Post-Game Talk: Pens 4, Rangers 3 - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Sweep

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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Pittsburgh
Some interesting thoughts in the Hockeywriters piece linked below.

On Sutter:

Θ I’m not a big fan of Brandon Sutter’s lack of physicality and general inconsistency, but he’s stepped up his game once again in the playoffs. Sutter isn’t good along the boards and doesn’t have a quick release to catch-and-shoot off the cycle, but he’s establishing himself as one of the best in the league off the rush. Not many players in today’s game can consistently beat goalies coming down the wing like Sutter can. Pittsburgh needs to somehow find ways to get him more of those opportunities.

Θ Sutter is a player that needs talented linemates to thrive. He’s not going to generate offense on his own. The problem is it’s tough in today’s cap era to surround him with decent wingers on a third line. Sutter makes $3.3 million. If you assume above-average wingers cost at least the same, an ideal third line for Sutter would total almost $10 million. The Penguins will never be able to afford that in the Sidney Crosby-Evgeni Malkin model. Prediction: A team with a second-line center need will come to the same conclusion and trade for Sutter this summer.

On MJ outcoaching AV (or at least attempting to match lines where AV did not):

Former Penguins coach Dan Bylsma didn’t like to match lines. He preferred to dictate the game and force other teams to scramble for matchups against his big guns. Rangers coach Alain Vigneault claims he’s not matching lines in this series — although he does seem to be targeting certain matchups with his defensive pairs.

Mike Johnston does a lot more line matching and the strategy has paid off so far in this series. Rangers rookie Kevin Hayes is no match for Crosby’s line, especially when Hayes is often flanked by two smaller wingers in Hagelin and Martin St. Louis. If the Hayes line can get sustained offensive zone time, they’re fine, but that wasn’t the case in Game 2 and Crosby made them pay.

On Chourney vs. Doumolin:

Θ Taylor Chorney isn’t Kris Letang, but he’s held his own in his playoff début. He’s even been an asset on the second powerplay unit, directing the breakout and distributing the puck with confidence in the offensive zone. Pittsburgh shouldn’t rush to give Chorney ($550k and UFA at year-end) Paul Martin or Christian Erhoff’s money when the two leave for free agency this summer, but Chorney is carving out a spot at the NHL level.

Θ The same can’t be said of Brian Dumoulin. Rough start in limited minutes for a young defenseman that’s in over his head in playoff hockey. The Penguins don’t have much of a choice. Scott Harrington would be no better at this point and Ehrhoff is lingering in the fuzzy “day-to-day†world of playoff injuries. Dumoulin is lucky his panic turnovers and unnecessary icings haven’t backfired so far. Johnston needs to be very careful with his deployment of the nervous rookie.

There is a lot more, a worthwhile read:

http://thehockeywriters.com/emptying-notebook-penguins-rangers/
 

DegenX

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Aug 14, 2011
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I thought Comeau had a good game yesterday. Don't think he deserves to sit. If he's injured (which wouldn't be surprising) then give him a night off, but based on his play I don't see a reason to sit him.

I'd be hesitant to scratch anyone who's managed to score.

With the way the refs are handling the Pens, Downie is something of a liability. I love his emotion, but it's dangerous. He was slamming his stick on the ice when penalties were called when he was on. I'm pretty sure he sat almost the entire third period, too. It's a bit of a risk to put him out there, despite his positive qualities. I really wouldn't mind swapping him for Wilson just to see what happens.

Fair enough. Then swap out Downs and put Comeau in his spot. Or just leave it as is.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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I was suggesting they need to embellish to get calls. I really don't care what the moral authorities say about diving/embellishing. This team is getting royally screwed by the refs.

And the bolded part is the problem. Again, I have no issue with this team being penalized. It is just the Rangers don't receive as much as a look from the refs when they commit blatant infractions. As you said, enough with the BS.

However, if this trend adds to the 'us vs. the world' mentality, then so be it.

