Post-Game Talk: Pens 0, Caps 13

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If you follow the thread, my post was in response to someone saying not to read too much into one game. So, I didn't. I looked at essentially the last two months, since the 12/4 game. I even said this team is capable of being incredibly good and incredibly bad - nothing that it is inconsistent with what Trotz said.

"Did they not just lose their last 4 games by 17 goals?" - did I not note the four game losing skid in my post?

So, I don't know who you think you are trying to school or who you think you are trying to impress. I just know it isn't me.

You quoted me, so ya, you are the one I'm "schooling".

In my post you quoted, I specifically noted their four game losing streak and how they weren't playing sound hockey coming into that game agt the Pens.

So whatever point you are "trying" to make, you somehow chose to ignore the context of my original post.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

You can absolutely conclude that Perron is a good player on his own, and not just someone who looks good because of Crosby. Which is what I was responding to and agreeing with.

Fair enough. I thought the guy you responding to said that they don't have chemistry which is why I said it's too soon to tell. I absolutely agree that Perron is a fantastic player based on his own merits though.

 

[nothingbeatshockey]

You quoted me, so ya, you are the one I'm "schooling".

In my post you quoted, I specifically noted their four game losing streak and how they weren't playing sound hockey coming into that game agt the Pens.

So whatever point you are "trying" to make, you somehow chose to ignore the context of my original post.

Exactly - your original post asked for some perspective on the Caps. You offered up four games as a sample - I offered up the last two months. Which is the more appropriate sample size?

If you feel like you "schooled" me - good for you. I'm so glad making an inane comment and getting into a circular argument on a hockey board is all it takes to stroke your ego.

 

[Will Hunting]

For those people that are trying to find some hope.. it´s nice, folks, BUT those arguments:

It´s January, slump, injuries, bad stretch, still on pace for 105 pts, LA, NYR, MTL & CHI had mediocre regular seasons lately..

Well, those arguments are flawed. It´s not an overall Pens record that is troubling. Or their pace. Or injuries. Or a slump. This is none of that. IT´S HOW THEY ARE LOSING & TO WHOM THEY ARE LOSING. I bet that Chicago, LA, MTL had some hope in their regular seasons and there were at least some teams in their divisions that they were matching up well with. There´s no hope for the Pens now. Not in Metro and not in this PO format.

Pens don´t have an awful record, but it´s the context. I would be much rather seeing them losing the games to the West, dropping the occasional game to Toronto or Buffalo and then stepping up in a big divisional game. But it´s a complete opposite. When the game matters the most, the opposition comes prepared, plays his best and the Pens absolutely suck. We can expect this in the playoffs as well. Tell me why we shouldn´t be expecting this massacre by Metro teams in the playoffs, tell me why??

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Exactly - your original post asked for some perspective on the Caps. You offered up four games as a sample - I offered up the last two months. Which is the more appropriate sample size?

If you feel like you "schooled" me - good for you. I'm so glad making an inane comment and getting into a circular argument on a hockey board is all it takes to stroke your ego.

You brought up the "schooling" part not me. You are also the one that was given a direct quote by the coach of the Caps, and still can't grasp my point. So naturally, get hostile and act indignant. Same old story always happens when people are wrong, not surprisingly.

The fact still remains that the Caps came into that game in a slump and were playing poor systematic hockey, which their coach called them out for Tuesday.

Anyone who tries to act like the Caps came into that game playing well, is full of ****, to be frank.

 

[Til the End of Time]

incompetence is one thing and can at times but understandable.

but incompetence accompanied by arrogance and routine electing for croneyism over merit, thats a rather revolting blend.

also wasting the two generational players you were gifted (and among the few likable players) really seals the deal for me... i just wonder why people continue to root for this team in its current incarnation.

 

[Winger for Hire]

incompetence is one thing and can at times but understandable.

but incompetence accompanied by arrogance and routine electing for croneyism over merit, thats a rather revolting blend.

also wasting the two generational players you were gifted (and among the few likable players) really seals the deal for me... i just wonder why people continue to root for this team in its current incarnation.

Yes, please tell us why you still do.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

incompetence is one thing and can at times but understandable.

but incompetence accompanied by arrogance and routine electing for croneyism over merit, thats a rather revolting blend.

also wasting the two generational players you were gifted (and among the few likable players) really seals the deal for me... i just wonder why people continue to root for this team in its current incarnation.

