Salary Cap: Pens Add Streit & Corrado; Subtract Fehr & 4th Rounders

[JTG]

Ok, but it begs to ask the question why haven't they traded him? So very dumb that they didn't trade him last offseason and now his value is plummeting.

His value isn't plummeting because of anything this organization did. Instead of going to the AHL and tearing it up, he has proven to be an average player. There was no reason to trade him last offseason, the same way there's really no reason to trade him this offseason. The organization is better off burying him in the minors and using him as depth if they can't find a team that wants him as a reclamation project.

 

[Gurglesons]

Major difference. Despres was NHL ready but they refused to play him and signed Mark Eaton from retirement to play over him. I know Streit is old, but he's no Mark Eaton and he's currently better at whatever Pouliot is supposed to excel at.

Pouliot just isn't good enough for this team right now. It's time for the team to get ready for the playoffs, not "let's see what we've got with this kid" time. That time was training camp and early in the season. Unfortunately for Pouliot, he was injured in the early going and then struggled when he did play.

I don't really see how he struggled his last two games. From a stats perspective he was fine.

People just see what they want to see with Pouliot. It is like how he "struggled" last year before the playoffs even though the coaching staff saw fit to start playing him 18-19 minutes.

Honestly, for Pouliot it would probably just be better to move him for a second rounder. He could easily be a # 5 on a team hurting for defense that is willing to let him play.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I don't really see how he struggled his last two games. From a stats perspective he was fine.

People just see what they want to see with Pouliot. It is like how he "struggled" last year before the playoffs even though the coaching staff saw fit to start playing him 18-19 minutes.

Honestly, for Pouliot it would probably just be better to move him for a second rounder. He could easily be a # 5 on a team hurting for defense that is willing to let him play.

If we had done this with Dumo when he came up at the age of 22 and looked pretty bad, then where would we be? D men take longer to develop, where DP was taken in the draft really doesn't matter at this point. He's a 22 year old D that needs more development.

Him having a mediocre year this year is the only way us keeping him, and keeping him for cheap on a 2 way deal, could happen.

 

[Riptide]

Had a couple off-season ideas rattlin' around in the old noggin, wanted to bounce em off you guys to see if I'm crazy to think the other teams would go for either of these:

Maatta+? to CGY for Backlund or TOR for Kadri. Thoughts?

I'd do either. But the odds of either team going for that is probably pretty slim. And if either did, it certainly wouldn't be until after the draft. Calgary at least seems to have more of a need for a top 4LD. Toronto already has a couple good LD, so Maatta doesn't make much sense for them. Besides, Calgary won't move Backlund (if they ever do) until they've moved Bennett to C full time. Last I heard, he's been spending most of his time on the wing.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

If we had done this with Dumo when he came up at the age of 22 and looked pretty bad, then where would we be? D men take longer to develop, where DP was taken in the draft really doesn't matter at this point. He's a 22 year old D that needs more development.

Him having a mediocre year this year is the only way us keeping him, and keeping him for cheap on a 2 way deal, could happen.

At this point they are far better off keeping him and praying for the best. I would not bet my house on it happening, but the chances of him developing into that PMD PP QB we certainly could use, or that arbitrary second round pick doing anything, well I would bet on Pouliot between the two.

 

[Gurglesons]

At this point they are far better off keeping him and praying for the best. I would not bet my house on it happening, but the chances of him developing into that PMD PP QB we certainly could use, or that arbitrary second round pick doing anything, well I would bet on Pouliot between the two.

If you end up signing Schultz, he's not playing here again next year basically.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

If you end up signing Schultz, he's not playing here again next year basically.

So wait and see. If the return is only a second it is not like you lose anything to wait.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I don't really see how he struggled his last two games. From a stats perspective he was fine.

People just see what they want to see with Pouliot. It is like how he "struggled" last year before the playoffs even though the coaching staff saw fit to start playing him 18-19 minutes.

Honestly, for Pouliot it would probably just be better to move him for a second rounder. He could easily be a # 5 on a team hurting for defense that is willing to let him play.

