GDT: Pens 2024 Trade Deadline Thread: Jake Shake Talk here

[Gurglesons]

And Smith is 49 with no balls. There was no market for these players atm without taking bad money back.

Dubas has proven through his first 9 months he isn’t a very creative GM.

He’s taken the easy, uncreative route in multiple decisions he’s made. The media is giving him a lot of space because of how quickly he needed to come in and make changes. I’ll align with that view and say it’s understandable.

That being said, I don’t excuse market inequality for Dubas. He overplayed his hand on Guentzel and likely should’ve engaged and had a trade done over a week ago. Calgary and Montreal read the room there.

It likely gives him way more time to work through a Smith, Eller, Jarry, etc trade. Maybe that involves us taking something back. Hell. If you get Jake out a week ago you could use retention to get some assets.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Says the guy who had 300 posts in the trade forum talking about 20 different prospects in the last 48 hours.

I know you're just trying to rile up people here, honestly don't you ever get bored of being just another PensX wannabe? Or another way to put it, "a light beer PensX"?

I honestly don't care, do whatever you want, but it really seems like this team makes you angrier than any amount of joy it brings. Why continue to follow it if it makes you so bitter?

 

[Gurglesons]

Firing Sully will make the core closer to late 20s than late 30s? Will put cheap young talent in the minors?

Replacing a coach matters when you are wasting prime years of a talented roster.

Replacing a coach matters when you are wasting the development of a roster talented promising young players.

This seventh circle of hell of pretending to contend to continue to sell tickets while doing nothing toward the future?

Who cares who the coach is?

I don’t understand why people are so hard on the core. All of Malkin, Crosby, Letang and Karlsson are playing above value this year.

As it has been for the last few years the issues here are almost entirely on roster construction, management and coaching.

I’ll give Dubas some credit on acquiring a player type like Bunting as it is has been sorely needed since Hornqvist left. The issue is one again shedding value in a Guentzel trade to bring in that player.

I know you're just trying to rile up people here, honestly don't you ever get bored of being just another PensX wannabe? Or another way to put it, "a light beer PensX"?

I honestly don't care, do whatever you want, but it really seems like this team makes you angrier than any amount of joy it brings. Why continue to follow it if it makes you so bitter?

Just calling out the hypocrisy.

You were freaking out on Vancouver fans for days about how Guentzel would go nowhere if they didn’t pony up a prospect like Lekke, Othmann, etc.

Now “fans are complaining about prospects they learned about 20 minutes ago”.

You admittedly don’t even watch the Penguins anymore. So please cool it with the high and mighty route.

 

[Turin]

Firing Sully will make the core closer to late 20s than late 30s? Will put cheap young talent in the minors?

Replacing a coach matters when you are wasting prime years of a talented roster.

Replacing a coach matters when you are wasting the development of a roster talented promising young players.

This seventh circle of hell of pretending to contend to continue to sell tickets while doing nothing toward the future?

Who cares who the coach is?

I don’t agree with all of this necessarily, the Pens would probably have been jolted into the playoffs with a new coach.

BUT, their performance with the season on the line since the All-Star break was disgusting and indicative of a larger issue that isn’t as easy to fix. When Therrien was cooked, the Pens still pulled out big wins here and there on the backs of their core players. This team doesn’t have the players to offset a bad/stale coach even occasionally. As much as I hate Reirden, and I loathe him, he’s not causing them to give up a SHG every game. Should he be fired over it? Yes - but we’re also seeing what happens when two traditionally reckless superstars in Geno and Letang take a step back and stop being elite. Their old habits remain, their reaction time and speed does not. This isn’t a problem with their current cap hits but the rest of the roster being old and shitty is a problem.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don’t understand why people are so hard on the core. All of Malkin, Crosby, Letang and Karlsson are playing above value this year.

As it has been for the last few years the issues here are almost entirely on roster construction, management and coaching.

I’ll give Dubas some credit on acquiring a player type like Bunting as it is has been sorely needed since Hornqvist left. The issue is one again shedding value in a Guentzel trade to bring in that player.



Just calling out the hypocrisy.

You were freaking out on Vancouver fans for days about how Guentzel would go nowhere if they didn’t pony up a prospect like Lekke, Othmann, etc.

