Post-Game Talk: Penguins team "coming in peace" Pens - 0 , Stars - 3

[Ogrezilla]

Without doing the leg work and researching, I'd be willing to stake a lot of money that we've looked better as a whole team more often without Letang (or Orpik) than with him (them).

That's true this year. In years past we really struggled when Letang was out. But in years past we didn't have Despres and Maatta.

 

[Winger for Hire]

That's true this year. In years past we really struggled when Letang was out. But in years past we didn't have Despres and Maatta.

That's what I was getting at, this year. I wasn't aware I needed Letang's teams' stats going all the way back to his QAAA days.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That's what I was getting at, this year. I wasn't aware I needed Letang's teams' stats going all the way back to his QAAA days.

Oh I was just using you as a jumping point, not disagreeing with you at all.

The fact that we used to struggle without him but don't anymore is the key to why I changed my mind from the off-season to now about trading him. My argument for trading Letang isn't that he sucks. Its that we don't need him like we used to.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Oh I was just using you as a jumping point, not disagreeing with you at all.

The fact that we used to struggle without him but don't anymore is the key to why I changed my mind from the off-season to now about trading him. My argument for trading Letang isn't that he sucks. Its that we don't need him like we used to.

Understood, I was more trying to subtly get a dig in on pixiesfan. I'm still working on my message board banter and sarcasm. Might need a game in the press box to see how it works from higher up.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Understood, I was more trying to subtly get a dig in on pixiesfan. I'm still working on my message board banter and sarcasm. Might need a game in the press box to see how it works from higher up.

no way, you gotta play through it.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's what I was getting at, this year. I wasn't aware I needed Letang's teams' stats going all the way back to his QAAA days.

And what happens when Maatta plays more than a handful of games and starts getting exposed when all the forechecking attention is focused on him instead of Letang?

Rookie defenseman look great all the time, and then have a severe drop in overall play their sophomore year. Look at Letang for a prime example. Now, we can all sit and gush over Maatta and how he is the next Lidstrom, but the simple fact is that there are teams in the NHL, Maatta hasn't even played against. It is hard to plan against a player especially one with the skating ability and overall poise of Maatta when you have no game tape on him. The same thing happens with goalies, they look great one year and then everyone starts noticing their flaws and exploits them. See, Raycroft or Leclaire as a perfect example.

Letang is a necessity we need because it helps us gradually place players like Maatta and Despres in situations to succeed and succeed long term. I won't be surprised if Letang is traded in three or four years, when our slow approach to easing players like Despres and Maatta in ice time pays off and they are absolute studs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And what happens when Maatta plays more than a handful of games and starts getting exposed when all the forechecking attention is focused on him instead of Letang?

Rookie defenseman look great all the time, and then have a severe drop in overall play their sophomore year. Look at Letang for a prime example. Now, we can all sit and gush over Maatta and how he is the next Lidstrom, but the simple fact is that there are teams in the NHL, Maatta hasn't even played against. It is hard to plan against a player especially one with the skating ability and overall poise of Maatta when you have no game tape on him. The same thing happens with goalies, they look great one year and then everyone starts noticing their flaws and exploits them. See, Raycroft or Leclaire as a perfect example.

Letang is a necessity we need because it helps us gradually place players like Maatta and Despres in situations to succeed and succeed long term. I won't be surprised if Letang is traded in three or four years, when our slow approach to easing players like Despres and Maatta in ice time pays off and they are absolute studs.

Martin, Scuderi and Niskanen can do that, can't they?

 

[Winger for Hire]

And what happens when Maatta plays more than a handful of games and starts getting exposed when all the forechecking attention is focused on him instead of Letang?

Rookie defenseman look great all the time, and then have a severe drop in overall play their sophomore year. Look at Letang for a prime example. Now, we can all sit and gush over Maatta and how he is the next Lidstrom, but the simple fact is that there are teams in the NHL, Maatta hasn't even played against. It is hard to plan against a player especially one with the skating ability and overall poise of Maatta when you have no game tape on him. The same thing happens with goalies, they look great one year and then everyone starts noticing their flaws and exploits them. See, Raycroft or Leclaire as a perfect example.

