Post-Game Talk: Pens get outplayed|going to game 7

[Shady Machine]

I will give Fleury the benefit of the doubt. This has been his best performance in the playoffs in a long time. He hasn't been a huge **** up, but there is no denying that he has let in some soft goals.

Nonetheless, if Pittsburgh is eliminated on Tuesday, Fleury should be sent packing.

Which is the problem. If THIS is his best in a long time, that should tell you something about how good he is

 

[wopper]

I don't think a more defensive system can help Fleury.

No "system" can prevent the types of softies that Fleury lets in and his rebound control.

It's not that Fleury isn't making a high enough percentage of regular game saves or too many rebounds are being batted in from bad defensive support.

The problem is that he lets in 15 ft backhanders with no screen right through his body. The problem is that his rebounds, on even the most basic shot that no defense can prevent all of them, go to dangerous spots on the ice. It's that he has no poise in net. Many of these goals would not happen if he would just stay poised in his net instead of flopping on his back or stomach. No system will help with that... At least I don't think so.

Softies KILL morale of the team. Anyone who plays sports knows that it hurts more than a goal earned by the other team.

 

[JimsDoors]

If Gibbons keeps getting breakaway chances, I'm not going to get excited anymore. He's had at least 4 of em' in these playoffs and hasn't scored yet.

 

[Fordy]

If Gibbons keeps getting breakaway chances, I'm not going to get excited anymore. He's had at least 4 of em' in these playoffs and hasn't scored yet.

uh he scored on his first one and another ended in an assist

 

[MrBurghundy]

If Gibbons keeps getting breakaway chances, I'm not going to get excited anymore. He's had at least 4 of em' in these playoffs and hasn't scored yet.

At least he's getting them. More than can be said about the "stars" of this team.

 

[madinsomniac]

Really? He has given up at least 1 weak goal and a questionable 1 in each of the last 2 losses. How is that not a top 5 issue?

The last two games he has made a dozen ridiculaous stops on what really ought to have been goals, and frankly he has done that all series long. HL gave up a freaky fluky goal last night.... other than that the team limited most of the shots to unobstructed outside shots and didnt give up all the cross ice passes through the front of the net...

We hang the guy out to dry then ***** about him because we are too dumb as a fanbase to realize that every goal isnt the goalies fault and that every goalie gives up dumb goals, especially under a constant barrage of great chances... when some scrub comes in like Vokoun or Zats we start playing responsibly for a while and they look good, then we have an off game in front of them and they look just as terrible.
Is Fluery an all star... nope, but he isnt the reason we are going to lose nor even close to it
In order our issues are
----COACHING
----INABILITY TO SCORE IN THE PLAYOFFS, Which leads to forcing the bad play that causes the turnovers that have been epidemic lately
--Inability to clear the zone, Particularly SCUDERI and/or ORPIK's Inability to handle the puck effectivly
--Turnovers and Giveaways of the worse proportion especially in the offensive zone leading to breakaways and odd man breaks
--Inability to keep the front of the net clear and to stop passes deep in the offensive zone...


There is also the putrid PP, and the worn out players getting no rest... and the very minor we have no heart and dont defend ourselves

If you think goaltending in this series is a bigger problem than all of that, well frankly i dont know what to say... not one goaltender is going to excell under those conditions... Im not the biggest fluery backer, but i am going to enjoy when he gets out of Pittsburgh and stars elsewhere while some big name goaltender fails here if they dont fix the coaching

 

[JimsDoors]

uh he scored on his first one and another ended in an assist

After looking it up, you're correct. I didn't think either of his goals in Game 1 against CBJ were from a breakaway.

I don't expect players to capitalize every time, but this time of the year there's little room for error in those situations.

Yes he did get an assist, but you can't rely on a trailer being there to put back the rebound (if there is one)

 

[DoktorZaius]

It's that he has no poise in net. Many of these goals would not happen if he would just stay poised in his net instead of flopping on his back or stomach. No system will help with that... At least I don't think so.

Yeah, this is what pisses me off the most. The 2nd goal last night was a HUGE softie, but every goalie lets in one of those every so often.