He is not an NHL player at this stage. An NHL #5? How? I don't think he struggled these last two games necessarily, but there is a serious problem with his skating. You simply cannot have a defenseman out there night in, night out that is going to lose every foot race for loose change. It's straight up not cutting it at any level of hockey. People can argue about literally any other aspect of his game as they see fit, but his speed (or at least his acceleration and reaction time) is not acceptable. Period. You just can't have a guy out there that's so severely lacking in an area like that.

Like I said before, the team has done everything in their power to not play him up here more than a short spurt. It's not smoke and mirrors. He is simply not ready.

 

[Coastal Kev]

He is not an NHL player at this stage. An NHL #5? How? I don't think he struggled these last two games necessarily, but there is a serious problem with his skating. You simply cannot have a defenseman out there night in, night out that is going to lose every foot race for loose change. It's straight up not cutting it at any level of hockey. People can argue about literally any other aspect of his game as they see fit, but his speed (or at least his acceleration and reaction time) is not acceptable. Period. You just can't have a guy out there that's so severely lacking in an area like that.

Like I said before, the team has done everything in their power to not play him up here more than a short spurt. It's not smoke and mirrors. He is simply not ready.

I was under the impression when Shero drafted him that he was an excellent skater. I mean, how do you draft an offensive D if he can't keep up with the play? I was confused when the Pens drafted him and nearly 5 years later... I'm even more saltier with the pick. I still remember that draft night and it was beyond obvious the best two options were Trouba and Forsberg, I wanted the latter. If anyone knows Ray Shero, have him PM to discuss please.

 

[Shady Machine]

If you end up signing Schultz, he's not playing here again next year basically.

I wouldn't go that far. Even if we retain all our current D, we'd have:

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Cole-xxx

With Daley gone, there's a spot for a mobile PMD to fill the 3rd pair.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The writing was on the wall with Pouliot when we made a trade for Schultz. Management either thought Pouliot was nowhere near where he needed to be developmentally or were essentially throwing in the towel on the guy for the most part. Schultz fits the exact role Pouliot was supposed to, and is doing an immeasurably better job of it. There's simply nowhere for Pouliot to play even if he hadn't stagnated or regressed.

Pouliot is supposed to be a game-changer from the blueline. A guy who can hold his own defensively while adding something significant offensively; be it scoring opportunities, or simply puck movement quick up to the forwards. He's shown absolutely no signs of that in any of his time with the big club. He's been varying degrees of bad defensively, sometimes embarrassingly so, and he's been a non-factor offensively. Frankly, it doesn't really matter to me what he does in the AHL if it doesn't transition to the NHL level.

Was a bad pick when it happened, and I don't think he's ever going to pan out here. Call it a bust, trade him--as a change of scenery/expectations and a blueline where he's not like tenth in line will probably help--and move on.

 

[Gurglesons]

He is not an NHL player at this stage. An NHL #5? How? I don't think he struggled these last two games necessarily, but there is a serious problem with his skating. You simply cannot have a defenseman out there night in, night out that is going to lose every foot race for loose change. It's straight up not cutting it at any level of hockey. People can argue about literally any other aspect of his game as they see fit, but his speed (or at least his acceleration and reaction time) is not acceptable. Period. You just can't have a guy out there that's so severely lacking in an area like that.

Like I said before, the team has done everything in their power to not play him up here more than a short spurt. It's not smoke and mirrors. He is simply not ready.

He was playing # 5 / # 6 minutes last year when we started to go on our insane run of wins in February and March.

Then we scratched him and he hasn't played consistently since. It has obviously had a huge impact on his confidence especially given his difference in points in WBS between his first two years and this year. Not to mention he only plays 30 games in WBS each year, then we bring him up, then he gets hurt.

People are severely underestimating how much he's been pulled up and down and also injured and how that has effected a player already struggling.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

He was playing # 5 / # 6 minutes last year when we started to go on our insane run of wins in February and March.

Then we scratched him and he hasn't played consistently since. It has obviously had a huge impact on his confidence especially given his difference in points in WBS between his first two years and this year. Not to mention he only plays 30 games in WBS each year, then we bring him up, then he gets hurt.

People are severely underestimating how much he's been pulled up and down and also injured and how that has effected a player already struggling.

Again I don't understand this line of thinking. What is the solution? We bring guys up for long periods even if they're unfit/not ready to play here? Plus it's not like they don't talk to these players and ensure they understand where they're at in their development and what's expected of them.