Please explain how 87 and 71 were "gifted" to the Penguins.

 

[Til the End of Time]

Yes, please tell us why you still do.

honestly not sure. i dont really root for the penguins, thought i still watch/follow them. probably not healthy i recognize, so hopefully i will stop spending my time doing so soon.

 

[Will Hunting]

honestly not sure. i dont really root for the penguins, thought i still watch/follow them. probably not healthy i recognize, so hopefully i will stop spending my time doing so soon.

Finally admitted.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

I knew this game was over before it even started when I saw Kunitz up on line 1 with Sid instead of stacking that first line Perron - Sid - Horny.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Well in my scenario, Adams isn't playing. Rust, Lapierre, Nolan/Bernier.

Rust playing assumed mgmt finally figured out Adams was part of the problem with the fourth line.

I can't just make that jump into that LSD induced fantasy land yet.

 

[chethejet]

It is simple. No one thinks the Pens are a power house anymore. They know the holes that they have and the fact Crosby and Malkin simply can't carry this team anymore. Kunitz has to get off the first line ASAP. He is killing that line. Unfortunately JR has limited assets and financial flexibility to make any major moves. Unless some teams can be hoodwinked into Kunitz, Scuderi and find a nice trade partner for Martin, I think JR will just stay the course and give the team the chance to improve as the health improves. He is trying to upgrade the team with respect to grit, but the options are limited.

 

[Will Hunting]

I knew this game was over before it even started when I saw Kunitz up on line 1 with Sid instead of stacking that first line Perron - Sid - Horny.

Yeah, it was like 1-0 Caps already. Thank you MJ. I was watching the game and I couldn´t help but think about the difference between Trotz & Johnston. WOOW, what a huge huge difference.

 

[nothingbeatshockey]

You brought up the "schooling" part not me. You are also the one that was given a direct quote by the coach of the Caps, and still can't grasp my point. So naturally, get hostile and act indignant. Same old story always happens when people are wrong, not surprisingly.

The fact still remains that the Caps came into that game in a slump and were playing poor systematic hockey, which their coach called them out for Tuesday.

Anyone who tries to act like the Caps came into that game playing well, is full of ****, to be frank.

You're the ****** who had to post: "I've bolded the most important parts for your convenience."
But I'm the one who was angry and indignant?

And nothing I posted contradicted what Trotz said. You're the one who told people not to get too excited about the Caps play and based that on the last 5 games, while I tried to broaden the picture to the last two months.

Anyone who tries to act like the Caps came into that game playing well, is full of ****, to be frank
I never said the Caps were playing well coming into that game. Just tried to provide a more complete picture than your snarky little comment did.

 

[MtlPenFan]

He just needs to get it on net quickly. I never had a booming shot, but I was a fwd that played point and I learned that finding lanes and getting it quickly on net is much more effective than having a hard shot. I had a fast release and would just snap it on goal and good things generally happened.



You act as if BB doesn't put up points. Let's remove that fallacy right off the bat. He has put up 29 points in 66 games. If he put up almost 40 points playing in his first full season, people would rightfully be ecstatic. He isn't Taylor Hall or some elite winger. He's a max 50-55 point guy.

He has done that with mostly third and fourth line ice time and sparingly little PP time. He has also accumulated those points while coming back from multiple injuries, which have wrecked any momentum and consistency he has built up.

BB has played in 66 games, and you are comparing him to seasoned vets like Comeau and Downie who have combined for well over 700 games played in this league. They also aren't scrubs, as Downie and Comeau were first and second round picks respectively. They have combined for almost 400 points, so they aren't exactly these untalented coal miners you are trying to portray them as.

As far as BB with Malkin, you are seeing what you want to see, period. Pretty much the entire board would agree they have shown good chemistry. And Malkin shanked a gimme goal in the slot, while Spaling missed two easy tap ins, all directly created by BB in their whopping few games together. Go back and watch if you claim these chances are imaginary. I already pointed those misses out the last time we had a similar conversation.

If you expect BB to be a point per game guy, your expectations are whacked as hell.

An often injured "rookie" who puts up points at a half per game clip while being jerked around on the bottom six and flipped to his opposite wing where he's CLEARLY uncomfortable is actually fantastic production considering how he's been used.

The kid's a good player who's going to go through some growing pains as he gets used to playing every second or third night.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You're the ****** who had to post: "I've bolded the most important parts for your convenience."
But I'm the one who was angry and indignant?

