Post-Game Talk: Penguins team "coming in peace" Pens - 0 , Stars - 3

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This is an insanely stupid point. A player like Letang isn't going to get out of his funk by not playing. Let's remember the amount of games he has missed including training camp. Also let's remember that our team is transitioning to a completely different system. Letang has been the starlet of our previous system, there are going to be growing pains. Remember, Paul Martin coming from an intensely defensive system to our run and gun breakout? Should we have benched Martin for inexperienced players that currently can't even force out a 18 year old from stealing what should've been a guaranteed spot in this line-up?

Engo and Orpik, I can see your argument in. Save Orpik's chemistry with Martin.

Yeah ummm no. Martin's one bad year had A LOT more to do with personal play and confidence than the system. System failures are team failures, not individual failures.

There is no "chemistry" persay with Orpik and Martin. The only thing Martin should be given credit for is that he's likely to know when Orpik is about **** up so he can cover. If you call that "chemistry" then...well...

The vets know they have a spot. Right now there is NOTHING in place to stop them from taking a night off. Nothing. That is an issue.
 

Michael8771*

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I thought Dallas played a very impressive game from start to finish. They came with speed (tons of it) they caused turnovers, they back checked extremely well and of course there goalie was very solid. We had spurts where we pushed back, particularly in the 3rd period, and honestly I don't think we played terrible, Dallas just outclassed us. While it clearly wasn't our best effort, sometimes you gotta give the other guys some credit. Hopefully we'll learn from this.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Yes, we've looked bad without Letang before, but we've also done extremely well without him. Add to that the fact that our young defensemen are coming in and playing very well (Maatta) or are right on the cusp (Despres, Bortuzzo) or a step away (Dumoulin, Pouliot), Letang is getting increasingly less integral to this team.
 

CrozJawz*

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All I can say is that they better get the issues worked out and makes some moves at the deadline because the schedule in March gets about as brutal as it can get...
 

Ogrezilla

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All I can say is that they better get the issues worked out and makes some moves at the deadline because the schedule in March gets about as brutal as it can get...

I wish we had the tough schedule leading up to the deadline instead of right after it. Though losing to three really bad teams in the last two weeks should be a decent indication that everything isn't sunshine.
 

CrozJawz*

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I wish we had the tough schedule leading up to the deadline instead of right after it. Though losing to three really bad teams in the last two weeks should be a decent indication that everything isn't sunshine.

NONSENSE!!!

20+ games over .500, tops in their division, tops in the east, leading scorer in the NHL, Fleury leads the league in wins....

It's all goooood in the neighborhooooooood!!!:shakehead
 

Michael8771*

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McGinn...or most likely Mitchell :(

Crappy source though. They also say Goc and Brad Fu**ing Boyes are good fits.

I will have a meltdown...I swear to God.
I think at the very least we're looking at Mcginn and Talbot, beyond that it could be the mighty ROR. Let's remember RS has brought in quite a few big name players here. Ownership supports such decisions.
 

drpepper

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I think at the very least we're looking at Mcginn and Talbot, beyond that it could be the mighty ROR. Let's remember RS has brought in quite a few big name players here. Ownership supports such decisions.

I don't see how ROR to Pittsburgh is going to work value-wise not the least because Colorado seems to want to resign ROR.
 

drpepper

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LETANG, there's your value.

Except Letang has a long-term contract and ROR doesn't. Even if ROR is helpful in the immediate time frame, this seems like a bad deal long term if ROR doesn't sign with the Pens. Although, I will be honest that I don't fully understand ROR's contract situation and previous issues with Colorado.
 

Ogrezilla

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I think at the very least we're looking at Mcginn and Talbot, beyond that it could be the mighty ROR. Let's remember RS has brought in quite a few big name players here. Ownership supports such decisions.

I think that we are looking at all of these guys knowing that we can offer pretty much a sliding scale of d-men and they have a similarly sliding scale of forwards. That could explain why we have been looking for so long. We We have a physical rental. We have a skill rental. We have a young stud. We have a big ticket norris candidate. I'd like to think Shero would at least discuss moves around any of these guys. We could be looking at everyone while Shero evaluates what we need and what we can afford to move.
 

drpepper

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Can the Avs re-sign ROR for cheaper than the $6.5M prior to his current contract expiring?

This is the best explanation of his situation that I have found so far. So it sounds like the team and his agent can negociate a contract for salary and terms. ROR can accept any salary and terms even if it is less than 6.5 million. ROR seems to want to stay in Colorado; Roy seems to like ROR; and the previous management that ROR had issues with is gone, I think.
 

Michael8771*

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I think that we are looking at all of these guys knowing that we can offer pretty much a sliding scale of d-men and they have a similarly sliding scale of forwards. That could explain why we have been looking for so long. We We have a physical rental. We have a skill rental. We have a young stud. We have a big ticket norris candidate. I'd like to think Shero would at least discuss moves around any of these guys. We could be looking at everyone while Shero evaluates what we need and what we can afford to move.
IMO we need two players. A top six winger and a third line guy with Grit and experience. We might have to make separate deals but we really are bereft of quality depth upfront. As a Side not Eberle has scored again, this truly is the quality right handed shot I covet.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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- The bottom six has maybe one or two goals since Christmas. It's alarming as hell.

- The fourth line can't cycle worth a damn

- I can't remember their last SH goal. Adams and Glass are too slow to push the points, let alone force play up the ice.

