Confirmed with Link: Pens acquire Daniel Winnik for Sill, 2016 2nd, 2015 4th (Leafs retain $650k salary)

[gordie]

the trade is fine. a late second has less than a 40% chance of playing over 60 games in the league anyway. Winnik has been producing at a second line rate for the last three years so he should elevate the third line

Described by certain Leaf fans as a fleecing? When have the Toronto Maple Leafs ever got it done at the draft table in June?? I bet they screw up those picks if they do use them and get nothing just like the Atlanta Thrashers did with the Hossa deal.

 

[deakka]

People also need to tak into account that all Winniks Points have come at even strength.

Hes way ahead of Sutter, Spalling etc. Hes also ahead of Hornqvist and has the same amount as Comeau, altho the last two guys have missed some games.

So even tho the reason we aquired him are mostly due to size, PK ability etc, he is our best ES producer in our bottom 6, and not that far off from being able to top-6 in a pinch.

Dont know if that makes me sad or happy tbh.....

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t41Re3ihvzQ

 

[Gooch]

Rutherford proving time and time again he was the absolute WRONG choice. Didnt he talk a big game about the importance of having draft picks? In less than a year he's spending them like candy.

 

[Gooch]

Teams that don't groom their own talent are destined for failure. At some point in the very near future, our lack of Player development will cause this team to bottom out.

Having Crosby and Malkin is providing serious cover for inept scouting and poor managerial decisions.

Yep, only bad teams don't build from within. It's pretty much that way in any sport, especially so one with a salary cap.

There's a financial aspect to this as well as quality of player element. We keep getting players when they're already getting paid their high market value. We are passing up on opportunities to get players exceeding their actual cap hit in value so our cap situation is one where we're not getting surplus value on the ice and in a league where that is the limiter for teams it's why we havent had that extra edge we needed.

People keep looking at a 3rd or a 2nd in isolation and dont calculate them all. Each one of them is like a lottery ticket that can possibly produce a player that can far exceed his cap value. You get a few of those on a roster and you have a HUGE advantage over your rivals.

 

[Vegeta]

JR is a joke. Tlusty went for less, and Jagr went for a tiny bit more, and of the three Winnik is by far the least impactful player. I have no idea why they wanted this kid, he doesn't stand out at all from the rest of the losers in Toronto. Yeah he busted his balls there, but how many times have we traded for players with good work ethic elsewhere, only to watch them settle into complacency in the Burgh. I'll give him 2 months tops before we're complaining about his laziness on the ice too.

Edit: I pretty much agree with Gooch on everything; that's why I believe if you're trading a 1st-2nd round draft pick, you better be trading it for someone who contribute in the top 6. Winnik is another dime a dozen player, but we paid a premium for him.

 

[66-30-33]

JR is a joke. Tlusty went for less, and Jagr went for a tiny bit more, and of the three Winnik is by far the least impactful player. I have no idea why they wanted this kid, he doesn't stand out at all from the rest of the losers in Toronto. Yeah he busted his balls there, but how many times have we traded for players with good work ethic elsewhere, only to watch them settle into complacency in the Burgh. I'll give him 2 months tops before we're complaining about his laziness on the ice too.

Tlusty has 3 goals in his last 30 games.....if you take away those 2 Pens games where he combined for 5 goals, he's had 8 goals in 50 games. I rather have a bottom 6er with 7 goals then a top 6er that can't score.

 

[Vegeta]

Tlusty has 3 goals in his last 30 games.....if you take away those 2 Pens games where he combined for 5 goals, he's had 8 goals in 50 games. I rather have a bottom 6er with 7 goals then a top 6er that can't score.

For a 2nd and a 4th, you shouldn't want either; though of the two I'd much rather have Tlusty at his price and his potential upside than pay out the ass for Winnik and his averageness.

 

[66-30-33]

For a 2nd and a 4th, you shouldn't want either; though of the two I'd much rather have Tlusty at his price and his potential upside than pay out the ass for Winnik and his averageness.

2nd in 2016, 4th in 2015, half of Winniks cap hit and Sill. Slight overpayment but it's not awful one bit. Tlusty would have been useless here, glad we did not pay up for him.

 

[Will Hunting]

2nd in 2016, 4th in 2015, half of Winniks cap hit and Sill. Slight overpayment but it's not awful one bit. Tlusty would have been useless here, glad we did not pay up for him.

Exactly. Also, we didn´t even have the capspace for Tlusty and Winnik under these circumstances costs us no space. Fair deal on all accounts to me. We will love Winnik quickly imo, but the big question comes in the offseason too.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

2nd in 2016, 4th in 2015, half of Winniks cap hit and Sill. Slight overpayment but it's not awful one bit. Tlusty would have been useless here, glad we did not pay up for him.

We also would've had to clear cap space somehow which would've costed additional assets. I'm not thrilled about the price but I'll wait and see.

 

[66-30-33]

We also would've had to clear cap space somehow which would've costed additional assets. I'm not thrilled about the price but I'll wait and see.

Clear space for someone else for JR. If we got Tlusty, we wont be doing any more moves.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Rutherford proving time and time again he was the absolute WRONG choice. Didnt he talk a big game about the importance of having draft picks? In less than a year he's spending them like candy.

