Salary Cap: Pens Add Streit & Corrado; Subtract Fehr & 4th Rounders

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I appreciate that Pouliot is not on that list.

But honestly, with guys like Letang (29), Dumo (24), Maatta (21) and Schultz (25)--assuming he's re-signed--it's not like there's a pressing need for a youth movement on the blueline. I'd rather fill out the blueline with proven NHLers than to square peg Pouliot in on the bottom pairing just because we feel pressured to based on draft pedigree.

 

[Rufus]

Ok, but it begs to ask the question why haven't they traded him? So very dumb that they didn't trade him last offseason and now his value is plummeting.

Because his value was highest when he was rumored to be in a deal for Ryan Kesler at the deadline a few years ago and has gone down since. You wanna just get rid of him for a low pick or a random prospect? He's not going to get you anything more than another prospect of his quality (a guy that hasn't put it all together and is getting up there in age. Virtanen, for example). I'd rather let this year play out for him, give him one last chance next year, then trade him if need be.

 

[Corvidae]

For all those in a hurry to shoot DP into the sun, I've taken the time to create a list of the Pens blueline prospects that have a realistic shot at the NHL. I've listed the players in alphabetical order, and the board can rate their potential as they see fit.

The "Big List of Pens Blueline Prospects":

....

?

I hope everyone appreciates the time it took me to compile this extensive list.

The fact that you ranked ... ahead of ? shows that you know nothing about corsi and 5v5 shot something analytics.

 

[Riptide]

If you end up signing Schultz, he's not playing here again next year basically.

Not sure you can say that. Or how even you've come to this conclusion. Pouliot is a RFA who will cost nothing to keep. He'll get a 1-2 year 1 way contract and we'll see how it ends up. But unless there's a trade on the table that makes us better, it doesn't make much sense to trade him or to move him just because.

The writing was on the wall with Pouliot when we made a trade for Schultz. Management either thought Pouliot was nowhere near where he needed to be developmentally or were essentially throwing in the towel on the guy for the most part. Schultz fits the exact role Pouliot was supposed to, and is doing an immeasurably better job of it. There's simply nowhere for Pouliot to play even if he hadn't stagnated or regressed.

Again, having one doesn't mean we can't have the other. Last I looked, there's usually 3 D pairings. Absolutely nothing wrong with putting Pouliot on the 3rd pairing - if he's ready.

Was a bad pick when it happened, and I don't think he's ever going to pan out here. Call it a bust, trade him--as a change of scenery/expectations and a blueline where he's not like tenth in line will probably help--and move on.

I don't dispute any of that. But that doesn't really mean we need to give him away. If there's a deal that helps us, by all means. Otherwise I'm more than content to just give him time and see how it plays out - even if that means he continues as is and gets claimed on waivers at some point. Because while I think we can all agree that his future as a top 4D looks pretty grim, for the most part, so does our blueline prospect pool. If we had a few more D prospects who are equal or better then him, I'd trade his ass out of here today. But we don't, so hanging onto him and hoping for the best isn't the end of the world. Was it a ****** pick with FF or Trouba on the board? Absolutely. But we can't do anything about that today.

 

[Rufus]

I look at DP and all I can think of is Scotty Hartnell beating him in a foot race

 

[Doogle]

Prow and Bengston I guess are prospects? Corrado? Grasping for straws at this point.

Edit: After doing some follow up research, it sounds like Prow will probably never touch the NHL.
And I wouldn't have too much faith in Bengston ever being able to play consistently with lyme. I personally was diagnosed with lyme a year ago and it's been an ongoing battle. I play inline hockey for an hour a couple of times a week and even that kills me. I don't think he'll be able to put up with the daily routine and just as importantly, the travel, which can easily cause just as much if not more fatigue. If he can overcome it, great, but based on my own experiences I wouldn't have too much hope.

 

[MtlPenFan]

His passing and lateral movement on the blueline both looked exceptional when he first got called up. Trouble is ever since then even those attributes seem gone. Maybe he fit in better with the slower skating style the Bylsma/Johnston Pens played. I don't know.

I think you can make up for being a subpar skater speedwise. I said it before but Pouliot's comparable should be a guy like Andrei Markov. He should study film of him. They're like the same size, and both are known for their puckmoving abilities but lack strong skating otherwise.

It's not impossible for Pouliot to put it together but it's not looking good. I think a fresh start in an org with terrible depth would probably be good for him at this point.

Markov was exceptional from the very start. His brains make up for losing a half a step after so many knee injuries.

Sorry, I just don't see that sort of thinking man's game from Pouliot that offsets his physical limitations.

 

[Riptide]

Prow and Bengston I guess are prospects? Corrado? Grasping for straws at this point.

Corrado is probably around the same level as Pouliot. Prow and Bengston might be a step above that, but we'll likely need another year or so to really find out. Honestly, I'm glad we have all 4, but I'm not really going to plan on any of them making it anytime soon.