But his willingness, eagerness even, to flop around the crease is not only stupid and silly, but it's something I haven't seen out of any other NHL tender. He's got 1st overall pick athleticism, and he knows it, but that doesn't mean you should flaunt it in STUPID ways that are likely to end up in a goal against. Whenever he gets scrambly and flops over, you can see that the other team is in ultra-shark mode -- they know any shot they can get on net, even if it's just a simple one along the ice, has a high likelihood of finding twine.

If it weren't such a multi-year franchise-deflating tragedy, it would be hilarious -- Fleury tends goal like a video game goalie that's being played by a 10 year old -- just mashing buttons to make the goalie perform different techniques, even if it makes no sense.

 

[DoktorZaius]

If Gibbons keeps getting breakaway chances, I'm not going to get excited anymore. He's had at least 4 of em' in these playoffs and hasn't scored yet.

Yeah but he's replacing Tanner Glass, so that's addition by subtraction right off the bat there.

 

[JimsDoors]

Yeah you're right, Dok. Point well taken.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

But his willingness, eagerness even, to flop around the crease is not only stupid and silly, but it's something I haven't seen out of any other NHL tender. He's got 1st overall pick athleticism, and he knows it, but that doesn't mean you should flaunt it in STUPID ways that are likely to end up in a goal against. Whenever he gets scrambly and flops over, you can see that the other team is in ultra-shark mode -- they know any shot they can get on net, even if it's just a simple one along the ice, has a high likelihood of finding twine.

But why can't he just fix this? I don't understand.
Meloche left, Bales came in. He still plays kind of the same way, but a little more subdues, like he's on valium.

Maybe he needs to take Zoloft.

 

[billybudd]

If Bylsma gets fired, and Jacques Martin replaces him as the head coach, then I am becoming a Sabres fan.

This struck me as really funny for some reason.

 

[Fire Shero*]

All the rags were at practice today. The pens not so much.

 

[helicecopter]

I'll answer here even if these quotes are taken off PGT #4.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=84816195&postcount=412

Why couldn't Geno get into (or keep) that mode by centering Neal and Jokinen? In 2009 he was centering his own line (thank god)


I don't get why.
You probably explained why that is the case in your opinion in past threads i missed so feel free to just link to previous posts of yours to save time.

In my opinion, more often then not, playing Malkin as a winger is a waste of talent and potential (that obviously doesn't mean he can't play great some games alongside Crosby and win them for you).

I think moving forward, playing Geno with Sid especially on the road against energized teams that play solid defense would actually reduce chances to win.
(for example matched by Julien with Bergeron and Chara).

I'll make it really simple:

With a line of Kunitz-Sid-#notgeno, Sid has nobody who will create a little space for him or exploit the space he creates.

With a line of JMN, nobody can get Geno the puck or help him keep it.

This is on Ray Shero, but the fact is that Sid and Geno together solve the problems that Shero has created for Sid and Bylsma creates for Geno (by not playing him with someone like Beau or Stemps in place of JJ or even Neal).

So Sid had nobody to create a little space for him when he was dominating the scoring race just because he had no Malkin with him?
Fact is, Sid needs to step up.

If you give him Malkin, you help him but the team's offense is reduced to one line and especially on the road that will hurt the team more often than not.
If Sid doesn't step up without Geno I think the team doesn't win anyway.
And by what you say about Malkin, you should advocate for replacing JJ with Stempniak, not for moving your (currently, so that no one feels offended) best player out of position.

Personally I don't get why they have not even tried to go back to Kunitz-Malkin-Neal, a line that has dominated in the past, to use Crosby against 2nd D pairings instead. It drives me nuts tbh.

And btw, leaving the best finisher on the team (Neal) without Malkin and Crosby makes zero senso to me.
I thought this already when the Pens were leading 3-1, guess now..

 

[Rocket of Russia]

All the rags were at practice today. The pens not so much.

Not that I'm convinced a playoff practice will teach these guys anything capable of correcting now, but that is pretty funny. So much for the Rangers being completely worn down. Pierre will have to make up his mind about which excuse or praise to give McDonagh.