JR. is keeping the guys they have and moving out the less sure assets to fix all the wrong done.

Serious question, did you guys think that would come free or cheap?

There's a balance going on here by keeping those high quality prospects to move forward with.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

I really find it funny that people are going so bananas over a 2016 2nd round pick and a 2015 4th rounder.

Again, the ONLY focus for this team should be making legit cup runs NOW. Not years from now. We can easily get back a 2nd rounder via trade if need be, and JR once again addressed a legitamate need that we have heading into the playoffs. I'm tired of squandering prime years off of Sid and Geno's careers...

 

[Waffle Fries]

Rutherford proving time and time again he was the absolute WRONG choice. Didnt he talk a big game about the importance of having draft picks? In less than a year he's spending them like candy.

I don't know how you can look at all the moves that JR has made and have an issue with him as a GM. He's done a great job revamping the team and bringing in elements that we need.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that our lineup in Game 7 last year was

Kunitz-Crosby-Gibbons
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Glass-Sutter-Stempniak
Vitale-Goc-Adams

 

[WayneSid9987]

JR. is keeping the guys they have and moving out the less sure assets to fix all the wrong done.

Serious question, did you guys think that would come free or cheap?

There's a balance going on here by keeping those high quality prospects to move forward with.

Exactly. JR was either gonna move picks or prospects and he hasn't traded 1 good prospect yet and they are worth more than picks imo.

 

[66-30-33]

#Innik2Winnik

 

[Wes C Addle]

I don't know how you can look at all the moves that JR has made and have an issue with him as a GM. He's done a great job revamping the team and bringing in elements that we need.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that our lineup in Game 7 last year was

Kunitz-Crosby-Gibbons
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Glass-Sutter-Stempniak
Vitale-Goc-Adams

That's one ugly baby.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

I don't know how you can look at all the moves that JR has made and have an issue with him as a GM. He's done a great job revamping the team and bringing in elements that we need.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that our lineup in Game 7 last year was

Kunitz-Crosby-Gibbons
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Glass-Sutter-Stempniak
Vitale-Goc-Adams

Amen. Within less than 1 year on the job he's managed to clean up A LOT of Shero's mistakes while focusing on actually addressing this team's actual NEEDS. If people are willing to overlook that because of a couple of draft picks then hey, have at it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't know how you can look at all the moves that JR has made and have an issue with him as a GM. He's done a great job revamping the team and bringing in elements that we need.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that our lineup in Game 7 last year was

Kunitz-Crosby-Gibbons
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Glass-Sutter-Stempniak
Vitale-Goc-Adams

People should also be reminded that the cap was rolled back last year which necessitated some roster compromises, and both Niskanen and Orpik came off the books this year. Our blueline looked much better last year, too.

JR's done a good job, but he's had a lot more flexibility than Shero had last season. The playoffs before (2013), the Pens roster was as deep as it had been since the prime Lemieux/Jagr years.

 

[systemsgo]

I don't know how you can look at all the moves that JR has made and have an issue with him as a GM. He's done a great job revamping the team and bringing in elements that we need.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that our lineup in Game 7 last year was

Kunitz-Crosby-Gibbons
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Glass-Sutter-Stempniak
Vitale-Goc-Adams

That brings back nightmares.

 

[66-30-33]

Exactly. JR was either gonna move picks or prospects and he hasn't traded 1 good prospect yet and they are worth more than picks imo.

People also got to realize it's YEAR 1 of JR, not everything is going to be fixed asap. Pens will look much different by this time in YEAR 3. Hopefully much bigger bottom 6 and our final winger had. If we had Shero we would probably trade for Letestu, claim Gibbons, kept Arco not have Downie, Comeau, Hornqvist, Perron, etc. I shudder to think what our roster would look like.

 

[Waffle Fries]

People should also be reminded that the cap was rolled back last year which necessitated some roster compromises, and both Niskanen and Orpik came off the books this year. Our blueline looked much better last year, too.

JR's done a good job, but he's had a lot more flexibility than Shero had last season. The playoffs before (2013), the Pens roster was as deep as it had been since the prime Lemieux/Jagr years.

Shero could have created some flexibility by trading one of Niskanen or Orpik. Or you know, just not signing Scuderi. He created his own inflexibility.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

People also got to realize it's YEAR 1 of JR, not everything is going to be fixed asap. Pens will look much different by this time in YEAR 3. Hopefully much bigger bottom 6 and our final winger had. If we had Shero we would probably trade for Letestu, claim Gibbons, kept Arco not have Downie, Comeau, Hornqvist, Perron, etc. I shudder to think what our roster would look like.

Even though I'm not super excited about every single move, this just cannot be stated enough. It seems like he has a plan and we've gotten bigger and/or tougher with pretty much every move (without going full McGrattan or something like that).

I also appreciate his ability to easily let go of marginal players he claimed again when it's clear that they're not going to help.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

After considering things, here's my view.

+ Winnik is exactly the type of player we need. JR has been spot on in identifying needs so far.
+ Retained salary
+ Pens have a good chance of extending him
- Pens lose 2 picks when the team is already low on them, and needs to restock the system. (or needs assets for longterm solutions)
- Unless we re-sign him or go on a deep run, it is an overpayment. I don't believe this team is in a position where it should rent any players.

Overall, a good but risky deal.