 

[Corvidae]

I look at DP and all I can think of is Scotty Hartnell beating him in a foot race

Yeah I'll never let this one go.

Corrado is probably around the same level as Pouliot. Prow and Bengston might be a step above that, but we'll likely need another year or so to really find out. Honestly, I'm glad we have all 4, but I'm not really going to plan on any of them making it anytime soon.

Ouch. Value is a 4th rounder and some junk, which probably amounts to less that a 4th rounder on his own.

 

[Shady Machine]

I appreciate that Pouliot is not on that list.

But honestly, with guys like Letang (29), Dumo (24), Maatta (21) and Schultz (25)--assuming he's re-signed--it's not like there's a pressing need for a youth movement on the blueline. I'd rather fill out the blueline with proven NHLers than to square peg Pouliot in on the bottom pairing just because we feel pressured to based on draft pedigree.

There is always need to have a pipeline of young talented players at each position. It gives you depth, roster and cap flexibility, which are critical for cap strapped teams like the Pens.

Anyway, I have my doubts about Pouliot panning out here, but unless there's a good deal to be had on the trade market, there is no reason to dump him.

 

[Mattpilf]

For all those in a hurry to shoot DP into the sun, I've taken the time to create a list of the Pens blueline prospects that have a realistic shot at the NHL. I've listed the players in alphabetical order, and the board can rate their potential as they see fit.

The "Big List of Pens Blueline Prospects":

....

?

I hope everyone appreciates the time it took me to compile this extensive list.

Now we have Corrado who wasn't good enough for Toronto, older, and about just as milktoast in the NHL.

Oh and Bengsston if he beats Lyme's disease... And the manages to make the change to NHL ice, then manages to get strong enough to not be Swedish Warsofksy.

Oh and there's... Prow. Sure he was sent down to the ECHL this year and is even older than all of them...

We might have Jeff Taylor next year. He could be the next Ethan Prow!

Okay, but what about Connor Hall. Sure he missed much of last season, and almost all of this season from shoulder surgery, and can't add any offense, and years away from NHL and so are all the other defensive prospects from last year draft.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The fact that you ranked ... ahead of ? shows that you know nothing about corsi and 5v5 shot something analytics.

Damn fancy advanced stats...

Prow and Bengston I guess are prospects? Corrado? Grasping for straws at this point.

Edit: After doing some follow up research, it sounds like Prow will probably never touch the NHL.
And I wouldn't have too much faith in Bengston ever being able to play consistently with lyme. I personally was diagnosed with lyme a year ago and it's been an ongoing battle. I play inline hockey for an hour a couple of times a week and even that kills me. I don't think he'll be able to put up with the daily routine and just as importantly, the travel, which can easily cause just as much if not more fatigue. If he can overcome it, great, but based on my own experiences I wouldn't have too much hope.

Prow is a long way off, if ever.

Bengston is ok, but needs a lot of work as well and his health issues make him a huge question mark.

Corrado couldn't even break into the Leafs ass blueline, and he's a former 5th round pick that is already with his third org.

These guys are actually the cream of the crop behind DP.

Now we have Corrado who wasn't good enough for Toronto, older, and about just as milktoast in the NHL.

Oh and Bengsston if he beats Lyme's disease... And the manages to make the change to NHL ice, then manages to get strong enough to not be Swedish Warsofksy.

Oh and there's... Prow. Sure he was sent down to the ECHL this year and is even older than all of them...

We might have Jeff Taylor next year. He could be the next Ethan Prow!

Okay, but what about Connor Hall. Sure he missed much of last season, and almost all of this season from shoulder surgery, and can't add any offense, and years away from NHL and so are all the other defensive prospects from last year draft.

But... Barry Goers!

 

[Peat]

I appreciate that Pouliot is not on that list.

But honestly, with guys like Letang (29), Dumo (24), Maatta (21) and Schultz (25)--assuming he's re-signed--it's not like there's a pressing need for a youth movement on the blueline. I'd rather fill out the blueline with proven NHLers than to square peg Pouliot in on the bottom pairing just because we feel pressured to based on draft pedigree.

How many more proven NHLers can you fit in around those guys while staying in the salary cap?

We need to get some cheap quality guys in there. Not saying that's Pouliot per se, but we do need a youth movement to keep things affordable.

 

[Riptide]

How many more proven NHLers can you fit in around those guys while staying in the salary cap?

We need to get some cheap quality guys in there. Not saying that's Pouliot per se, but we do need a youth movement to keep things affordable.

All depends on who you're talking about, their age, their wants (win at all costs or make money), and what our options are.

Honestly it wouldn't bother me to sign Hainsey on a 1 year deal - especially if we could do so for less than 2m. I doubt he would cost all that much.

 

[SEALBound]

I appreciate that Pouliot is not on that list.