 

[Koempel]

Win Tuesday, lose in 5 to Boston, nothing changes and Shero talks about the progress in not getting swept by Boston again?

I don't want a stroke

 

[Zbynek]

Are people seriously complaining about Gibbons right now? Why are we diverting the blame away from our superstars, who turn into children when they get outplayed? Yes, Bylsma is a moron but that doesn't excuse Crosby, Letang, Neal and Kunitz' composure yesterday.

Why do I even stay up until 4AM for this ****.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

1) Here is my big issue about "Oh the management is angry!" comment... Whether the Rangers win this series or not, we blew a 3-1 lead AND looked lethargic doing so. The players constantly talk about having to come out w/ a purpose yet they do not do it. So why do we still believe DB is the guy even if they win? It makes zero ****ing sense. How many times can professionals say "We didn't come out strong and we paid for it." Well no ****! That's like me saying I didn't prepare for a meeting and didn't execute an action plan for work. I'd be ****ing fired if I constantly did it. If you are a college student, it's like not studying for a test, getting an F, and wondering why the execution was poor. It makes no freaking sense.

Like I always say, he could be the best coach and have the best system the NHL has ever seen. If the players do not respond to the system, then it flat out doesn't matter. That's where we stand today. In addition - the problems are constant. They are more the rule as opposed to the exception.

So if management is truly upset - what does Tuesday even matter? Win or lose... what does it matter?

Cole, I mentioned this before, and this is what bothers me about all this talk about "if the Pens lose on Tuesday, there will be hell to pay" in the media. Why would changes be made ONLY if there is a loss? This team needs changes regardless of whether they win or lose on Tuesday. So why is the focus on big changes occurring only if they lose?

To me, that's actually a scary thought if ownership feels that way. Because it's ignoring the big picture and essentially, the Pens' future is reduced to an oversimplified "Pens win = good team with no changes, Pens loss = bad team that needs to change".

It's actually why I'm, quite frankly, worried if they DO win. Because all this bad press, all this angst, will be swept under the rug and the status quo will be kept, even if we get swept by the Bruins next round. All because they didn't lose on Tuesday.

 

[Zbynek]

Cole, I mentioned this before, and this is what bothers me about all this talk about "if the Pens lose on Tuesday, there will be hell to pay" in the media. Why would changes be made ONLY if there is a loss? This team needs changes regardless of whether they win or lose on Tuesday. So why is the focus on big changes occurring only if they lose?

To me, that's actually a scary thought if ownership feels that way. Because it's ignoring the big picture and essentially, the Pens' future is reduced to an oversimplified "Pens win = good team with no changes, Pens loss = bad team that needs to change".

It's actually why I'm, quite frankly, worried if they DO win. Because all this bad press, all this angst, will be swept under the rug and the status quo will be kept, even if we get swept by the Bruins next round. All because they didn't lose on Tuesday.

Even if we make it to the Conference Finals and lose there, I still think most Pens fans will be calling for Bylsma's head, goalie change-up, Scuderi buy-out, etc... the media seems even more impatient with this team than they did last year, and rightfully so

 

[JimsDoors]

Are people seriously complaining about Gibbons right now? Why are we diverting the blame away from our superstars, who turn into children when they get outplayed? Yes, Bylsma is a moron but that doesn't excuse Crosby, Letang, Neal and Kunitz' composure yesterday.

Why do I even stay up until 4AM for this ****.

I never once said no one else was to blame. It's quite clear that neither of the superstars are playing well (more Sid than Geno)

It's just frustrating as hell, when you're behind on the scoreboard, only to have Gibbons (2x) and Goc miss on breakaway opportunities last night.

Very deflating as a fan.

 

[ColePens]

Cole, I mentioned this before, and this is what bothers me about all this talk about "if the Pens lose on Tuesday, there will be hell to pay" in the media. Why would changes be made ONLY if there is a loss? This team needs changes regardless of whether they win or lose on Tuesday. So why is the focus on big changes occurring only if they lose?

To me, that's actually a scary thought if ownership feels that way. Because it's ignoring the big picture and essentially, the Pens' future is reduced to an oversimplified "Pens win = good team with no changes, Pens loss = bad team that needs to change".

