Post-Game Talk: Pens/Caps Post Game Talk

[Ogrezilla]

It's never the right changes.

yeah JR and Sully have never responded well to the team struggling. Not ever. Just coasted to the wins in 16 and 17. First sign of struggles in 18 and they fall apart.

 

[Peat]

I like this comparison for Prow and I think Prow will likely be the guy replacing Ruhwedel on the depth chart for next year. I don't think Prow is an OFD or a PP specialist, but Ruhwedel is a good comparable to him from what I understand.

He is in the AHL - top 10 in scoring and PPAs for dmen. I don't know how well that'd translate, but its enough to make me hopeful you could at least get something from him in the big show in that way.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He is in the AHL - top 10 in scoring and PPAs for dmen. I don't know how well that'd translate, but its enough to make me hopeful you could at least get something from him in the big show in that way.

But that's also just this year, when he has had more modest production in his 2 other WBS seasons. From what I understand about him as a player, I don't think he's an OFD or a PP specialist. I think he's very comparable to Ruhwedel, he's just on top pair PP duty because he's their best option. It's the same type of deal when Ruhwedel had 16 points in 28 games with WBS in 2016-2017, before he established himself in the NHL for good.

 

[Peat]

But that's also just this year, when he has had more modest production in his 2 other WBS seasons. From what I understand about him as a player, I don't think he's an OFD or a PP specialist. I think he's very comparable to Ruhwedel, he's just on top pair PP duty because he's their best option. It's the same type of deal when Ruhwedel had 16 points in 28 games with WBS in 2016-2017, before he established himself in the NHL for good.

But they've got Elliot there this season, who to my understanding is a good PP guy at that level, so I don't think he's just best of a bad bunch. 7 PP assists for Prow last season too - 2nd on the team behind Czuczman.

I dunno. I could be wrong. Ruh got 8 PP assists in his call up season. But I thought that Prow came to us with a reputation as a PP/offensive guy and that its just taken time to blossom.

yeah JR and Sully have never responded well to the team struggling. Not ever. Just coasted to the wins in 16 and 17. First sign of struggles in 18 and they fall apart.

I'd go further and say their ability to respond to crisis is their best traits displayed here so far - particularly Rutherford. I wouldn't be surprised if a close analysis of his summer trades/free agents resulted in a 50-50 success rate - its his ability to adjust in season that's been near flawless to date.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

ZAR looked much better. I was a bit a impressed with him and Wilson. That said, you have to hope Wilson puts his chance in the back of the net.

Knee jerk reaction: Put ZAR back on L1 with Sid at LW. It looked viable last year for a bit...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I originally was going to say that WBS now is just as well stocked as WBS in 2015 was, but I'm honestly not sure I'd say that after looking back at the 2015 WBS team. Just looking at the guys who Sullivan had while he was the coach of WBS, the 2015 team had 12 young players who would end up NHL regulars in some capacity. Those guys were Rust, Kuhnhackl, Sheary, Simon, Murray, Wilson, Pouliot, Archibald, Rowney, Jarry, Dea and Sundqvist. Not all of those guys had significant NHL impacts with the Penguins, but they're all NHLers right now on some team. Including ZAR, WBS today only has ZAR, Blueger, Angello, Lafferty, Miletic, Johnson, Olund, Jarry and maybe DiPauli as young guys who may end up as NHLers. I wouldn't even count Prow in this one just because he's turning 26 in a week.

I think it's less of a problem about not having young guys in WBS, and more of a problem with the team being married to players they shouldn't have been married to.



I don't know if the quality is any worse or better, but I think you could argue that the 2015 team had more quantity than the team now.

We are using hindsight for the 2015 team, so that makes it easier to assess.

I’m trying to go off how I felt back then and I only had big hopes for Murray and thought Rust was an NHLer.

The rest I didn’t have big hopes for. Was kind of a sad lot without hindsight.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Is it obvious that Rust is now Sully's pet? He's not going to get traded

 

[vodeni]

ZAR looked much better. I was a bit a impressed with him and Wilson. That said, you have to hope Wilson puts his chance in the back of the net.

Knee jerk reaction: Put ZAR back on L1 with Sid at LW. It looked viable last year for a bit...

knee jerk reaction indeed...ZAR with Sid, Simon with Sid, Rust with Sid, and you wonder why the guy mails it in from time to time...