Now “fans are complaining about prospects they learned about 20 minutes ago”.

All of those players are producing to one degree or another. It's not enough. There is not enough cheap young talent to fill out the club and all the core is too old to take the beer league caliber players surrounding them on their backs and to win anyways. Crosby excepted who obviously sold his soul to Satan to never age.

I know you're just trying to rile up people here, honestly don't you ever get bored of being just another PensX wannabe? Or another way to put it, "a light beer PensX"?

I honestly don't care, do whatever you want, but it really seems like this team makes you angrier than any amount of joy it brings. Why continue to follow it if it makes you so bitter?

Stage two of grief.

 

[Gurglesons]

All of those players are producing to one degree or another. It's not enough. There os not enough cheap young talent to fill out the club and all the core is too old to take the beer league caliber surrounding them on their backs and to win anyways. Crosby excepted who obviously sold his soul to Satan to never age.

I don’t think you necessarily need cheap talent.

Boston hardly has any cheap talent. Vegas too.

You know what they have? Creative GMs who get high value out of their assets and above value out of their contracts.

How different does this team look if Dubas just nails the offseason instead of giving out contracts that at best were breaking even in Eller, Acciari, Graves, and Jarry?

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

I think the following players are unlikely to be back next year, one way or another:

• Reilly Smith. With Guentzel's retention off the books and Smith down to one year, it'll be easier to move him.
• Jeff Carter. Won't be re-signed.
• Lars Eller. Like Smith, he'll now be down to one year on his deal.
• Emil Bemstrom. Unless he breaks out in the final 20 games, I don't think he'll be qualified as an RFA.
• PO Joseph. I think they may swap his RFA rights for another RFA, perhaps a forward. Or they'll sign him to a simple deal but then trade him for another 23/24 year old in a similar situation.
• Jansen Harkins. I don't think he'll be back as a UFA

I think it's possible, though less certain, that Rickard Rakell and Ryan Graves are moved, as well. They would be marginal cap dumps, though Rakell might bring back something of value. Rakell, in particular, only has an 8-team NTC, which leaves a large portion of the league as potential partners in a trade.

So you dump all these players, and if you don't trade them for real playing assets, who do you replace them with? We don't have a lot of young depth to call up.

I agree that Carter, should go.
Harkins is dime a dozen, so yeah, just get someone else.

Bemstrom is 24, I would see if we can make him work. He should be good for 10g-20a which isn't bad for our bottom 6.

PO Joseph is also 24, and unless you plan on trading him for future assets, and then sign an older UFA, he should stay.

Smith should go, I agree, but I'm assuming we are going after Guentzel.

The problem with UFAs is they are all going to be 28+.
So all looking for last contracts.

That's the reality of the situation.

 

[Gurglesons]

So you dump all these players, and if you don't trade them for real playing assets, who do you replace them with? We don't have a lot of young depth to call up.

I agree that Carter, should go.
Harkins is dime a dozen, so yeah, just get someone else.

Bemstrom is 24, I would see if we can make him work. He should be good for 10g-20a which isn't bad for our bottom 6.

PO Joseph is also 24, and unless you plan on trading him for future assets, and then sign an older UFA, he should stay.

Smith should go, I agree, but I'm assuming we are going after Guentzel.

The problem with UFAs is they are all going to be 28+.
So all looking for last contracts.

That's the reality of the situation.

The Penguins are clearly going for it next year.

Dubas basically said he is going to attempt to utilize assets to get younger. You can do that if you pay along with moving players.

It’ll be interesting. I still think they can squeeze out some blood from this stone if they are creative.

I have 0 faith in Dubas based on his moves.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

I'll give Dooby Dooby Dubas a pass THIS year and ONLY this year, he inherited a shitbox scenario with very little cap space or anything from one senile old man whos brain turned into a cracker jack after becoming to enamored with combatting Tom Wilson then staying with what worked, picked fights in an elevator with the glorified Vince Russo of hockey writers, a former Flyers neanderthal too bust with fighting everything that breathed then stopping a puck who gave dumb dick contracts with full NMCs, had zero vision or anything resembling a plan and just threw shit on the wall, next year is when I'll start to judge what he does or doesnt.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

I don’t think you necessarily need cheap talent.