I grant you he's been hurt and he's young still, but even if I agreed with the rest of what you say above it doesn't change the fact that he can't skate and hasn't provided anything that plugs like Ruhwedel and Gaunce haven't. It's not that big a difference between those players right now, and that's exactly why he's in WBS. To get better. They wanted to take a look at him recently and they did. It's honestly nothing that doesn't happen many times across many teams in the league. It's simply part of development.

 

[Shady Machine]

He was playing # 5 / # 6 minutes last year when we started to go on our insane run of wins in February and March.

Then we scratched him and he hasn't played consistently since. It has obviously had a huge impact on his confidence especially given his difference in points in WBS between his first two years and this year. Not to mention he only plays 30 games in WBS each year, then we bring him up, then he gets hurt.

People are severely underestimating how much he's been pulled up and down and also injured and how that has effected a player already struggling.

Sorry I don't buy that. The org has blown enough smoke up his ass and given him enough opportunities to shine. They haven't managed his development perfectly or anything, but he hasn't done himself any favors. He just hasn't been good enough.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I was under the impression when Shero drafted him that he was an excellent skater. I mean, how do you draft an offensive D if he can't keep up with the play? I was confused when the Pens drafted him and nearly 5 years later... I'm even more saltier with the pick. I still remember that draft night and it was beyond obvious the best two options were Trouba and Forsberg, I wanted the latter. If anyone knows Ray Shero, have him PM to discuss please.

I watch DP and I don't see a guy who does any one thing particularly well

 

[66-30-33]

I wouldn't go that far. Even if we retain all our current D, we'd have:

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Cole-xxx

With Daley gone, there's a spot for a mobile PMD to fill the 3rd pair.

I'd keep Hainsey on a 1 year deal. Maybe try for Kulikov in the offseason. Maatta for a 3C. Call it an offseason. Or skip Kulikov and target someone we have not talked about that we can fit in? IDK who, someone who can chip in a little bit but we can develop to be more of a stay at home type. An ideal partner for someone who's a PMD.

 

[Gurglesons]

I grant you he's been hurt and he's young still, but even if I agreed with the rest of what you say above it doesn't change the fact that he can't skate and hasn't provided anything that plugs like Ruhwedel and Gaunce haven't. It's not that big a difference between those players right now, and that's exactly why he's in WBS. To get better. They wanted to take a look at him recently and they did. It's honestly nothing that doesn't happen many times across many teams in the league. It's simply part of development.

They haven't done that outside of this year though. It seems like they want him to be a # 7 on the team and expect him to perform. If he's traded to a team like Arizona or New Jersey that would actually let him play 15 - 18 minutes a game, I'm sure he'd actually develop into a player that could play those kind of minutes. Right now he is in that weird middle ground of being called up to fill in and never playing.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

They haven't done that outside of this year though. It seems like they want him to be a # 7 on the team and expect him to perform. If he's traded to a team like Arizona or New Jersey that would actually let him play 15 - 18 minutes a game, I'm sure he'd actually develop into a player that could play those kind of minutes. Right now he is in that weird middle ground of being called up to fill in and never playing.

I think when you plug a guy into the lineup and let it ride like that he can gain confidence, or lose it. Especially a defenseman. He had a good stint up here and he's had a few unspectacular or bad ones too, and I think he has glaring flaws currently. That's why I have no problem with what they're doing with him, especially with the injuries. Let him get completely comfortable at the AHL level and then hopefully progress forward. Also I think it's worth noting that he doesn't do them an incredible amount of good if he manages to simply keep his head above water up here, so I do think expectations play a part in this right or wrong.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think when you plug a guy into the lineup and let it ride like that he can gain confidence, or lose it. Especially a defenseman. He had a good stint up here and he's had a few unspectacular or bad ones too, and I think he has glaring flaws currently. That's why I have no problem with what they're doing with him, especially with the injuries. Let him get completely comfortable at the AHL level and then hopefully progress forward. Also I think it's worth noting that he doesn't do them an incredible amount of good if he manages to simply keep his head above water up here, so I do think expectations play a part in this right or wrong.

I think he looked hit or miss in 2015. He looked like he could fill out a #5/6 role on that team and was playing big minutes up until his injury.