I think that after the PP opportunities hit 7-1 ... AGAIN .... the Pens did decide to lay on the ice after they got a headshot. Oh I am sure it hurt and that Crosby and Comeau were shaken. But they stayed down I am sure to make a point. And it was the right move. Those refs should be embarrassed. They should be fired. But if they do anything close to that in Pittsburgh flop all over the ice. Stay down. Make a point.
 

Hophog

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Aug 7, 2006
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Hershey, PA
Given the reports from DK, I wonder if we scratched Downie if the refs would give us 32 power plays to none for the Rangers in response.

That's a good question. I looked at the other teams that played yesterday and the biggest disparity in power plays was 3-1. Everyone else had only 1 pp more than the other and I didn't check but I'm fairly certain that nobody has had the 12-3 disparity that the Pens had until late in the third last night. Most of the other series are much more physical to boot so you would think there would be more penalties if you were to assume that they games and series were being called with any sort of attempt at fairness.
 

Fordy

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May 28, 2008
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downie's only playing 5 minutes. if he's seriously getting that much attention from the refs in that amount of time, well, i'm not against swapping him out for farnham or wilson or rust. the speed and not being downie factor could be more useful for 5 minutes a night
 

radapex

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Sep 21, 2012
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Exactly! JR should have stopped with the Cole trade. Bortz for Lovejoy and Depres for Cole would have been more palatable, considering Coles play but we could have had Cole and Depres which would have been much better IMO.

At any rate. I thought Dumo looked really good in the second half of last nights game. It looks like he's shaken off the nerves and started to make some nice passes and skate the puck with some authority. If he keeps that up the Depres trade may start to sting a lot less over time.

I feel like the lack of right-handed defenseman was a fairly big catalyst in the Lovejoy trade. They've got a grand total of three RH defenseman within the organization with NHL contracts - Letang (NHL/IR), Lovejoy (NHL), and Ruopp (ECHL).
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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This ties into something I think Burgundy or Ogre said yesterday about stick infractions.

BTW, for those still wondering about WTF Geno was thinking on the EN sequence . . .



Memo to Geno: Only funny because it didn't matter in the end. Next time, one of you or Sid just needs to be selfish.

Also this . . .



She meant 85 percent

Also, on the injury front . . .
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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It's going to be really interesting to see how Vigneault adjusts for next game. I feel like Johnston has done a good job last night to take away the stretch pass, now the ball is in AV's court.

There's a Bylsma like arrogance there so far with respect to AV and the stretch pass/line matching.

Kind of surprising. Perhaps ironic is the better word choice.
 

IcedCapp

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Aug 7, 2009
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Maybe I'm misreading things, but I feel like the rangers are ready to come unhinged. If you can push them with a game 3 win, it gets really, really interesting.
 

crawz87

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Mar 18, 2010
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Lol. I love being the underdog. Rangers fans are really scared. The pens have really outplayed them at even strength.
 

djt153

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Dec 26, 2003
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Maybe I'm misreading things, but I feel like the rangers are ready to come unhinged. If you can push them with a game 3 win, it gets really, really interesting.

and yandle seems like the focal point. a bit of extra attention and he's going to do something really really stupid.

on another note, i still dont see dumoulin as being all that bad and think he has at least shown his skating is nhl caliber.
 

IcedCapp

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Aug 7, 2009
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and yandle seems like the focal point. a bit of extra attention and he's going to do something really really stupid.

on another note, i still dont see dumoulin as being all that bad and think he has at least shown his skating is nhl caliber.

Someone posted third period ice times earlier. Scuderi and Dumo should have been flipped. He looked fine last night.
 

djt153

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Someone posted third period ice times earlier. Scuderi and Dumo should have been flipped. He looked fine last night.

yeah, that makes sense to me. just seems weird that colligan seems to have it out for him. he had a few nervy moments in game 1, but was largely anonymous last night which is perfectly adequate for a defenseman in the playoffs
 

KIRK

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Maybe I'm misreading things, but I feel like the rangers are ready to come unhinged. If you can push them with a game 3 win, it gets really, really interesting.

You're not. Almost sounds like they're us . . . or the old us.

Now, they still may come out and spank us, but you listen to them and you watch the arrogance with which AV is coaching, and it's just ironic to behold.

