real protectors for him, but mostly it's because the refs allow it to happen under the guise of "playoff hockey." There are zero consequences for mugging Sid on his way to the net, or a well-placed shot to his previously concussed melon after the play is over. It's pathetic. It's one thing to have an enforcer, but these refs are also supposed to enforce the rules. Only in the sport of hockey, does the league and it's referees tolerate their superstars taking such abuse and punishment.

The playoffs should be the time to showcase these incredible talents to the world, but instead, it's the little pests like Dubinsky and Moore that get glorified for doling out the abuse upon them. It's completely bass ackwards. At least during the regular season, when there is some semblance of consistentcy in the calls that are made, those same pests can't get away with the excessive physicality.

You're spot-on, but that's the way hockey is unfortunately. And players like Crosby are the first to defend the joke NHL culture, so there is nothing we can do

 

[Richard]

You know who has been even worse: Rob Scuderi. Man that guy is horrible. Three fails to clear for every goal against when he is on the ice. Way to go Ray, way to go.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Don't you think that argument rings a little hollow considering how the lines have been configured since we turned around the CBJ series, Jig?

Crosby isn't playing with Stempniak now. He's playing with Malkin at ES. Regularly. And he still stinks. Meanwhile Sutter and Malkin have managed to play great hockey under this system and this coach (note that I'm for changing the coach if they lose this series regardless).

Crosby's human, but he's also held to the highest standard because people consider him the consensus best player in the world, and he's paid like it. Higher than Kane and higher than Toews, and now he's fizzling for the 3rd playoffs in a row. The expectations come with the status. If the performance continues falling well short of expectation, maybe the status should be called into question.

I'm always going to be a Pens fan. But Crosby can shoulder his share of the blame here too. He needs to start rising to the occasion instead of wilting, because that's what truly great players do.

I'm talking about their entire careers here bro. Their entire careers.

We saw Toews have a complete breakdown last year agt Detroit, and he has way more talent and top end coaching around him than Crosby.

This org has surrounded their two generational talents with poor coaching, atrocious goaltending, and their "best" winger has as much heart as the tin man.

I wish Crosby would play better, but he has been a band-aid for this org for years and because of that the roster and proper coaching was allowed to be sup-par.

So no, I'm not turning on him. I appreciate all he has done for this team and people who want to blast him, cool.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Brassard, not Pouliot. That shot was not stoppable.

The rest were probably terrible, I'm not going to torture myself by watching them.
But game one ended on a shot that nobody stops. I don't even think he could have stopped it with his mask.

It was the first goal of the series scored by Pouliot, it was very stoppable, it was probably the worst goal he gave up this series.

 

[psu711]

Game 1 goal against Pouliot was terrible
Game 4 goal against Zuccarello was terrible
Game 5 goal against Kreider was terrible
Game 5 goal against Mcdonagh was terrible
Game 6 goal against Hagelin was terrible

There are actually other bad goals that i think he gave up that are debatable, i just mentioned the ones that aren't debatable.

As far as MAF shutouts go, game 2 he wasn't tested at all, i give him credit for game 3, but the truth is NYR hit a bunch of posts and MAF had puck luck on his side that game.

Just bc Pierre McGuire says a goal is bad, doesnt mean that it is true.

 

[psu711]

You know who has been even worse: Rob Scuderi. Man that guy is horrible. Three fails to clear for every goal against when he is on the ice. Way to go Ray, way to go.

agree 100%

he is too bad to even hide him with Bort. I thought they played a little better last night, but the game 5 pairing of Borts and Scuds was embarrassing.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Just bc Pierre McGuire says a goal is bad, doesnt mean that it is true.

Please explain, which one of those goals aren't bad goals?

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

It's rare a team goes far in the playoffs when your goalie lets in soft goals. While he's not been totally to blame, not kicking pucks into his own net is the accepted level of playing good for him.