 

[vodeni]

We are using hindsight for the 2015 team, so that makes it easier to assess.

I’m trying to go off how I felt back then and I only had big hopes for Murray and thought Rust was an NHLer.

The rest I didn’t have big hopes for. Was kind of a sad lot without hindsight.

I thought last year we had a guy at a top of AHL in goals and points....

 

[AverageJoeFan]

knee jerk reaction indeed...ZAR with Sid, Simon with Sid, Rust with Sid, and you wonder why the guy mails it in from time to time...

Hey, I did preface it. lol

Believe me, I am well aware of the Sid the Kid ride at PPG Paints Arena...How about it has no height requirement. LOL had too...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Prow is pretty slick. Not exactly a Ruh, vanilla type guy. He has good vision and can handle the puck. Good skater, like Ruh though.

His size and ability to handle NHL fwds is probably the biggest question mark.

I thought last year we had a guy at a top of AHL in goals and points....

Ya, I can’t think of a situation I can recall where a kid jumped out of juniors to the A and dropped 30 goals, then by a dozen games the next season he was on the block.

I mean, I already know why and tried to give the board a heads up since last year about the situation, but I tried to be optimistic about it all the same.

It is what it is. Smuckers jam knows. Ian Cole knows.

 

[Shady Machine]

On my phone so someone else will have to find the quote (I know it is on Twitter):

Apparently Oshie said he thinks Malkin was bracing for a hit and threw a reverse shoulder in response. Oshie said he did the same thing earlier in the game. Oshie then said he wasn't trying to throw a hit in that spot since he was on the PK.

So FWIW Oshie seems to think the outcome was accidental rather than intentional.

Good on Oshie. Sometimes I don't like him, but it's mostly because of the jersey he wears. That was just a weird play. Honestly, I am actually happy Geno was ejected, because it should make DOPS job easier since it was treated as a serious matter by the refs (ie, he already got his punishment).

 

[Shady Machine]

Patrick Sharp on NBCSN thinks Malkin's hit on Oshie was scary....are you ****ing serious?

Lol you become a commentator and all of a sudden forget how the game is played. What a turd.

 

[NMK11]

Good on Oshie. Sometimes I don't like him, but it's mostly because of the jersey he wears. That was just a weird play. Honestly, I am actually happy Geno was ejected, because it should make DOPS job easier since it was treated as a serious matter by the refs (ie, he already got his punishment).

Sometimes I don't like Oshie, but it's mostly because of his defense of Wilson running around injuring people.

 

[Shady Machine]

How can Malkin do such rookie acts? He is what 32 already? And been in the league for almost 15 years? And he still does things like that in a moment like that?! When is the time for him to grow up and mature?

That’s why I say that he is an idiot and a detriment to the team no matter how many points he scored in easy games against the soft teams. He is a giant baby that can do some good things purely on raw talent and instinct, but has air instead of brain in his head. What an idiot.

This is absurd. Detriment to the team? Lol give me a break.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sometimes I don't like Oshie, but it's mostly because of his defense of Wilson running around injuring people.

You're right. Forgot about those comments.

 

[iamjs]

Not that I want Sullivan fired, but why it is "wasting everybody's time" by suggesting Quenneville?

Unless I'm understanding coaching contracts wrong (and when I posted, I couldn't find anything that made it any more clear), Quenneville is still paid his money by the Hawks and will continue to pay him until his contract runs out. He was making $6m a year for this year and for 2019-20. But if he were to take another role elsewhere, Chicago would no longer pay him.

I know there was a similar issue with Bylsma when he was here, where it was more beneficial for him financially to not coach than it was to take another position, hence him taking roles outside of the NHL and on the NHLn as an analyst.

Take the Penguins; they were paying Bylsma about $2 million to bide his time, hang out with his kids and do TV work

Penguins wisely work flawed system, get pick for Dan Bylsma

Was Dan Bylsma under contract? Yes. Was he receiving compensation from the Penguins? Yes. Was he then an asset of theirs, and not some down-on-his-luck charity case for whom they should work diligently to find a new position in the NHL, with a rival team? Most certainly.
Whether he’s coaching or not, he’s still getting paid. He’s still under contract. He’s as much as asset as any player in the system, should his team choose to view him that way.
he’s the Penguins’ property through 2016, whether he’s coaching or not."GM Ray Shero gave him a two-year extension through 2016 on his existing contract in 2013, after the Penguins were swept by the Bruins. It was a public vote of confidence in a maligned coach, and proper compensation for him. But like any contract, it comes with the understanding that he’s the Penguins’ property through 2016, whether he’s coaching or not.