I'll be honest, it does amuse me that my comment set you off so much. I've literally posted that exact same comment dozens of times when posting quotes and you are I believe the first one to get so bent over it.

And nothing I posted contradicted what Trotz said. You're the one who told people not to get too excited about the Caps play and based that on the last 5 games, while I tried to broaden the picture to the last two months.

Really? I said that did I? Care to quote exactly where?

See I thought I said, "let's keep things in perspective about the Caps", which was precluded by me explaining how they came into the game playing poorly over the last four games.

However, why let a little thing like context stop you from riding in on your white horse to defend the Caps honor

Anyone who tries to act like the Caps came into that game playing well, is full of ****, to be frank
I never said the Caps were playing well coming into that game. Just tried to provide a more complete picture than your snarky little comment did.

Ya, it was quite "snarky" of me to point out the truth and back it up with a quote by Trotz. Quite snarky.

Hopefully Trotz stops being so snarky with the Caps to and pointing out how they haven't been playing sound hockey lately.

An often injured "rookie" who puts up points at a half per game clip while being jerked around on the bottom six and flipped to his opposite wing where he's CLEARLY uncomfortable is actually fantastic production considering how he's been used.

The kid's a good player who's going to go through some growing pains as he gets used to playing every second or third night.

And I've called him out for playing like ass the last few games. But to pretend he isn't producing or making plays with Malkin is odd. Really odd, actually.

He's played in 66 damn games, and that has been broken into what, 3-4 segments?

 

[PGHSports]

Injuries are not the deciding factor in Sill remaining in the lineup. The coach is.

You really think the reason we lost last night was because of Sill? He was the least reason, in fact I wish our captain would should at least half the fire last night Sill showed.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You really think the reason we lost last night was because of Sill? He was the least reason, in fact I wish our captain would should at least half the fire last night Sill showed.

No. And I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Sill had a good game last night in a blowout loss. He was the furthest thing from even a tertiary reason why the team lost but neither does one good game in 20+ awful ones make him an NHLer worth dressing as much as MJ does. That's all I mean.

People were speculating that Sill is only seeing ice because of injuries. I disagree.

 

[billybudd]

He just needs to get it on net quickly. I never had a booming shot, but I was a fwd that played point and I learned that finding lanes and getting it quickly on net is much more effective than having a hard shot. I had a fast release and would just snap it on goal and good things generally happened.



You act as if BB doesn't put up points. Let's remove that fallacy right off the bat. He has put up 29 points in 66 games. If he put up almost 40 points playing in his first full season, people would rightfully be ecstatic. He isn't Taylor Hall or some elite winger. He's a max 50-55 point guy.

He has done that with mostly third and fourth line ice time and sparingly little PP time. He has also accumulated those points while coming back from multiple injuries, which have wrecked any momentum and consistency he has built up.

BB has played in 66 games, and you are comparing him to seasoned vets like Comeau and Downie who have combined for well over 700 games played in this league. They also aren't scrubs, as Downie and Comeau were first and second round picks respectively. They have combined for almost 400 points, so they aren't exactly these untalented coal miners you are trying to portray them as.

As far as BB with Malkin, you are seeing what you want to see, period. Pretty much the entire board would agree they have shown good chemistry. And Malkin shanked a gimme goal in the slot, while Spaling missed two easy tap ins, all directly created by BB in their whopping few games together. Go back and watch if you claim these chances are imaginary. I already pointed those misses out the last time we had a similar conversation.

If you expect BB to be a point per game guy, your expectations are whacked as hell.

My expectations are that if a guy is slow, soft, weak and garbage defensively, he better score enough to make up for that. Getting outscored by Downie and matched by Spaling--and outscored by four others--does not even come close to cutting it.

2 years later, I think it's time to stop putting so much emphasis on the value of second assists on a Brenden Morrow hot streak, in which the old man was shooting at ~30% and deflecting pucks in from the top of the circles--not exactly a reliable or repeatable way to score goals.

The plays you reference, Malkin and Spaling were outnumbered in traffic. Calling those tap-ins is "seeing what you want to see." They were outnumbered in traffic because their linemate doesn't go there and is ineffective when he does. It's easy to outnumber the opposition when one guy doesn't make it necessary to pick him up.

Bennett's numbers aren't there and haven't been since Brenden Morrow randomly caught fire. His numbers are especially not there when he's above the third line. Unless he has enough chemistry with Sutter that both their games get fixed, which is what it looked like might happen in the preseason, I see no reason to believe this will change.

