Post-Game Talk: Pens 0, Caps 13

[Pens1566]

This is the HF cycle of life-- people over rate a player (because it's the internet and people are people), and then in reaction other people make it their life goal to tear said player down because without that karmic balance, we might actually veer into actual discussions.

Everyone gets their panties in a knot, hilarity ensues.

Ironically, knotted panties are underrated.

 

[HandshakeLine]

ironically, knotted panties are underrated.

you know nothing about hocket homer! See my advanced stats!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

BB played with Malkin and Spaling for 5 games before Malkin went down. He put up two goals and had a number of beautiful feeds to his line mates (he can't finish for them) But let's ask his linemate what he saw...

“Obviously, Beau’s creating a lot of plays, a lot off offensive chances. He’s a really smart player. He’s got high-end vision of the game and makes some pretty incredible passes out there.”

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...now-healthy-Beau-Bennett/stories/201501160101

That's only a guy on the ice with him saying that, but obviously I guess most of us are seeing what we want to see like Spaling.

BB line mates weren't finishing, but he still was potting goals even though he isn't a goal scorer. For a guy who has the skill to be about a 50 point player, I'm not sure what else people want from a guy on that line.

 

[Goalie Ledoux]

Pens getting shut out back to back by the Capitals,so,so sad. Orpik must be loving it.

 

[Goalie Ledoux]

This is the HF cycle of life-- people over rate a player (because it's the internet and people are people), and then in reaction other people make it their life goal to tear said player down because without that karmic balance, we might actually veer into actual discussions.

Everyone gets their panties in a knot, hilarity ensues.

I thought a part of the cycle was

 

[blueliner18]

Because if there's anything that's reliable, it's the Pittsburgh media

The media is not my source Waffle. I'm just saying there are some who speak the truth and are correct in this situation. Example: Rossi is an effing joke, Yohe reports some truths, Madden is so bluntly arrogant everyone hates him whether he reports the truth or not, Stan well he's getting old enough where he has no reason to lie or no worries about speaking the truth, and DK is kind of a hodge podge of all them. When Madden, Yohe, and Stan all report the same damn thing it is no longer coincidence or speculation I would say. In which all of them say Sid has last say on who he plays with, and where he plays on the PP. Is that right or wrong? I'd say with his play being awful (by Sidney Crosby standards) since mid-November it has become very wrong. Players don't always know what's best even if they are Sidney Crosby.

 

[Waffle Fries]

That is why I asked, how do you know where I get information from to accuse me of speculating? Like I said buddy, you definitely know more than I do. You win. You don't have to be connected in that locker room to know that Sid has last say on where he plays and who he plays with... read the papers and listen to reporters.

The media is not my source Waffle. I'm just saying there are some who speak the truth and are correct in this situation. Example: Rossi is an effing joke, Yohe reports some truths, Madden is so bluntly arrogant everyone hates him whether he reports the truth or not, Stan well he's getting old enough where he has no reason to lie or no worries about speaking the truth, and DK is kind of a hodge podge of all them. When Madden, Yohe, and Stan all report the same damn thing it is no longer coincidence or speculation I would say. In which all of them say Sid has last say on who he plays with, and where he plays on the PP. Is that right or wrong? I'd say with his play being awful (by Sidney Crosby standards) since mid-November it has become very wrong. Players don't always know what's best even if they are Sidney Crosby.

Okay?

When someone starts randomly posting on a message board that they have some inside source with inside info, but don't provide any evidence to support it, it's ******** 99% of the time.

 

[ColePens]

you know nothing about hocket homer! See my advanced stats!

<bro fist bump>

The all-seeing eye will tell you everything you need to know. People have fallen in love with advanced stats. It's good to add advanced stats as a small part of the conversation, but not the entire argument.

I will fight this battle til my dying day.

 

[IcedCapp]

<bro fist bump>

The all-seeing eye will tell you everything you need to know. People have fallen in love with advanced stats. It's good to add advanced stats as a small part of the conversation, but not the entire argument.

I will fight this battle til my dying day.

No one's eyes are perfect.

No one's stats are perfect.