Stop whining about compensation for fired NHL coaches, general managers

I believe there was a similar situation with Therrien when he was here, where he was fired in early 2009 and didn't really return to hockey until the 2010-11 season.

So in the end you'd be looking at not only paying Sully to go away (similar to what happened to Dan in 2014), you would probably also have to compensate the Hawks. When the Sabres wanted Bylsma, they ended up comp'ing the Pens with a 3rd rounder. I'm guessing Chicago's asking price would be higher than a 3rd. So now you'd be looking at compensating Sullivan to go away, paying Q to coach, and then also compensating the Hawks for Q's rights. There's no official number on what Sullivan's contract is at the moment. It is believed to be anywhere between 1.5m and 5m, so let's go down the middle and assume it's around 3.5m. I doubt Q will resurface anytime before 2020 because of what's Chicago is paying him. It would have to take a number greater than the $6m. So let's say the magic number to get him to come to Pittsburgh is now $7m. Combine that with the money you're paying Sullivan to go away and you're paying what is essentially north of $10m for Q's services.

TL&DR: too much money involved, too many moving parts.

Of course, this all goes into the dumpster if Quenneville did not have this writing in his contract. As a multiple-Cup winning coach, I'd be surprised if that were the case. But you'd still be paying Sullivan to go away and pissing away a high draft pick.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sometimes I don't like Oshie, but it's mostly because of his defense of Wilson running around injuring people.

What do you expect him to say?

Oshie is a heart and soul player and basically their Hornqvist.

 

[Andy99]

Narrow view man. The point is that there's long-term positives to take out of this game that outweigh this result.

1. DeSmith is starting to steal the crease and he's repairing our goaltending issues. We have a safety net for the playoffs at the most important position. That's a big relief considering Murray's injury history and how he's played for over a year now.

2. Kessel was played with Crosby. ****ing hallelujah.

3. The Malkin line was working. Just like last year.

4. We replaced a defensive liability in Sprong with a motivated ZAR who looks like ready to contribute and play a good 200 foot game. Wilson was an upgrade on Grant too.

5. We can handle Washington in a series. You can see it from these 2 games. High danger chances are like 3:1 Pens at least. We deal well with these slower teams. There's no way they'd eliminate us like this. They'd be lucky to reach game 6. This is the best we've looked against Washington in many years IMO. They're declining after this coaching change.

I wouldn't get too caught up in bad puck luck/finishing and a hot goalie. It happens. We'll get a win streak going eventually, even if it doesn't feel like that right now.

The puck luck/finishing however has been going on much longer than just this game...on our one goal someone made an east-west play that got Holtby moving...we haven’t had enough of that—fake out the goalie, great stick handling, holding on to pucks with deception etc...just not enough creative skill...we have grinders and players with no hands unable to make a play in the crease and a lot of just firing right at the goalie...that’s what happens when you’re so focused on the details of just possession and getting O zone pressure...hopefully less thinking soon will result in less gripping of the sticks and more confidence...but teams have gone a whole season with bad shooting luck (see the LA kings)

I still think we need more skill in the top 6....Simon, Rust, Hags aren’t it...

 

[SouthGeorge]

Holtby and Oshie flopping around stole the game. I don't care what anybody says but there is nothing special about Simons game. Dude is worthless.

 

[Andy99]

I love RW’s rants—he goes off on another one today, tearing into Rutherford for his comments—the poster who said JR shouldn’t complain because he made the bed would love this one....

He’s not wrong...

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - Glass houses, Jim

 

[Angrrus]

This is absurd. Detriment to the team? Lol give me a break.

Oh yeah his breakdown last night definitely helped Pens beat their #1 rival. As well as the ton of goals he scored last night. Af for sure it was the first time ever we saw him pull off something stupid like that.

 

[KIRK]

No supplemental discipline.

 

[KIRK]

 

[Icarium]

I think I am hearing the Caps fans' cries of conspiracy from the other side of the Atlantic.