He looked good in 2016 and brought a nice little infusion of youth on the backend before we traded for Schultz who immediately started playing above him.

He looked okay in the Toronto and Los Angeles game this year then got his ice time cut to 10 minutes for Olesky and hasn't played consistently since.

I don't see how any of those situations are playing him where he can develop or even gain a rhythm. Especially given his age. The only time he had sustained ice time he looked like he was rounding out and adjusting to the NHL and he got injured or immediately replaced with Schultz. A Schultz who they basically trusted even less based on his ice time and zone starts.

I think a lot of it is on the player for being inconsistent, but those acting like we gave Pouliot every chance are a little off base.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I think he looked hit or miss in 2015. He looked like he could fill out a #5/6 role on that team and was playing big minutes up until his injury.

He looked good in 2016 and brought a nice little infusion of youth on the backend before we traded for Schultz who immediately started playing above him.

He looked okay in the Toronto and Los Angeles game this year then got his ice time cut to 10 minutes for Olesky and hasn't played consistently since.

I don't see how any of those situations are playing him where he can develop or even gain a rhythm. Especially given his age. The only time he had sustained ice time he looked like he was rounding out and adjusting to the NHL and he got injured or immediately replaced with Schultz. A Schultz who they basically trusted even less based on his ice time and zone starts.

I think a lot of it is on the player for being inconsistent, but those acting like we gave Pouliot every chance are a little off base.

I guess it just comes down to how many chances one thinks he has deserved. I personally just see inconsistency, so I'm good with how they're handling him. The Schultz thing was just a wonky situation without a solution that'd please everyone. JR wanted a player and someone had to sit. Where we differ is I just disagree that stuff like that is a cause for substantial regression. Him gaining and keeping confidence is part of his development, or for any player. Unless you're a clear cut NHLer you really just have to play hard wherever they put you. If you're not happy you'll eventually be able to go somewhere else.

 

[Doogle]

I watch DP and I don't see a guy who does any one thing particularly well

He can sneak the shot on net from the point better than a lot of guys, but it doesn't outweigh the glaring negatives. His anticipation is severely lacking, and because of that, he is always a step late to the play or getting caught flat footed. It's not so much that his skating or foot speed is slow, it's the fact that any foot race he partakes in, he gets off the starting block a second and a half too late.

 

[billybudd]

He can sneak the shot on net from the point better than a lot of guys, but it doesn't outweigh the glaring negatives. His anticipation is severely lacking, and because of that, he is always a step late to the play or getting caught flat footed. It's not so much that his skating or foot speed is slow, it's the fact that any foot race he partakes in, he gets off the starting block a second and a half too late.

Respectfully disagree. To me, DP always takes too long to decide that he wants to shoot and it gives a guy a chance to get into the lane. It's why so many of his point shots lead to turnovers.

Just goes to the general "speed of anticipation" thing, which, if he wants to be in the NHL, he's got to fix.

 

[Pancakes]

I watch DP and I don't see a guy who does any one thing particularly well

His passing and lateral movement on the blueline both looked exceptional when he first got called up. Trouble is ever since then even those attributes seem gone. Maybe he fit in better with the slower skating style the Bylsma/Johnston Pens played. I don't know.

I think you can make up for being a subpar skater speedwise. I said it before but Pouliot's comparable should be a guy like Andrei Markov. He should study film of him. They're like the same size, and both are known for their puckmoving abilities but lack strong skating otherwise.

It's not impossible for Pouliot to put it together but it's not looking good. I think a fresh start in an org with terrible depth would probably be good for him at this point.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

For all those in a hurry to shoot DP into the sun, I've taken the time to create a list of the Pens blueline prospects that have a realistic shot at the NHL. I've listed the players in alphabetical order, and the board can rate their potential as they see fit.

The "Big List of Pens Blueline Prospects":

....

?

I hope everyone appreciates the time it took me to compile this extensive list.

 

[66-30-33]

For all those in a hurry to shoot DP into the sun, I've taken the time to create a list of the Pens blueline prospects that have a realistic shot at the NHL. I've listed the players in alphabetical order, and the board can rate their potential as they see fit.

The "Big List of Pens Blueline Prospects":

....

?

I hope everyone appreciates the time it took me to compile this extensive list.

I think ? will be better at the NHL then .... but that's just my opinion.