There are some people on this board whom I really respect. When they talk hockey, you know they understand it. But those same people are prone to bias. We all are, we're humans. And in this case, we're all fans. Those biases have a way of trickling into people's "eye tests" and tinting them.

In this thread alone, there have been some very smart people saying some things that make me shake my head. Those people didn't stop knowing hockey. Their eye tests didn't get worse. They just have a bias that affects them.

Stats also have issues. Maybe not bias-related issues, but big issues. Stats, like basic Corsi, struggle to provide context for the numbers they are giving you. Sure, we get QoC and QoTeammates, but someone like Chris Kunitz is a +Corsi player. That doesn't mesh with the eye test. Why?

Well, when you play with Sidney Crosby and you play with Kris Letang or Simon Despres (I believe these are the two most-common pairs for the Sid line), you're going to have higher possession than if you were playing with Sill and Adams. So is it Kunitz who is driving possession, or are other people driving Kunitz's possession?

No one should ever outright dismiss the eye test.

No one should ever outright dismiss advanced stats.

The best way to approach the situation is to find a way to marry the two. People who belittle stat users are wrong. People who belittle eye testers are wrong. It's worse when people approach the situation belligerently. The 'nerds' will get defensive and lash out. The old school dinosaurs will be protective and attack. By the end of it, no one is communicating. Yay, internet.

 

[ColePens]

I outright dismissed your post for not having enough ColePens appreciation. But meh.. it was a good post, indeed.

 

[IcedCapp]

I outright dismissed your post for not having enough ColePens appreciation. But meh.. it was a good post, indeed.

I've told you many times I appreciate your knowledge of the game. We don't always see eye-to-eye on things (mostly Crosby), but that doesn't lessen my respect for your hockey knowledge.

 

[ColePens]

Our Despres love had brought us very close to one another.

 

[IcedCapp]

Our Despres love had brought us very close to one another.

we're just lucky there's so much of him to go around

 

[blueliner18]

Watch for Despres to get even better in the coming years. Once he gains full confidence (since this coaching staff actually shows confidence in him) he will be a force. Honestly I see him becoming our Brent Seabrook in a few years.

 

[blueliner18]

Now back to hockey talk. Not set to panic just yet, but what are the Pens going to do? It will be very interesting to see how they play tonight after the DC meltdown. I would be absolutely shocked if Kunitz is back on Sid's line. I'm not sure what's wrong with Kuny, but he hasn't even been a fraction of the player he once was since the Olympic break last year. I think JR really has to shake it up if this club wants to make a deep run this year. We really need a Brian Boyle or Matt Martin. Downie and Lapierre may run a muck as agitators, but they are not players who are physically difficult to play against.

 

[Shockmaster]

Now back to hockey talk. Not set to panic just yet, but what are the Pens going to do? It will be very interesting to see how they play tonight after the DC meltdown. I would be absolutely shocked if Kunitz is back on Sid's line. I'm not sure what's wrong with Kuny, but he hasn't even been a fraction of the player he once was since the Olympic break last year. I think JR really has to shake it up if this club wants to make a deep run this year. We really need a Brian Boyle or Matt Martin. Downie and Lapierre may run a muck as agitators, but they are not players who are physically difficult to play against.

If Wade Barrett were here, he'd have bad news for you...

 

[blueliner18]

If Wade Barrett were here, he'd have bad news for you...

Gawd...please no. I was upset it took Johnston until the 10 minute mark of the 3rd in DC to yank Kunitz off that line, move Perron to the LW, and put Horny on RW.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

That is why I asked, how do you know where I get information from to accuse me of speculating? Like I said buddy, you definitely know more than I do. You win. You don't have to be connected in that locker room to know that Sid has last say on where he plays and who he plays with... read the papers and listen to reporters.

I accused you of speculating because I was taught in school to think critically and to understand what makes a good argument. You starting saying things and expecting others to take that information seriously. If you have a source for that information you should provide it, then others can consider the reliability of your source and they can decide if you are making valid points based on that. It was nothing personal for me to call you out on that and it certainly has nothing to do with me trying to look like a know it all.