Letang is a necessity we need because it helps us gradually place players like Maatta and Despres in situations to succeed and succeed long term. I won't be surprised if Letang is traded in three or four years, when our slow approach to easing players like Despres and Maatta in ice time pays off and they are absolute studs.

We'll probably never know with Despres. Thought they have turned him into quite the AHL stud.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Martin, Scuderi and Niskanen can do that, can't they?

Apparently only Maatta and Despres are capable of replacing Letang. Forget about the other good blueliners we have.

 

[Gurglesons]

Martin, Scuderi and Niskanen can do that, can't they?

No, because that places two inexperienced d-men into top 4 roles. Players like Martin and Letang that can play upwards of 25 minutes are special players. You don't just throw a kid like Maatta in there for 25 minutes a game. Also, you can argue that Niskanen can take Letang's minutes, but once again. I'm not ready to throw my eggs into that basket until he proves he can look good for more than one season.

We'll probably never know with Despres. Thought they have turned him into quite the AHL stud.

Most of our previous defenseman like Gogo, Whitney, etc that have been raised in our system have come to be permanent fixtures around 22 or 23. What age is Despres?

 

[Fordy]

And what happens when Maatta plays more than a handful of games and starts getting exposed when all the forechecking attention is focused on him instead of Letang?

Rookie defenseman look great all the time, and then have a severe drop in overall play their sophomore year. Look at Letang for a prime example. Now, we can all sit and gush over Maatta and how he is the next Lidstrom, but the simple fact is that there are teams in the NHL, Maatta hasn't even played against. It is hard to plan against a player especially one with the skating ability and overall poise of Maatta when you have no game tape on him. The same thing happens with goalies, they look great one year and then everyone starts noticing their flaws and exploits them. See, Raycroft or Leclaire as a perfect example.

Letang is a necessity we need because it helps us gradually place players like Maatta and Despres in situations to succeed and succeed long term. I won't be surprised if Letang is traded in three or four years, when our slow approach to easing players like Despres and Maatta in ice time pays off and they are absolute studs.

can you elaborate as to why out of all the d-men letang is the only one that can do this?

 

[Winger for Hire]

No, because that places two inexperienced d-men into top 4 roles. Players like Martin and Letang that can play upwards of 25 minutes are special players. You don't just throw a kid like Maatta in there for 25 minutes a game. Also, you can argue that Niskanen can take Letang's minutes, but once again. I'm not ready to throw my eggs into that basket until he proves he can look good for more than one season.

Such a special player that he can't play on special teams.

I know he "runs" the PP, but lets call a spade a spade, he's rubbish on the PP.

 

[Ogrezilla]

No, because that places two inexperienced d-men into top 4 roles. Players like Martin and Letang that can play upwards of 25 minutes are special players. You don't just throw a kid like Maatta in there for 25 minutes a game. Also, you can argue that Niskanen can take Letang's minutes, but once again. I'm not ready to throw my eggs into that basket until he proves he can look good for more than one season.

No it doesn't. It places one in a top 4 role. And thats if we move both Orpik and Letang. if we only trade Letang, it actually puts none in a top 4 role and still likely leaves Despres on the bench.

Scuderi - Niskanen
Orpik - Martin
Maatta - Bortuzzo/Engo/Despres

 

[Gurglesons]

can you elaborate as to why out of all the d-men letang is the only one that can do this?

Because I don't have faith in Niskanen playing more than 25 minutes a game. Scuderi isn't going to be able to do that. So, we have Martin and Letang otherwise you are throwing a rookie defenseman 25 minutes to get exposed up and down the ice.

 

[Gurglesons]

Such a special player that he can't play on special teams.

I know he "runs" the PP, but lets call a spade a spade, he's rubbish on the PP.