I haven't seen him "kick a puck into his own net", like he did against the islanders.
I thought his worst goals were whiffs, like unscreened shots from the point, or that weak backhander.
He's done that 3/4 times this series, yes. But I think he looks better than Ryan Miller did for the Blues. And that guy justifies even more money.

Check out this Toews goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ_TjRrrQjQ

 

[ColePens]

The Fleury debate is getting old. Let's say that weak ass backhand doesn't go in. It makes the game very unique and different to the one we see. I hate when they say "But were we going to win 1-0!??!" no... but the Rangers would have been holding on for dear life w/ our pressure as opposed to comfortable w/ a two goal lead.

 

[Terrapin]

Do you know why every opposing team takes liberties with Crosby? Yes, we are butter soft and have no real protectors for him, but mostly it's because the refs allow it to happen under the guise of "playoff hockey." There are zero consequences for mugging Sid on his way to the net, or a well-placed shot to his previously concussed melon after the play is over. It's pathetic. It's one thing to have an enforcer, but these refs are also supposed to enforce the rules. Only in the sport of hockey, does the league and it's referees tolerate their superstars taking such abuse and punishment.

The playoffs should be the time to showcase these incredible talents to the world, but instead, it's the little pests like Dubinsky and Moore that get glorified for doling out the abuse upon them. It's completely bass ackwards. At least during the regular season, when there is some semblance of consistentcy in the calls that are made, those same pests can't get away with the excessive physicality.

You know it's bad when last year during the ECFs against his beloved Boston Bruins, Don Cherry- a noted Crosby hater since the very beginning- takes pity on the guy for the level of abuse he takes without repercussions (from anyone on the ice).

Of course, Cherry places blame on the inception of the instigator rule, and how it has neutered the traditional role of the enforcer. Why does he choose to take that stance? It's because he knows "playoff hockey" will always be "playoff hockey," where physicality, goonery, and crossing that faint line that usually exists during the regular season is tolerated, and even glorified. Hence, teams like Boston that personify those "playoff hockey" traits are lauded and eventually rewarded for their style of play.

It obviously doesn't help Sid's cause that he's been labeled a whiner since he first entered the league, and I suspect that most refs probably view him as such. Why else would he be the Rodney Dangerfield of the NHL when it comes to drawing penalties? One penalty drawn by him in these entire playoffs?! ONE?! You've got to be freaking kidding me! Can you blame the guy for desperately pleading his case to the refs after almost every shift? Can you blame the guy for being frustrated and losing his cool eventually? I know I can't. I get it.

Now please don't mistake this rant as an attempt to make an excuse for the sorry performance put on by these Pens for the majority of these playoffs. EVERYONE must be held accountable. Accountability. There's a new one. It's on HCDB for his inability and/or unwillingness to adapt his strategies after they've proven ineffective. It's on Ray Shero for his inability to construct a true cup contender given the requirements of playoff hockey. It's on Mario for letting all of this happen before our very eyes. But it's also on these players for loafing it through most of these games and still expecting to win. Last, but certainly not least, it's on Crosby for simply not showing up to play, save for one game. Injury or no injury, you'd never see Jonathan Toews consistently put forth that type of sorry effort game after game. Toews. That's what a real captain looks like right there...

Hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard. Need proof? Look no further than these Pittsburgh Penguins. We somehow managed to get past a badly out-manned Columbus team, that simply lacked the talent and goaltending performance needed to beat us. But make no mistake, they outworked us and wanted it more. Come tomorrow night, I suspect we won't be so lucky.

Good post. I agree. However, why are the Pens managment so stupid, ignorant, arrogant and/or stubborn to realize this, and start using the same tactics?? Remember earlier in the series when Borts crosschecked St. Louis a tad after the whistle? That is literally the only time in these entire playoffs that I've seen anything resembling nastiness from this group of puffs. Dubinsky mauled Sid last series. No response from us or the refs. Staal and Moore this series. No response again. Where the hell are our physical players and pests to make life miserable for the other team? Oh that's right, Lemiuex wanted rid of them all. We don't play that way here in Pittsburgh. Hope he's happy