But honestly, with guys like Letang (29), Dumo (24), Maatta (21) and Schultz (25)--assuming he's re-signed--it's not like there's a pressing need for a youth movement on the blueline. I'd rather fill out the blueline with proven NHLers than to square peg Pouliot in on the bottom pairing just because we feel pressured to based on draft pedigree.

Dear god...Letang is 29...this core is aging. I mean it happens but I remember back to like 2008 and 2009 when he was a young stud call up. I remember he scored like 2 goals in 1 game or in 2 games...then they sent him down.

Does anyone remember what our d-pairings in 2007 and 2008 were?

Gonch, Orpik, Scuds, Sydor...can't even think back that far...

ETA:

Looks like:

Gonch
Eaton (very little)
Gill
Gogo (very little)
Letang (very little)
Nasreddine (totally forgot about him)
Orpik
Scuderi
Sydor
Whitney (spaced him)

2009...

Gonch-Orpik
Gill-Scuderi
Eaton-Letang

Good lord...

 

[AjaxTelamon]

All depends on who you're talking about, their age, their wants (win at all costs or make money), and what our options are.

Honestly it wouldn't bother me to sign Hainsey on a 1 year deal - especially if we could do so for less than 2m. I doubt he would cost all that much.

Considering he can play both sides, I'd be all for it. Not sure how anyone can complain about his play.

 

[Nakawick]

Pouliot could potentially learn a lot from Hainsey and Streit. I hope we give him some time before the playoffs.

 

[Killswitch7187]

Pouliot could potentially learn a lot from Hainsey and Streit. I hope we give him some time before the playoffs.

I don't exactly see that scenario coming to fruition. He's 10th on the organizational depth chart when everyone is healthy.

Dumoulin - Letang
Cole - Schultz
Maatta? - Hainsey
Streit - Daley
Ruhwedel
Pouliot

Ruhwedel has proven himself capable this year, while Pouliot hasn't shown anything at all. I would not mind giving Ruhwedel a one-way contract next season to be our 7th. With that said, giving up on Pouliot would be foolish - but this year just isn't going to provide an opportunity for him to prove himself.

 

[66-30-33]

Pouliot could potentially learn a lot from Hainsey and Streit. I hope we give him some time before the playoffs.

Gonchar is teaching the guy, yes? Nobody better.

 

[Daeni10]

By the way did anyone see the comment below the article about Pouliot going back to the AHL on FB that basically said that he was supposed to become the next Orpik?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

There is always need to have a pipeline of young talented players at each position. It gives you depth, roster and cap flexibility, which are critical for cap strapped teams like the Pens.

Anyway, I have my doubts about Pouliot panning out here, but unless there's a good deal to be had on the trade market, there is no reason to dump him.

Of course it's good to have a consistent flow of young guys coming up, but to keep Pouliot just to keep him doesn't make sense to me. If he continues to bomb out at the NHL level, his value is only going to drop even more. I recognize and appreciate the idea that you should be hopeful and patient with a guy, but Pouliot's never shown anything above "barely competent reserve defenseman" level stuff. He's never shown any flashes of offensive brilliance, which is his calling card, and he's been varying degrees of bad defensively--from simply a liability to Scuderi-levels of horrendous in terms of defense and skating.

How many more proven NHLers can you fit in around those guys while staying in the salary cap?

We need to get some cheap quality guys in there. Not saying that's Pouliot per se, but we do need a youth movement to keep things affordable.

Absolutely, but Pouliot doesn't fit that bill imo.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

By the way did anyone see the comment below the article about Pouliot going back to the AHL on FB that basically said that he was supposed to become the next Orpik?

If it was the 2008-2011 version of Orpik who skated fast, hit hard, blocked shots, and made good breakout passes, I'd take it. If we're talking about the "Hooks Orpik" version, or the current version that skates way out of position to hit guys 3sec after they pass the puck, then he can rot in the AHL.

 

[sauce66871]

My question... with Schultz becoming a great two way RHD (not to mention the love this website has for him), is Letang expendable? Between the draft of this year and next year, assuming Schultz signs a 1-year RFA contract, what would the return for Letang look like?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gonna take a lot more than Schultz's great season to replace Letang. I'm by no means married to Letang, and I'm sick as **** of him missing his annual 15-20 games and playing like **** for another dozen a season, but this blueline needs a ton of work as-is. Tough to justify moving Letang off of it now unless we're getting a significant, bonafide top pairing defenseman back.

 

[cygnus47]

If it was the 2008-2011 version of Orpik who skated fast, hit hard, blocked shots, and made good breakout passes, I'd take it. If we're talking about the "Hooks Orpik" version, or the current version that skates way out of position to hit guys 3sec after they pass the puck, then he can rot in the AHL.

You mean No. 1 in cross-checks after goals against / 60 Orpik? No. 1 in knocking the opponent into your own goalie / 60 Orpik?