He is three goals off the lead for defenseman and has played only half the season. That is what I would call a special player.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Most of our previous defenseman like Gogo, Whitney, etc that have been raised in our system have come to be permanent fixtures around 22 or 23. What age is Despres?

22... and he's not been allowed to become a permanent fixture because he's been labeled as a troublemaker or something by the coaches. He's certainly proved to be a better all-around defender in the time he's been given to show it then Whitney or GoGo have when they were handed spots.

 

[Gurglesons]

No it doesn't. It places one in a top 4 role. And thats if we move both Orpik and Letang. if we only trade Letang, it actually puts none in a top 4 role and still likely leaves Despres on the bench.

Scuderi - Niskanen
Orpik - Martin
Maatta - Bortuzzo/Engo/Despres

I have no faith in Niskanen playing 25+. He did it a couple of games this year, lets see how much of a subpar Letang he looks after doing it for a year or two.

 

[Winger for Hire]

He is three goals off the lead for defenseman and has played only half the season. That is what I would call a special player.

That'd be great if he was a winger scoring goals, but too bad he's a mess when it comes to his defensive game. Defenders are paid to defend and then put point on the back of their hockey cards.

Letang is little more (right now) than a less douchy Mike Green.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I have no faith in Niskanen playing 25+. He did it a couple of games this year, lets see how much of a subpar Letang he looks after doing it for a year or two.

Trading Letang would obviously downgrade the defense. But think about what the forward group would look like with the return we get for him.

 

[IcedCapp]

ITT: Pixiesfanyo regales us with tales of irreplaceable veteran defensemen. I, for one, hope you guys keep quoting him.

 

[Gurglesons]

22... and he's not been allowed to become a permanent fixture because he's been labeled as a troublemaker or something by the coaches. He's certainly proved to be a better all-around defender in the time he's been given to show it then Whitney or GoGo have when they were handed spots.

Despres will either be off this team or a permanent fixture in our D next year. I can guarantee that. He has taken the same progression a lot of our players have over the past ten years via our system. Defensive positions are not just gifted, both GoGo and Whitney proved themselves to be legitimate offensive threats when Gonchar couldn't carry the load. That is why they were added. Despres playing sound defensively is not going to urge his playing on this line-up, especially with Maatta being around now.

 

[mpp9]

Because I don't have faith in Niskanen playing more than 25 minutes a game. Scuderi isn't going to be able to do that. So, we have Martin and Letang otherwise you are throwing a rookie defenseman 25 minutes to get exposed up and down the ice.

Letang hasn't been playing 25+. He can replaced on the PP. He doesn't have a prominent role on the PK. And Nisky can absolutely play with Scuds in a middle pairing role.

Despres can absolutely replace alot of Letang's transition game as well.

It's a question of Shero having the balls to move him. Rather than this team missing the guy.

 

[Gurglesons]

Trading Letang would obviously downgrade the defense. But think about what the forward group would look like with the return we get for him.

Honestly though, do you remember this team after the Montreal loss?

Trading a player like Letang would put our defense back as a liability because we would be concentrating all of the forechecking on a player like Nisky who is not a physical specimen like Letang and also simply hasn't shown the consistent poise outside of this year. If it happens, I think you'll see how glaring a hole a player of Letang's caliber departing the top 4 would effect us. You can cite December, but lets remember that was only one month.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Honestly though, do you remember this team after the Montreal loss?

Trading a player like Letang would put our defense back as a liability because we would be concentrating all of the forechecking on a player like Nisky who is not a physical specimen like Letang and also simply hasn't shown the consistent poise outside of this year. If it happens, I think you'll see how glaring a hole a player of Letang's caliber departing the top 4 would effect us. You can cite December, but lets remember that was only one month.

Did you just use the phrase consistent poise to describe Kristopher Letang? I have to be misreading that. I mean, its more implied I guess. You're just saying Niskanen hasn't shown it for long. Which is true. But neither has Letang. So I don't get your point.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Did you just use the phrase consistent poise to describe Kristopher Letang?

This is when I bow out because it's getting weird....