Post-Game Talk: Penguins team "coming in peace" Pens - 0 , Stars - 3

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PensPlz

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Dec 23, 2009
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Letang to COL for ROR + Conditional 1st 2015. If ROR resigns in PIT, no pick. If ROR resigns in COL, 1st in 2015.

For ROR to sign in COL, he'll need to be offer sheeted. Compensation for $6.5mil is Two first-round picks and a second- and third-round pick.

If he resigns in PIT, no big deal. If he resigns in COL, we have a 1st in 2014, 2015, 2nd in 2014 now, and 2 3rds in 2014. We then find someone who has a nice young winger and trade 2 1sts and a 2nd for (because...we all know that can fetch a decent winger).

Done and done.

Can't say I wouldn't miss Letang, because I like the guy as a person... but this makes a lot of sense. Just would need a Left winger, shutdown-guy for the third line and we're golden.

Kuntiz - Crosby - ROR
JJ - Geno - Neal
? - Sutter - Bennett
 

Al Smith

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Apr 28, 2012
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Pyatt has also looked good with Geno btw.

But hey, JJ can get open for some nice shots/goals every 10 games so don't change it up.

I don't know. A couple goals, wins an occasional board battle, OK. But overall, he sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb when he plays with Geno, IMO. He's just another 4th line grinder, at best.
 

MeticulouslyDishevel

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Oct 23, 2012
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For the last several seasons, we see the same patterns emerging around this time of year... Of course, the team will be put on Crosby and Malkin's back and they will go on a winning streak, etc, and these weaknesses are covered up/forgotten.

Coverage breakdowns, lack of discipline and accountability, lack of skill in the top six, and the biggest one of all, the Crosby/Malkin blueprint.

Teams that smother Crosby and Malkin are using "layers" to accomplish it, and it has been the same story for awhile. Whether they are using a box/1 or more aggressive sagging zones, the goal is to play soft on Crosby and Malkin's wingers, and to aggressively attack Malkin/Crosby.

In the NZ, these teams generally have the first man back pressure Malkin/Crosby with the strong side blueliner. This is unusual because the first man back is suppose to cover up the middle and leave the puck carrier to the blueliners.

They are once again daring their wingers to beat them.

Most teams don't have the discipline/talent to smother both Malkin and Crosby, or those two use their talent to break these systems down.

But come playoff time, the Bruins, and I believe if the Wings sneak in, could beat this team using these strategies once again. The powerhouse teams in the West are ideally built to smother Malkin/Crosby.

The Leafs and Hawks broke down the Bruins layers because their talent was spread out on every line and both teams had very skilled top sixes.

Not only will the elite teams have the talent, but the coaching as well to exploit the disadvantages Crosby and Malkin are forced to play against.

So if we know how this story ends, why bother? I'm still hoping Shero finds a way to inject more skill and toughness in this lineup, but he is going to have to make roster players available that he isn't comfortable with.

This means he has to be willing to move Nisky, Orpik, Sutter, Martin, etc in an actual hockey trade and not just his "prospect assets".

Thanks for that explanation of the system.
 

TimmyD

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Nov 11, 2013
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I don't care how long he's played. He's not that good anymore. He'd be a fine 3rd pairing guy. Not as good as Bortuzzo or Despres, but he wouldn't look out of place on a 3rd pairing. He looks awful playing 20+ minutes a night though. Can you tell me what he does well? I will look for it next game.

But... but... but veteran leadership!!
 

Michael8771*

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We are NOT getting ROR.

When will people realize this?
I've been around quite a while and I've seen many people assert such things as you are here. Be it at work, at a friends house or here on line. ''We're not getting Tocchet'', ''no way are they getting Kasparitis'', ''Hossa's a pipe dream'' ''stop talking about Iginla, it's not happening'' and on and on. The point is you just never know. The Pen's have made a habit of trading for big name players. Doesn't happen every year but it does happen quite a bit.
 

Winger for Hire

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Dec 9, 2013
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I've been around quite a while and I've seen many people assert such things as you are here. Be it at work, at a friends house or here on line. ''We're not getting Tocchet'', ''no way are they getting Kasparitis'', ''Hossa's a pipe dream'' ''stop talking about Iginla, it's not happening'' and on and on. The point is you just never know. The Pen's have made a habit of trading for big name players. Doesn't happen every year but it does happen quite a bit.

It's a little different under the salary cap now. Before you counter with "Hossa was under the cap", that was the only time I can really remember Shero using entry level contracts of good younger players to his advantage and is the exception that proves the rule.
 

Michael8771*

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It's a little different under the salary cap now. Before you counter with "Hossa was under the cap", that was the only time I can really remember Shero using entry level contracts of good younger players to his advantage and is the exception that proves the rule.
No, it isn't different, because if we traded Letang, the salaries would end up working in our favor. And we're not gonna get a guy like ROR without a big name guy goin back. Salary in this instance isn't a major concern. Again we're not gonna get a guy of that ilk for a cheap prospect and draft pick.
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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You know, if he's nervous about Malkin and Neal defensively, then JJ would be just about the last guy who makes sense to put with them. That said, I can see HOW Bylsma thinks that way anyway. Interesting and IMO really good explanation for Bylsma's fixation.

Really? JJ is pretty solid defensively and is always in the right defensive position in the offensive zone in case there's a turnover. I agree with you that he's not ideal because he doesn't hunt pucks or win board battles.
 

