Confirmed with Link: Penguins trade Derrick Pouliot to Canucks for Andrey Pedan, 4th rd. pick

[Peat]

canucks fan coming in peace. not having watched pouliot in years i have no sense of what we got but plenty of signs we got nothing. is there any hope for this guy? what are his major weaknesses? does he show anything?

fwiw, my take is that pedan is a game tough gritty ahler/ borderline nhler on a good day but with consistency, skill and toolbox issues. i thought he had an ok camp, but i wouldn't want him as a third pairing guy right now and i think that is his ceiling. i think he is gone partly because he wore his welcome out last season with travis green as he was getting healthy scratched late in the season with utica when he should have been a top pair guy.

His major weakness right now is confidence. I don't know what his upside is any more, but first and foremost Vancouver need to get him comfortable and not losing the run of himself when he makes mistakes.

Tbh, I had next to no hope for him in Pittsburgh - my only hope for him was that Rutherford seems to be keeping faith in him beyond "I need to sell this player" and I hoped he was right. But that wasn't the player, that was player and environment. I don't think Sullivan was a fan of his as a player. Outside the environment, if he can get his confidence back, there's a defensively capable dman who moves the puck well there.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Maybe he will be the new Lovejoy: do well in Vancouver only to be traded back to us in a trade that seems really awful, only to become a good piece in a Stanley Cup winner

Lovejoy was 20x the defenseman that Pouliot is now at the time he left us the first time.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Too bad this migration happened, remember when people on here actually tried to argue Pouliot > Schultz?

You mean right at the time when Schultz was a dumpster fire in Edmonton? Opinions can change in 2+ years without them being wrong at the time.

 

[Bumpus]

I saw Craig Hillier in Wheeling once. He got freaking shredded. Totally overwhelmed by the skill level of players in the E.

As an aside, this reminds me that the Nailers used to have a phenomenal weekend package. It was something like 2 tickets, 2 hot dogs, 4 beers and a hotel room (2 nights) for like $60. Think it was a cross-promotion with the racetrack, maybe.

My favorite is always Dollar Beer Nite!

 

[Speaking Moistly]

You mean right at the time when Schultz was a dumpster fire in Edmonton? Opinions can change in 2+ years without them being wrong at the time.

I think it was happening up until the 2016-17 preseason or a little after the season started. It died a swift death. It's also using hindsight because there was a good chance Schultz was ruined by his time in Edmonton and Pouliot wasn't coming off a low point. Jultz had a ridiculous turnaround.

 

[T1K]

You mean right at the time when Schultz was a dumpster fire in Edmonton? Opinions can change in 2+ years without them being wrong at the time.

No I mean the entire offseason after we acquired him, after he had already played well for us. Then even during that season early on I recall people arguing that Pouliot was better than Schultz. Doesn't matter tho, my comment was really just supposed to be a snaky good riddance post.

 

[WayneSid9987]

At least he wasn't waived. Because he was most likely going to be waived.

Yep, he's someone elses problem now ie. taking up a roster spot or you waive and probably lose him for nothing.

I wish Pooh Bear the best tho.
He was a good AHL'er here but only had a few NHL games where he looked decent.

Bottom line is, as we can see now, Pooh's value wasn't that great. JR would rather get something for him now than possibly waive him or Archibald and lose either for nothing.

 

[WayneSid9987]

So we basically got back a 4th rounder to replace the one we lost in the Streit trade. Pouliot got beaten out of a job by Chad ****ing Ruhwedel twice in six months. Tells you all you need to know about his alleged value.

Pouliot was like 10th-11th on my depth chart:

Tang
Dumo
Schultz
Cole
Maatta
Hunwick
Ruh
Trotman
Bengtsson
Corrado(although he didn't get any pre-season games. he's a more competent defender at the NHL level at this point)

Could argue Summers/Tinordi and maybe Czuchman had better camps as well.

 

[WayneSid9987]

So who's next in line for a call up? Bengtsson? Corrado?

Quite a few down there atm. From those 2 to Pedan, Tinordi, Summers who looked decent in the pre-season. I'd put those 5 as potential callups first. Czuchman had a stinky game vs STL but was ok in the other games he played.

ETA: Forgot about Trotman as well. So that makes 6.

 

[Pens x]

Good for Rutherford to find a team willing to take Pouliot and acquiring something for it. Plus, this likely means no Riley Sheahan, which is fantastic.

The last thing this team is another crappy bottom line center.