Boston hardly has any cheap talent. Vegas too.

You know what they have? Creative GMs who get high value out of their assets and above value out of their contracts.

How different does this team look if Dubas just nails the offseason instead of giving out contracts that at best were breaking even in Eller, Acciari, Graves, and Jarry?

Eller and Jarry have been fine. Acciari meh, but hasn't been horrible.

I really really really really really think they need to freshen the coaching staff. Fine...if Sully is going to stay forever (and we don't have a choice) get rid of everybody else around him!!

I said this before...
That Ruh deal seems like Dubas forcing Sully to not use a 33 year old, and play Ludvig instead.

 

[Gurglesons]

Eller and Jarry have been fine. Acciari meh, but hasn't been horrible.

I really really really really really think they need to freshen the coaching staff. Fine...if Sully is going to stay forever (and we don't have a choice) get rid of everybody else around him!!

I said this before...
That Ruh deal seems like Dubas forcing Sully to not use a 33 year old, and play Ludvig instead.

Jarry has been worse than last year.

Eller has been fine. And that’s exactly my point. He’s been a 2 million dollar player.

You had to bring in players that play above their value.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Jarry has been worse than last year.

Eller has been fine. And that’s exactly my point. He’s been a 2 million dollar player.

You had to bring in players that play above their value.

Our G has not been the problem this year. We have Crosby/Malkin/Letang around to play above their value. Even a few mishaps of Graves/Acciari shouldn't have been enough to sink us.

EKs has had positive impact, but not enough. Who do we blame? Sully!

We just need players that play at value, and a coach that defines a system around the players he has, not the players he wishes he had.

Sully about EK "we'll teach him how to play"...WTF!

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

The Penguins are clearly going for it next year.

Dubas basically said he is going to attempt to utilize assets to get younger. You can do that if you pay along with moving players.

It’ll be interesting. I still think they can squeeze out some blood from this stone if they are creative.

I have 0 faith in Dubas based on his moves.

Dubas...

Sullivan has way more to do with our failures. Although, Dubas gave him all his players this year and they are the same duds as the last two. If he does it again with that moron at the helm it's on him too.

They won't make the Playoffs next year either....

-Sullivans Defensive System is just awful. Even Eller said they have to stop giving up all the 2v1s/3v1s (that's probably 3-6 games min right there)
-Sullivans PP is absolute trash. (6+ games right here)
-Sullivans 2 Scoring and 2 Turtle lines is outdated and he wont change.

Team is DOA next year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just calling out the hypocrisy.

You were freaking out on Vancouver fans for days about how Guentzel would go nowhere if they didn’t pony up a prospect like Lekke, Othmann, etc.

Now “fans are complaining about prospects they learned about 20 minutes ago”.

You admittedly don’t even watch the Penguins anymore. So please cool it with the high and mighty route.

I'm not even going to bother addressing the accusations, but you're just proving my point. Do you even enjoy this team? Personally, it's very easy for me to realize that this team is toast because they hitched their wagon to a shitty coach and the core is too old to compensate for that. Being mad about this team implies I expect better, but nothing in the past few years suggests that's the case. You say "you don't even watch the Penguins anymore", because I have the ability to realize that they're not entertaining me anymore and I don't want to consume a product I don't find entertaining.

You obviously think Dubas sucks and expect Dubas to make bad moves, but when he does that, you go off the deep end. I don't expect the Pirates to be good, so when they go on a 16 game losing streak in a season, I'm not screaming "OH MY GOD THIS TEAM IS A DISGRACE!!!". It's like "yeah, bad teams do this every now and then, I'll tune back in when they right the ship".

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not even going to bother addressing the accusations, but you're just proving my point. Do you even enjoy this team? Personally, it's very easy for me to realize that this team is toast because they hitched their wagon to a shitty coach and the core is too old to compensate for that. Being mad about this team implies I expect better, but nothing in the past few years suggests that's the case. You say "you don't even watch the Penguins anymore", because I have the ability to realize that they're not entertaining me anymore and I don't want to consume a product I don't find entertaining.