Speaking Moistly

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It's a little different under the salary cap now. Before you counter with "Hossa was under the cap", that was the only time I can really remember Shero using entry level contracts of good younger players to his advantage and is the exception that proves the rule.

Eh, I think the speculation is largely for "fun". Shero has actually pulled things off in the past, so he could do it again, I suppose. He probably won't do anything but we're being entertained. It's pretty much all speculation anyway, how any player is value by the Pens or other teams, what other teams think they need, who anyone is interested in.
 

shizno*

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Feb 28, 2012
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This was painful to watch in person. There were more Pens fans than Stars fans in their own arena but they got the only laugh. Only highlight was how mad they got over Glass's hit.
 

themethod7

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I agree. ROR is a young, talented, two-way center. He leads all Colorado forwards in ice time. He is 4th on their team in scoring, only 3 points behind 2nd. Put yourself in Colorado's place. Then ask "How would I improve my team by trading ROR to the Penguins for Despres+?"

Remember that the guy running the ship out there is a French Canadian with less than a year of experience. Then recall the fact that 2 of their top 4D are 30+ yrs old, one only signed through this year and the other through next year. Then swap out Despres for Letang and ask yourself the same question. It's not hard to see why it's at least on some people's radar, regardless of whether it happens or not.
 

Waffle Fries

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Mar 7, 2013
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No, it isn't different, because if we traded Letang, the salaries would end up working in our favor. And we're not gonna get a guy like ROR without a big name guy goin back. Salary in this instance isn't a major concern. Again we're not gonna get a guy of that ilk for a cheap prospect and draft pick.

Salary for this season is a concern and would not work in our favor at all. The types of wingers we would want in return for Letang likely makes more than him right now, unless there was a player who is in the same situation Letang is contract wise where his big money extension doesn't kick in till next season. We're tight on cap space, and we still don't know if Vokoun is planning on coming back so we have to keep that space open.
 

Speaking Moistly

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Salary for this season is a concern and would not work in our favor at all. The types of wingers we would want in return for Letang likely makes more than him right now, unless there was a player who is in the same situation Letang is contract wise where his big money extension doesn't kick in till next season. We're tight on cap space, and we still don't know if Vokoun is planning on coming back so we have to keep that space open.

That's where Orpik comes in, and then there's Glass or Pyatt. They could find the cap space if they wanted to and they'd probably be a better team for it.

3.75 + 3.5 + 1.1 = 7.35M
 

Waffle Fries

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That's where Orpik comes in, and then there's Glass or Pyatt. They could find the cap space if they wanted to and they'd probably be a better team for it.

3.75 + 3.5 + 1.1 = 7.35M

Are we just dumping Orpik in that situation?

Besides, Shero isn't trading two roster defensemen, and no one would trade for Glass or Pyatt. We'd just have to keep our fingers crossed that they would get picked up on waivers or we'd still be on the hook for a decent portion of the contract.

If you traded Orpik and Letang our defense would be what?

Scuderi-Niskanen
Maatta-Martin
Despres-Engelland

?

Yeah, I kind of hate that.
 

Speaking Moistly

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Are we just dumping Orpik in that situation?

Besides, Shero isn't trading two roster defensemen, and no one would trade for Glass or Pyatt. We'd just have to keep our fingers crossed that they would get picked up on waivers or we'd still be on the hook for a decent portion of the contract.

If you traded Orpik and Letang our defense would be what?

Scuderi-Niskanen
Maatta-Martin
Despres-Engelland

?

Yeah, I kind of hate that.

No, you could most likely get picks for him or a prospect. Not that dumping Orpik wouldn't improve the team, they could get something for him to replenish the draft picks or pool. Carcillo got traded for, so I wouldn't say that Glass absolutely couldn't be. Most of Glass' salary would also be off the books, 175000 would still count.

Scuderi - Niskanen
Despres - Martin
Maatta - Bortuzzo


The point being that they could find the cap space if they really wanted to.

And right you are... I'm not used to thinking of Letang as $3.5mil. He's been ingrained in my mind as $7.25mil.

Thanks for setting me straight.

You triggered me rushing to capgeek to check Letang's salary for the season. :laugh:
 

Waffle Fries

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Mar 7, 2013
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No, you could most likely get picks for him or a prospect. Not that dumping Orpik wouldn't improve the team, they could get something for him to replenish the draft picks or pool. Carcillo got traded for, so I wouldn't say that Glass absolutely couldn't be. Most of Glass' salary would also be off the books, 175000 would still count.

Scuderi - Niskanen
Despres - Martin
Maatta - Bortuzzo


The point being that they could find the cap space if they really wanted to.

I still hate that defense, and there's no way Bylsma would have Despres, Maatta, and Bort all in the lineup with Engelland available.
 

Michael8771*

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Salary for this season is a concern and would not work in our favor at all. The types of wingers we would want in return for Letang likely makes more than him right now, unless there was a player who is in the same situation Letang is contract wise where his big money extension doesn't kick in till next season. We're tight on cap space, and we still don't know if Vokoun is planning on coming back so we have to keep that space open.
We can fit in a six million dollar a year player THIS season. It works out becauise PD is out, you add that to Letangs salary, you free up over seven million, problem solved.
 

Speaking Moistly

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I still hate that defense, and there's no way Bylsma would have Despres, Maatta, and Bort all in the lineup with Engelland available.

I like it more than what we have now. :dunno:

Bylsma can get over it if he's forced to. I could probably tolerate Engelland over Bortuzzo if it got Crosby his Neal and I didn't have to watch Orpik.
 
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