Win

Yet another Shero mistake

 

[cygnus47]

The shame is that he wasn't traded 18 months ago when he still had some value and maybe some confidence. If they weren't going to play him, they should have moved him instead of screwing around with his development.

 

[Pens x]

The shame is that he wasn't traded 18 months ago when he still had some value and maybe some confidence. If they weren't going to play him, they should have moved him instead of screwing around with his development.

At some point you have to help yourself. He never really forced management's hand over the last several seasons. This isn't your Ray Shero/Dan Bylsma team where they don't favors young guys.

I wish Poo the best though. Hopefully a change of scenery helps him.

 

[cygnus47]

At some point you have to help yourself. He never really forced management's hand over the last several seasons. This isn't your Ray Shero/Dan Bylsma team where they don't favors young guys.

I wish Poo the best though. Hopefully a change of scenery helps him.

He is 100% responsible for the 15-16 season (crap camp, average showing in a 16 game stint), but he didn't get a chance to play last season. He needs a chance to work through his issues at the NHL level, playing 3 or 5 or 7 games was never going to do that. The Penguins should have traded him last off season if they weren't committed to giving him 20+ games and give him every chance to succeed.

 

[Pens x]

He is 100% responsible for the 15-16 season (crap camp, average showing in a 16 game stint), but he didn't get a chance to play last season. He needs a chance to work through his issues at the NHL level, playing 3 or 5 or 7 games was never going to do that. The Penguins should have traded him last off season if they weren't committed to giving him 20+ games and give him every chance to succeed.

That is kind of easy to say now. Maybe no teams had any interest in him. The Pens don't really owe him anything. This isn't the minors league, you don't give a guy 20+ games to figure out the basics. Do that in the minor league.

No one would have cared about this guy if Shero hadn't drafted him at 8th overall.

 

[brewski420]

I really enjoyed watching Pooh when the Winterhawks came to play the T'Birds. I thought the pick was a good one. I hope he can find it but I don't think he will.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

He is 100% responsible for the 15-16 season (crap camp, average showing in a 16 game stint), but he didn't get a chance to play last season. He needs a chance to work through his issues at the NHL level, playing 3 or 5 or 7 games was never going to do that. The Penguins should have traded him last off season if they weren't committed to giving him 20+ games and give him every chance to succeed.

When he got his chance last season he was atrocious after another preseason where he didn't force their hand, but I agree that he should have been traded earlier simply for the return.

He got jumped by AHL players in what should have been a prime season to secure a regular spot.

Pouliot's GP: 11, 0PO
Corrado: 2
Warsofsky: 7
Oleksy: 11
Gaunce: 12
Hainey: 16, 25/25PO
Streit: 19, 3/25PO
Ruhwedel: 34, 6/25PO

Cole: 81, 25/25PO
Schultz: 78, 21/25PO
Dumoulin: 70, 25/25PO
Daley: 56, 21/25PO
Maatta: 55, 25/25PO
Letang: 41, 0/25PO

The top 6 they started with missed 111 games in the regular season ffs. If he wasn't so bad to the point it looked like playing him was hurting whatever confidence he had he would have easily gotten 20+ games.

 

[Peat]

That is kind of easy to say now. Maybe no teams had any interest in him. The Pens don't really owe him anything. This isn't the minors league, you don't give a guy 20+ games to figure out the basics. Do that in the minor league.

No one would have cared about this guy if Shero hadn't drafted him at 8th overall.

Please. We just moved him for a 4th after an astoundingly crap season. Of course other teams had interest in him back before that season ever happened. This is 99% certain.

And plenty of people were saying "We should either trade him or give him a guaranteed run of games" back last summer. That's because last summer it was pretty obvious that, unless he definitely nailed himself down as an NHLer, that was the last chance to trade him for good value. So - either do everything to make it happen, or trade him. That's not a hindsight position at all.

 

[Ogrezilla]

But he was bad enough to legitimately lose us games when we did play him last year. I honestly cannot remember watching anyone play worse NHL hockey than pouliot did last year. I wish we'd have traded him, but giving him guaranteed games would have been an awful decision. The fact that he got any games at all beyond his first one last year goes to show how much we wanted to salvage something from that pick.

 

[Ugene Magic]

He was never going to shine because he would never get the minutes where he needs them to suit his game. He was blocked by multiple players. He needs to go where he can get those minutes. That's not here.

I would have liked had they not went off the board like everyone else.

Best of luck Pooh.

 

[cygnus47]

When he got his chance last season he was atrocious after another preseason where he didn't force their hand, but I agree that he should have been traded earlier simply for the return.