I'm sorry you got bent out of shape about the whole thing but I and many others here know that you can't blindly believe everything you read, especially on a message board. If I start providing information that is not common knowledge and do not back up my facts I would expect to be criticized for it because I would deserve it. In the future, if you have a source, provide it. It will make things easier for everybody because we will know you are not just wildly speculating and you will be able to discuss your post with others because they won't be as skeptical of you content.

 

[blueliner18]

I accused you of speculating because I was taught in school to think critically and to understand what makes a good argument. You starting saying things and expecting others to take that information seriously. If you have a source for that information you should provide it, then others can consider the reliability of your source and they can decide if you are making valid points based on that. It was nothing personal for me to call you out on that and it certainly has nothing to do with me trying to look like a know it all.

I'm sorry you got bent out of shape about the whole thing but I and many others here know that you can't blindly believe everything you read, especially on a message board. If I start providing information that is not common knowledge and do not back up my facts I would expect to be criticized for it because I would deserve it. In the future, if you have a source, provide it. It will make things easier for everybody because we will know you are not just wildly speculating and you will be able to discuss your post with others because they won't be as skeptical of you content.

I guess the reason I got so bent is that is not how I view posts in any of these boards. I do not come here for people to provide me with factual evidence and statistics. I come here because I love the game and the team, and I just want to see what people are throwing around. Whether their statements are based on skepticism or not really does not bother me. If you think that everything that is posted here should be a certified fact I'm afraid I'd have some disappointing news. Anyway, my apologies as well for taking you so literally, but I guess you caught me at a bad time.

 

[blueliner18]

Plus it is really really difficult to know who is speculating or not on an online chat board. Like I said I could tell you I'm Mario's neighbor and I walked over and talked to him while he was shoveling his driveway yesterday. He is the one who told me Sid was being a pain in the a$$. ...and even though I sited my source you'd still think I was full of $h1t!! LOL

 

[Winger for Hire]

Plus it is really really difficult to know who is speculating or not on an online chat board. Like I said I could tell you I'm Mario's neighbor and I walked over and talked to him while he was shoveling his driveway yesterday. He is the one who told me Sid was being a pain in the a$$. ...and even though I sited my source you'd still think I was full of $h1t!! LOL

That gave you away straight off.

 

[blueliner18]

That gave you away straight off.

I honestly had someone tell me that years ago. When I was a hockey director at a rink in NC. The janitor we hired was from Sewickley (originally) said he lived down the road from Mario and every once in awhile he and his wife would be walking and see Mario out doing yard work. I believe he said he was weed eating the driveway... of course I kind of shook my head in agreement, went to my office, closed the door, and said man that guys full of stuff!!! LOL

 

[blueliner18]

It was such a good story I still remember the janitors name... Marshall

 

[billybudd]

So you are just resorting to making things up bb? I love rapping with you about hockey, but this is the first time you have been so off in bizarro world that I'm actually laughing reading your posts.



66 games. Not even a full season.

Morrow hasn't been with the team for two years now and BB has put up 8 in 19 this year. To act like he isn't producing any points is bizarre.



Spaling had a step on his man both times and pushed one wide, and the other time didn't raise the puck. Malkin was all alone in the slot and shanked it. Go watch. How exactly is that BB fault? In all three cases he made three beautiful plays.

If BB doesn't go to the net, how did he score that goal Malkin fed him agt Boston? Who was the guy in front when Malkin tied it, screening on the shot agt Montreal? Sure looked like BB. Who was that guy in front of the net on Spaling's goal the other night on the feed from Perron? BB stick was literally right there and Steigy thought he scored. Who was the guy who went flying into the net in the same game? All BB.

You are clearly watching some other player or choosing to ignore what's happening on the ice.



All I can say is BB wears #19. Try watching him some time.

And once again I never called him a core player, so relax on the silliness. I said his value is low relative to his worth. It's common sense bb.

If I'm seeing stuff that isn't there, why is Bennett a healthy scratch?

 

[Darth Vitale]

This thread, its time has past. Let us move forward to new vistas and horizons... new and inventive ways to be disgruntled Penguins fans.