I don't know if you've looked at the scoring figures in the last few seasons, but there aren't a lot of slow-ish, weak, perimeter players with poor releases putting up 50 point seasons. Certainly not enough to justify declaring the seventh-best wing under contract to us "untouchable."

 

[Fordy]

My expectations are that if a guy is slow, soft, weak and garbage defensively, he better score enough to make up for that. Getting outscored by Downie and matched by Spaling--and outscored by four others--does not even come close to cutting it.

2 years later, I think it's time to stop putting so much emphasis on the value of second assists on a Brenden Morrow hot streak, in which the old man was shooting at ~30% and deflecting pucks in from the top of the circles--not exactly a reliable or repeatable way to score goals.

The plays you reference, Malkin and Spaling were outnumbered in traffic. Calling those tap-ins is "seeing what you want to see." They were outnumbered in traffic because their linemate doesn't go there and is ineffective when he does. It's easy to outnumber the opposition when one guy doesn't make it necessary to pick him up.

Bennett's numbers aren't there and haven't been since Brenden Morrow randomly caught fire. His numbers are especially not there when he's above the third line. Unless he has enough chemistry with Sutter that both their games get fixed, which is what it looked like might happen in the preseason, I see no reason to believe this will change.

I don't know if you've looked at the scoring figures in the last few seasons, but there aren't a lot of slow-ish, weak, perimeter players with poor releases putting up 50 point seasons. Certainly not enough to justify declaring the seventh-best wing under contract to us "untouchable."

none of those things are true

 

[Oxidized Guacamole]

How was Latta not thrown out for not having his jersey tied down?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

For some reason, that reminds me... whatever happened to the idiotic jersey-tuck rule?

Not that I'm complaining.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

My expectations are that if a guy is slow, soft, weak and garbage defensively, he better score enough to make up for that. Getting outscored by Downie and matched by Spaling does not even come close to cutting it.

So you are just resorting to making things up bb? I love rapping with you about hockey, but this is the first time you have been so off in bizarro world that I'm actually laughing reading your posts.

2 years later, I think it's time to stop putting so much emphasis on the value of second assists on a Brenden Morrow hot streak, in which the old man was shooting at ~30% and deflecting pucks in from the top of the circles--not exactly a reliable or repeatable way to score goals.

66 games. Not even a full season.

Morrow hasn't been with the team for two years now and BB has put up 8 in 19 this year. To act like he isn't producing any points is bizarre.

The plays you reference, Malkin and Spaling were outnumbered in traffic. Calling those tap-ins is "seeing what you want to see." They were outnumbered in traffic because their linemate doesn't go there and is ineffective when he does. It's easy to outnumber the opposition when one guy doesn't make it necessary to pick him up.

Spaling had a step on his man both times and pushed one wide, and the other time didn't raise the puck. Malkin was all alone in the slot and shanked it. Go watch. How exactly is that BB fault? In all three cases he made three beautiful plays.

If BB doesn't go to the net, how did he score that goal Malkin fed him agt Boston? Who was the guy in front when Malkin tied it, screening on the shot agt Montreal? Sure looked like BB. Who was that guy in front of the net on Spaling's goal the other night on the feed from Perron? BB stick was literally right there and Steigy thought he scored. Who was the guy who went flying into the net in the same game? All BB.

You are clearly watching some other player or choosing to ignore what's happening on the ice.

Bennett's numbers aren't there and haven't been since Brenden Morrow randomly caught fire. Unless he has enough chemistry with Sutter that both their games get fixed, which is what it looked like might happen in the preseason, I see no reason to believe this will change.

I don't know if you've looked at the scoring figures in the last few seasons, but there aren't a lot of slow-ish, weak, perimeter players with poor releases putting up 50 point seasons. Certainly not enough to justify declaring the seventh-best wing under contract to us "untouchable."

All I can say is BB wears #19. Try watching him some time.

And once again I never called him a core player, so relax on the silliness. I said his value is low relative to his worth. It's common sense bb.

 

[BobCole]

none of those things are true

Agreed. It really amazes me how people's biases cloud their judgement. I have no dog in this fight. Any objective hockey fan with two eyes can tell you that Bennett is basically none of the things billybudd describes him as. As for what he actually is, he's an offensively gifted playmaking winger with top 6 upside. Any scout would classify him as such.