Comeau. He and Kunitz are the only guys who've taken penalties in both games. Also, it might be a good idea, anyway, after those good, strong hockey plays Yandle was directing his way.

Perron needs to go back to being on the left side. Winnik and Downs work well together, so put them with Sutter and bump BB up with Geno. Also, sit Scuderi for Harry. Use rest as an excuse to alternate sitting him and Lovejoy the next two games.

Kunitz (hurt to type that) - Sid - Horny
Perron - Geno - BB
Winnik - Sutter - Downs
Wilson - Spaling - Lappy

Comeau on L4.

I think that's your L3.

I can't fathom MJ going with that L3, in greatest part because of what it's going to demand of Malkin defensively.

That said, I think in his mind L1 and L4 are set. It's L2 and L3 that need work . . . Sutter, for as awesome as he's been on special teams, still isn't showing much with his line ES and you need to find a combination that, with Malkin at 85% or whatever, is going to mitigate the need for Malkin to do it all offensively while protecting him a little in terms of the defensive demands.
 

IcedCapp

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Aug 7, 2009
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yeah, that makes sense to me. just seems weird that colligan seems to have it out for him. he had a few nervy moments in game 1, but was largely anonymous last night which is perfectly adequate for a defenseman in the playoffs

I've rarely been impressed with Dumo, but he didn't unimpress me last night... Should let him build on it.
 

djt153

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Dec 26, 2003
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I've rarely been impressed with Dumo, but he didn't unimpress me last night... Should let him build on it.

which wont happen since the steadiness seems to come from having the high comfort level with chorney. that bottom pair should be set in stone and lovejoy should come out, but yeahhhhh not gonna happen. scuderi too much to ask for.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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Some interesting thoughts in the Hockeywriters piece linked below.

On Sutter:

Θ I’m not a big fan of Brandon Sutter’s lack of physicality and general inconsistency, but he’s stepped up his game once again in the playoffs. Sutter isn’t good along the boards and doesn’t have a quick release to catch-and-shoot off the cycle, but he’s establishing himself as one of the best in the league off the rush. Not many players in today’s game can consistently beat goalies coming down the wing like Sutter can. Pittsburgh needs to somehow find ways to get him more of those opportunities.

Θ Sutter is a player that needs talented linemates to thrive. He’s not going to generate offense on his own. The problem is it’s tough in today’s cap era to surround him with decent wingers on a third line. Sutter makes $3.3 million. If you assume above-average wingers cost at least the same, an ideal third line for Sutter would total almost $10 million. The Penguins will never be able to afford that in the Sidney Crosby-Evgeni Malkin model. Prediction: A team with a second-line center need will come to the same conclusion and trade for Sutter this summer.

On MJ outcoaching AV (or at least attempting to match lines where AV did not):

Former Penguins coach Dan Bylsma didn’t like to match lines. He preferred to dictate the game and force other teams to scramble for matchups against his big guns. Rangers coach Alain Vigneault claims he’s not matching lines in this series — although he does seem to be targeting certain matchups with his defensive pairs.

Mike Johnston does a lot more line matching and the strategy has paid off so far in this series. Rangers rookie Kevin Hayes is no match for Crosby’s line, especially when Hayes is often flanked by two smaller wingers in Hagelin and Martin St. Louis. If the Hayes line can get sustained offensive zone time, they’re fine, but that wasn’t the case in Game 2 and Crosby made them pay.

On Chourney vs. Doumolin:

Θ Taylor Chorney isn’t Kris Letang, but he’s held his own in his playoff début. He’s even been an asset on the second powerplay unit, directing the breakout and distributing the puck with confidence in the offensive zone. Pittsburgh shouldn’t rush to give Chorney ($550k and UFA at year-end) Paul Martin or Christian Erhoff’s money when the two leave for free agency this summer, but Chorney is carving out a spot at the NHL level.