You obviously think Dubas sucks and expect Dubas to make bad moves, but when he does that, you go off the deep end. I don't expect the Pirates to be good, so when they go on a 16 game losing streak in a season, I'm not screaming "OH MY GOD THIS TEAM IS A DISGRACE!!!". It's like "yeah, bad teams do this every now and then, I'll tune back in when they right the ship".

Like I said. You just argued for 300+ posts with Canucks fans about prospects you’ve never seen. Get off the high horse Empo.

We all are just losers talking about hockey on a message board.

 

[Ryder71]

Dubas has proven through his first 9 months he isn’t a very creative GM.

He’s taken the easy, uncreative route in multiple decisions he’s made. The media is giving him a lot of space because of how quickly he needed to come in and make changes. I’ll align with that view and say it’s understandable.

That being said, I don’t excuse market inequality for Dubas. He overplayed his hand on Guentzel and likely should’ve engaged and had a trade done over a week ago. Calgary and Montreal read the room there.

It likely gives him way more time to work through a Smith, Eller, Jarry, etc trade. Maybe that involves us taking something back. Hell. If you get Jake out a week ago you could use retention to get some assets.

He wasn't creative in moving dead weight in the EK deal? You have to be a contortionist to get that done.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dubas...

Sullivan has way more to do with our failures. Although, Dubas gave him all his players this year and they are the same duds as the last two. If he does it again with that moron at the helm it's on him too.

They won't make the Playoffs next year either....

-Sullivans Defensive System is just awful. Even Eller said they have to stop giving up all the 2v1s/3v1s (that's probably 3-6 games min right there)
-Sullivans PP is absolute trash. (6+ games right here)
-Sullivans 2 Scoring and 2 Turtle lines is outdated and he wont change.

Team is DOA next year.

You know I hate Sullivan.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Like I said. You just argued for 300+ posts with Canucks fans about prospects you’ve never seen. Get off the high horse Empo.

We all are just losers talking about hockey on a message board.

Are you trying to convince everyone else by posting this or are you trying to convince yourself?

 

[Ryder71]

The Penguins are clearly going for it next year.

Dubas basically said he is going to attempt to utilize assets to get younger. You can do that if you pay along with moving players.

It’ll be interesting. I still think they can squeeze out some blood from this stone if they are creative.

lol, The only thing they'll be squeezing out over the next couple of years is misery. You could add McDavid and they wouldn't win. How are you not seeing this?

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

You know I hate Sullivan.

Oh yeah man, I get it... remember when we said the two turtle lines wouldn't work either. All good.

We'll see if Dubas is a learning creature this summer because if he doesn't fire this coach first thing then we know he's an idiot. I have doubts.

This team is going to tank this year so leaving Sullivan to go down with the ship is the right call. Also, if I were Jarry, I'd get injured right about now....

 

[Gurglesons]

lol, The only thing they'll be squeezing out over the next couple of years is misery. You could add McDavid and they wouldn't win. How are you not seeing this?

Regardless of how I feel, this is the message from management, ownership, etc.

They are going to be a cap team next year and try to compete.

Despite disagreeing with Dubas a lot, I do not disagree with what he said about not betting against Sidney Crosby.

 

[Ryder71]

We all are just losers talking about hockey on a message board.

Not me, I'm fantastic!

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh yeah man, I get it... remember when we said the two turtle lines wouldn't work either. All good.

We'll see if Dubas is a learning creature this summer because if he doesn't fire this coach first thing then we know he's an idiot. I have doubts.

This team is going to tank this year so leaving Sullivan to go down with the ship is the right call. Also, if I were Jarry, I'd get injured right about now....

Would be nice to fire Sullivan.

 

[Ryder71]

Regardless of how I feel, this is the message from management, ownership, etc.

They are going to be a cap team next year and try to compete.

Of course they'll be a cap team, no argument whatsoever. But when your core is as old as their's is with no apparent supporting cast because our prospect pool was gutted or non existent, You'll largely be towards the bottom. that's what happens.

Would be nice to fire Sullivan.

And bring in who?

 

[Andy99]

Ok. Pens trivia night for everyone still scrolling thru this despair: other than Jansen Harkins, name the two other Pens players who have played 40+ games for the Pens without scoring a goal…and no Googling