It's actually why I'm, quite frankly, worried if they DO win. Because all this bad press, all this angst, will be swept under the rug and the status quo will be kept, even if we get swept by the Bruins next round. All because they didn't lose on Tuesday.

Absolutely 100% agree. You know - it reminds me of a few moments in our team's history where we lost and I was like "Meh.. that's okay. I understand." Here are a few examples:

1) Losing in 5 (right?) to Ottawa the first time we entered the playoffs. The team was inexperienced and tried to elevate their game, but it just wasn't at the playoff level

2) Losing to Detroit in 08. We were up and coming and fought hard. I respected the season because I thought the team Detroit had was much better.


Those were understandable. We fought hard. We battled and tried. It was a good effort. Everything since DB has taken over is just ****ing frustrating. Just having the consistent resume of putting themselves in this situation should be enough. Hell if you think it's the roster - HE DID IT AT THE OLYMPICS TOO! This isn't some ****ing secret. The players at the Olympics were baffled by idiotic Bylsma.

And don't think it doesn't affect players dodging Pittsburgh and going elsewhere in FA.

 

[InjuredChoker]

jeff o'neill said on TSN radio that byslma looked at granato and asked him if he should take the timeout after the 0-2 goal.

 

[MtlPenFan]

jeff o'neill said on TSN radio that byslma looked at granato and asked him if he should take the timeout after the 0-2 goal.

I'm not a big fan of the TIMEOUT. I think it's as overrated as a fight supposedly turning momentum in a game.

All he had to do was wait one more whistle and they would have gotten a TV timeout.

 

[Shady Machine]

The last two games he has made a dozen ridiculaous stops on what really ought to have been goals, and frankly he has done that all series long. HL gave up a freaky fluky goal last night.... other than that the team limited most of the shots to unobstructed outside shots and didnt give up all the cross ice passes through the front of the net...

We hang the guy out to dry then ***** about him because we are too dumb as a fanbase to realize that every goal isnt the goalies fault and that every goalie gives up dumb goals, especially under a constant barrage of great chances... when some scrub comes in like Vokoun or Zats we start playing responsibly for a while and they look good, then we have an off game in front of them and they look just as terrible.
Is Fluery an all star... nope, but he isnt the reason we are going to lose nor even close to it
In order our issues are
----COACHING
----INABILITY TO SCORE IN THE PLAYOFFS, Which leads to forcing the bad play that causes the turnovers that have been epidemic lately
--Inability to clear the zone, Particularly SCUDERI and/or ORPIK's Inability to handle the puck effectivly
--Turnovers and Giveaways of the worse proportion especially in the offensive zone leading to breakaways and odd man breaks
--Inability to keep the front of the net clear and to stop passes deep in the offensive zone...


There is also the putrid PP, and the worn out players getting no rest... and the very minor we have no heart and dont defend ourselves

If you think goaltending in this series is a bigger problem than all of that, well frankly i dont know what to say... not one goaltender is going to excell under those conditions... Im not the biggest fluery backer, but i am going to enjoy when he gets out of Pittsburgh and stars elsewhere while some big name goaltender fails here if they dont fix the coaching

Okay you have a totally different opinion of Fleury than I do. Your opinion is pretty extreme so I'm not going to discuss Fleury with you anymore. Even Fleury3434 can admit he sucked the last 2 games.

Also, calling Vokoun a scrub is a HUGE joke and shows how misinformed you are. He has been a very good goalie on brutal hockey teams for most of his career, with better career stats. It's no coincidence that he significantly outperformed Fleury in the regular season and playoffs last year. Fleury just isn't very good. Ultra talented for sure. But not a consistently good goalie. His stats and eye test back that up.

 

[Shady Machine]

After looking it up, you're correct. I didn't think either of his goals in Game 1 against CBJ were from a breakaway.

I don't expect players to capitalize every time, but this time of the year there's little room for error in those situations.

Yes he did get an assist, but you can't rely on a trailer being there to put back the rebound (if there is one)

At least he's busting his ass and generating chances. That's more than I can say for most.