Θ The same can’t be said of Brian Dumoulin. Rough start in limited minutes for a young defenseman that’s in over his head in playoff hockey. The Penguins don’t have much of a choice. Scott Harrington would be no better at this point and Ehrhoff is lingering in the fuzzy “day-to-day†world of playoff injuries. Dumoulin is lucky his panic turnovers and unnecessary icings haven’t backfired so far. Johnston needs to be very careful with his deployment of the nervous rookie.

There is a lot more, a worthwhile read:

http://thehockeywriters.com/emptying-notebook-penguins-rangers/

Great stuff on Sutter.

Quick note: You can give 3 centers what they need if you draft well.
 

Sutter16

Registered User
Aug 17, 2012
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0
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Some interesting thoughts in the Hockeywriters piece linked below.

On Sutter:

Θ I’m not a big fan of Brandon Sutter’s lack of physicality and general inconsistency, but he’s stepped up his game once again in the playoffs. Sutter isn’t good along the boards and doesn’t have a quick release to catch-and-shoot off the cycle, but he’s establishing himself as one of the best in the league off the rush. Not many players in today’s game can consistently beat goalies coming down the wing like Sutter can. Pittsburgh needs to somehow find ways to get him more of those opportunities.

Θ Sutter is a player that needs talented linemates to thrive. He’s not going to generate offense on his own. The problem is it’s tough in today’s cap era to surround him with decent wingers on a third line. Sutter makes $3.3 million. If you assume above-average wingers cost at least the same, an ideal third line for Sutter would total almost $10 million. The Penguins will never be able to afford that in the Sidney Crosby-Evgeni Malkin model. Prediction: A team with a second-line center need will come to the same conclusion and trade for Sutter this summer.

On MJ outcoaching AV (or at least attempting to match lines where AV did not):

Former Penguins coach Dan Bylsma didn’t like to match lines. He preferred to dictate the game and force other teams to scramble for matchups against his big guns. Rangers coach Alain Vigneault claims he’s not matching lines in this series — although he does seem to be targeting certain matchups with his defensive pairs.

Mike Johnston does a lot more line matching and the strategy has paid off so far in this series. Rangers rookie Kevin Hayes is no match for Crosby’s line, especially when Hayes is often flanked by two smaller wingers in Hagelin and Martin St. Louis. If the Hayes line can get sustained offensive zone time, they’re fine, but that wasn’t the case in Game 2 and Crosby made them pay.

On Chourney vs. Doumolin:

Θ Taylor Chorney isn’t Kris Letang, but he’s held his own in his playoff début. He’s even been an asset on the second powerplay unit, directing the breakout and distributing the puck with confidence in the offensive zone. Pittsburgh shouldn’t rush to give Chorney ($550k and UFA at year-end) Paul Martin or Christian Erhoff’s money when the two leave for free agency this summer, but Chorney is carving out a spot at the NHL level.

Θ The same can’t be said of Brian Dumoulin. Rough start in limited minutes for a young defenseman that’s in over his head in playoff hockey. The Penguins don’t have much of a choice. Scott Harrington would be no better at this point and Ehrhoff is lingering in the fuzzy “day-to-day†world of playoff injuries. Dumoulin is lucky his panic turnovers and unnecessary icings haven’t backfired so far. Johnston needs to be very careful with his deployment of the nervous rookie.

There is a lot more, a worthwhile read:

http://thehockeywriters.com/emptying-notebook-penguins-rangers/

Ya Mike Colligan's work is fantastic. He's bang on with everything about Sutter. Hope the trade prediction is a correct one.
 

KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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Ya Mike Colligan's work is fantastic. He's bang on with everything about Sutter. Hope the trade prediction is a correct one.

With JR, you never know, but the Pens really don't have the cap space to extend Sutter at what it's going to cost, even if the rid themselves of Kunitz and Scuderi. If a team offers legit 2C value, I think you take it and use Spaling as a stopgap for Sundqvist and then use the 2.5M or so in added cap flexibility, along with money saved by moving Kunitz and Scuderi, to reshape the top six the right way.
 

rmartin65

Registered User
Apr 7, 2011
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I wonder if something can be worked out with Nashville around a Sutter-Wilson deal. I am always impressed with his game when I watch Nashville.
 

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