- I saw a stat that said Crosby and Malkin are in on over 60% of this teams goals. Once again they are the band-aid that keeps this disturbing cycle going.

You can't just purge the roster mid-season and bring in a bunch of players to fix these problems ( for many reasons). So they need to find internal solutions where they can.

I think Kobasew would be a good fourth liner here. A fourth line of Kobasew, Vitale and Megna would do exactly what this team needs: be an energy line.

BB can help upgrade the top nine... But I'm not comfortable with JJ playing with Malkin come playoff time. He's too slow. Period.

Crosby needs help as well... Duh.

I don't know how this will all shake down, but the top six needs more speed and skill, the third line needs more skill and size, and the fourth line needs Adams and Glass out of the way.

Shero really has to consider moving established roster players if he wants to get out of this loop.

JJ's speed-- or lack thereof-- isn't the issue, because having speed never has been a prerequisite for playing with Malkin.

The issue is that he needs a *****. Call it a puck retriever or whatever else you want, you need a guy who's got enough skill to play with and read off of what Geno (and Neal or whoever his finisher is) does but most importantly to be the guy who's always in good defensive position, goes to the net, and can win board battles/tie things up.

Fast or slow, big or little . . . doesn't really matter. But, Kule, Malone, Talbot . . . every one of them had that particular set of complementary talents.

And, really, here's why that is so important: You noted that what teams do to shut Sid and Geno down is to defend them in layers. More than anything else, Geno loathes giving up the puck and 'wasting' a shift.

When confronted with a layered defense, he's got three choices. Try to skate through three guys. Works once in a while but only when employed randomly. Try a slick pass. Same thing. Works once in a while but only when employed randomly.

The 'smart' thing is to dump the puck. But, I think from Geno's perspective, dumping the puck 'wastes' a shift when there's nobody but him that has any chance of getting it.

Go back to the 2009 finals. Watch what he did. If the layers attacked, he dumped and then supported Talbot on the chase. If the layers were loose, he'd take entry to the zone, force them to attack him in the offense zone, and use Talbot as an outlet whenever he got trapped.

But, you need SOMEONE doing that, and that just isn't JJ's game.

For Sid, he needs some speed and skill from ONE linemate because he and Kunitz, as a tandem, are better suited to utilize that type of player to attack the layers.

Fixing those two issues doesn't address the bottom six or the coaching. But, as I keep saying, if you put Sid and Geno in the best possible position to succeed and give both of them two complementary wingers each, then at least you give the Pens a fighting chance to overcome the internal obstacles.
 

Ogrezilla

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KIRK, that's the best I've seen it described in the two years you have been saying it. I certainly don't know how to talk actual hockey language so I haven't been able to help you articulate it in that time either. Thank you, good sir.
 

KIRK

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KIRK, that's the best I've seen it described in the two years you have been saying it. I certainly don't know how to talk actual hockey language so I haven't been able to help you articulate it in that time either. Thank you, good sir.

I actually have to give props to Jiggy. The phrase I've used is 'good defensive team', but 'layers'-- his word-- captures it so much better, because what we're really talking about is teams that collapse on Sid and Geno, regardless of the different tactics/structure employed to do it.

A few people in this thread have mentioned Stewart and Kulemin. Even Stewart isn't a top player. But, look at how Stewart plays, where he's strong, and how that would mesh with Sid and Kunitz in attacking a layered defense. Same with Kule with Geno and Neal. I just see getting a pair of guys like that as doing so much more to help this team than getting a Steve Ott or maybe playing Despres over Orpik (even if that one weren't addition by subtraction in its own right).

I can't imagine, though, what it's like for Sid and Geno out there. Against a team that is disciplined about defending in layers, it's like they've got to go full blown God mode . . . to maybe have a fighting chance.

Really, someone needs to pimp slap Ray Shero for that. Bylsma drives me nuts. The Orpik and Gladams **** drives me nuts. Despres being wasted, all the rest. BUT, I could live with all of that ****. The one thing that is absolutely unacceptable on any level is the way in which Ray Shero has ****** over two generational talents and taken the team's most unique advantage-- one that could be HUGE against anyone-- and mitigated it. MTL is right. The guy people should be really going after, without mercy or apology, is Ray Shero, because he's done more than anyone else to set Sid and Geno up to fail.
 

KIRK

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I can't imagine the frustration they have to feel. Sid especially right now.

Geno . . . maybe once a week or two he'll see a team that defends in layers well, and one out of three of those times, he might be in God mode anyway. Rest of the time, Jokinen actually is fine, just like having BOTH Feds and Sykora for wingers was fine even though neither truly was a puck retriever (Feds could retrieve pucks in the way that Neal can retriever pucks, but neither truly was/is a puck retriever).

Sid must be going nuts, because he's just got nothing to help. Dupuis, even Bennett . . . it would be the same situation as what Geno is dealing with. Right now, what he and Kunitz are dealing with was like what Geno and Neal were dealing with early last year.
 

SEALBound

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Letang to COL for ROR + Conditional 1st 2015. If ROR resigns in PIT, no pick. If ROR resigns in COL, 1st in 2015.

For ROR to sign in COL, he'll need to be offer sheeted. Compensation for $6.5mil is Two first-round picks and a second- and third-round pick.

If he resigns in PIT, no big deal. If he resigns in COL, we have a 1st in 2014, 2015, 2nd in 2014 now, and 2 3rds in 2014. We then find someone who has a nice young winger and trade 2 1sts and a 2nd for (because...we all know that can fetch a decent winger).

Done and done.
 
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