He got jumped by AHL players in what should have been a prime season to secure a regular spot.

The top 6 they started with missed 111 games in the regular season ffs. If he wasn't so bad to the point it looked like playing him was hurting whatever confidence he had he would have easily gotten 20+ games.

'Getting jumped' is subjective. The fact that guys played before him just means that is what management decided to do, it doesn't tell you why they did it. They don't just recall the one they tout the most. If the team recalls Sestito first, that doesn't mean they think he's a better player than ZAR or Sprong.

People also have to remember that many prospects don't force your hand. Dumoulin was 23 like Pouliot is now before making the NHL permanently. He didn't exceed expectations immediately. Sheary didn't produce his first season (Kuhn outscored him) but look what he did in his second. Ian Cole was up and down to the AHL until he was 24 and he was a high draft pick. Kunitz was waived before he made it. Not everyone that makes it is Maatta or Guentzel and you usually have to give guys time to adjust to the league.

Even if a guy looks atrocious for 5 games, that doesn't mean he'll continue to look atrocious after 15 or 25 or 45 games. Hell, some guys take YEARS before they look like quality players. Coaches and GMs should put their faith in guys to raise their game, put them in a position to succeed, build their confidence and give them a million chances early on while playing them every night. If they continue to fail after dozens of games with every possible obstacle removed, then you know for certain that they don't have it and you can move on. If you give them 5 games here, 7 games there, 15 games there and punish every mistake you just kill their confidence, get them second guessing and waste everyone's time as well as a potentially valuable asset. I would rather have a player suck for 40 games and get traded at 21 for real assets rather than play ok for 5 games, get sent down and look good in the AHL, come up for 10 games, go back down etc etc for years before getting dumped for nothing.

 

[billybudd]

He is 100% responsible for the 15-16 season (crap camp, average showing in a 16 game stint), but he didn't get a chance to play last season. He needs a chance to work through his issues at the NHL level, playing 3 or 5 or 7 games was never going to do that. The Penguins should have traded him last off season if they weren't committed to giving him 20+ games and give him every chance to succeed.

To get the opportunity to "work through" things at the NHL level, one needs to show progress somewhere along the line. Best Pouliot managed in his time here was 'okay for a #7 D,' a level which he only maintained for about a month. Next time he suited up for an NHL game, he was awful again, and in the minors, he never seems to have progressed to a level that demanded a long look like Dumoulin eventually began to.

Guys who struggle in the NHL and remain in the NHL for a long, uninterrupted stretch of games, anyway--showing little or no progress along the way--normally either wash out or experience developmental setbacks (Neiderreiter, for example).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

He is 100% responsible for the 15-16 season (crap camp, average showing in a 16 game stint), but he didn't get a chance to play last season. He needs a chance to work through his issues at the NHL level, playing 3 or 5 or 7 games was never going to do that. The Penguins should have traded him last off season if they weren't committed to giving him 20+ games and give him every chance to succeed.

The Pens are in the business of winning. They don't have the luxury of letting Pouliot play 20+ games in a row to find his game if his defensive shortcomings are going to hurt the Pens during those games.

That's the reality of playing for a contender. If you're trying to earn a spot, you'll sit often and then have to impress when you do get your chances. If you can't do that, then that's on you. The other youngsters that actually panned out were able to make the most of their opportunities when injuries hit and they were given their chance.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I do agree that, even though the Pouliot had problems, the Pens didn't use him properly. He had something to do with his development, of course, but they didn't nurture and develop his offensive skills.

Thats bs and you know it.

 

[Pens x]

Bye Pooh

 

[cygnus47]

To get the opportunity to "work through" things at the NHL level, one needs to show progress somewhere along the line. Best Pouliot managed in his time here was 'okay for a #7 D,' a level which he only maintained for about a month. Next time he suited up for an NHL game, he was awful again, and in the minors, he never seems to have progressed to a level that demanded a long look like Dumoulin eventually began to.

Guys who struggle in the NHL and remain in the NHL for a long, uninterrupted stretch of games, anyway--showing little or no progress along the way--normally either wash out or experience developmental setbacks (Neiderreiter, for example).

I challenge you to prove that guys with high ceilings "normally" washout or get set back if they play for a long interrupted period without progress. It does happen, but you don't have any proof that it happens more that way than it does the other. I would challenge that most high end players have setbacks in their first year or two of playing and that playing through it is more beneficial than getting sent down (Conor Sheary for example).

Also, do you mean this Nino that has three 20 goal seasons and is trending upwards while playing ~15 minutes a night?