Confirmed with Link: Penguins sign Josh Maniscalco to a three-year, entry-level contract

[JTG]

What is happening with Hornqvist is what I worried about when he signed that deal. Many thought his game could age like Holmstrom's did, but it's just not possible in today's NHL. Hornqvist is effective 20 games a year. His body just cannot take the abuse anymore. It's unfortunate because in his younger days he was an x-factor in that lineup. What a beauty of a hockey player.

 

[Peat]

What is happening with Hornqvist is what I worried about when he signed that deal. Many thought his game could age like Holmstrom's did, but it's just not possible in today's NHL. Hornqvist is effective 20 games a year. His body just cannot take the abuse anymore. It's unfortunate because in his younger days he was an x-factor in that lineup. What a beauty of a hockey player.

That's pretty much straight up not what happened last year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I want Hornqvist gone because he's not a fit here anymore, not because he's bad. He's still a very effective 2nd line player and I don't know how anyone can act like he's a bad player. His issue is that he doesn't fit with Crosby and Malkin, makes more than you'd want from your 3rd line RW and doesn't really fit the team identity.

 

[Peat]

I want Hornqvist gone because he's not a fit here anymore, not because he's bad. He's still a very effective 2nd line player and I don't know how anyone can act like he's a bad player. His issue is that he doesn't fit with Crosby and Malkin, makes more than you'd want from your 3rd line RW and doesn't really fit the team identity.

I'd argue with that too tbh. Most 3rd lines cost a bit over 10m. If one of the players on the line is an ELC, there's not a lot of reason to not have a player worth 5m or so there - and there's probably not a lot of great 3rd lines out there that don't feature players costing 5m, that are worth 5m. Nashville's does, but they use two 4m guys.

Obviously if Rutherford's planning on a new 3C and paying McCann and putting him on the 3rd line then it's a bit different but in isolation, having a 5m player on the third line who gets 5m worthy results is a good thing imo; there should be enough money for the rest of the team.

 

[HandshakeLine]

@Empoleon8771 hits on another key question IMO: what is this team's identity going forward?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd argue with that too tbh. Most 3rd lines cost a bit over 10m. If one of the players on the line is an ELC, there's not a lot of reason to not have a player worth 5m or so there - and there's probably not a lot of great 3rd lines out there that don't feature players costing 5m, that are worth 5m. Nashville's does, but they use two 4m guys.

Obviously if Rutherford's planning on a new 3C and paying McCann and putting him on the 3rd line then it's a bit different but in isolation, having a 5m player on the third line who gets 5m worthy results is a good thing imo; there should be enough money for the rest of the team.

The issue isn't with what the 3rd line is making as a whole, it's what Hornqvist is specifically bringing to that line for that price. If I'm paying that price for a 3rd line winger, I want them to be able to carry that line and be a difference maker. I don't think Hornqvist is that, especially considering we have to worry about giving him a playmaking center or LW to make sure that line is effective.

I'm totally willing to pay a 3rd liner $5 million, based on my pimping up Domi for the last few weeks to be a 3C here. But I need that $5 million player to actually be able to carry that line, and Hornqvist just isn't that kind of player. Hornqvist is a complementary top-6 forward. I'd be saying the same thing about Zucker if Zucker was on the 3rd line.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I feel like people are almost incapable of talking rationally about Hornqvist because of how loved he is. And I mean... I get it. But I've never argued against Hornqvist from a negative point of view. More of a baffled one.

EDIT: Also the powerplay thing is getting a little tired, if I'm being honest. @Big Friggin Dummy already pointed this out but there are plenty of powerplays that exist that don't have Hornqvist on them. And most look more fluid and competent than the Penguins' (yes yes I know what the number say and yes results are important) does, anyway.

And as a third liner I can't help but agree with Emp -- dude is NOT a line driver.

 

[Peat]

The issue isn't with what the 3rd line is making as a whole, it's what Hornqvist is specifically bringing to that line for that price. If I'm paying that price for a 3rd line winger, I want them to be able to carry that line and be a difference maker. I don't think Hornqvist is that, especially considering we have to worry about giving him a playmaking center or LW to make sure that line is effective.

I'm totally willing to pay a 3rd liner $5 million, based on my pimping up Domi for the last few weeks to be a 3C here. But I need that $5 million player to actually be able to carry that line, and Hornqvist just isn't that kind of player. Hornqvist is a complementary top-6 forward. I'd be saying the same thing about Zucker if Zucker was on the 3rd line.

He's a difference maker on that line imo. He needs the right mix of people around him in a way maybe other players don't but his presence there notably improves results because he results in a big swing in activity levels near the nets.

Which is a quality he shares with Zucker imo. Both guys really drive possession. They mightn't always use it adroitly but they are guys who put the line in a position to succeed - which someone like Domi doesn't. Domi might use the possession given to him better, but he won't affect what's happening nearly as much. And they're both guys who can produce with non-stars too.

Realistically, no one guy is carrying a line without the right guys around him. Domi would need that as much as Zucker or Hornqvist. And Hornqvist has repeatedly made a big positive difference to our third line with the right guys around him.

I feel like people are almost incapable of talking rationally about Hornqvist because of how loved he is. And I mean... I get it. But I've never argued against Hornqvist from a negative point of view. More of a baffled one.

EDIT: Also the powerplay thing is getting a little tired, if I'm being honest. @Big Friggin Dummy already pointed this out but there are plenty of powerplays that exist that don't have Hornqvist on them. And most look more fluid and competent than the Penguins' (yes yes I know what the number say and yes results are important) does, anyway.

And as a third liner I can't help but agree with Emp -- dude is NOT a line driver.

I start with what works by the numbers and go back from there. Love the guy, but zero emotion in making the case for him.

edit: Which also includes believing he should be moved if he's going to be routinely moved off PP1.

 

[vikingGoalie]

I'm just going to hide this here.... so people can't flame me. With how Marino has gone, I think Oleksiak/Marino could have been a really good pairing. Letang/Dumo, Oleksiak/Marino, and now we have a ton of youth and Ruh to be that vet backup. I could actually get behind that type of d-core. I think Pets is nowhere near as good as Oleksiak for this team sadly. Dude is so scared to skate the puck.

Remove Schultz (let him walk) and buy out JJ and you have something cooking.

wasn't there a stat at one point where he was literally one of the most checked defensemen in the league or something like that?

 

[Victor Z]

wasn't there a stat at one point where he was literally one of the most checked defensemen in the league or something like that?

That is true (Penguin players tend to be quite prominent on the list of hits received every season) but that's part of the game and Breadstick Pettersson needs to do a better job of dealing with the situation.

 

[Peat]

wasn't there a stat at one point where he was literally one of the most checked defensemen in the league or something like that?

League leader in hits taken per 60 and it's not even close.

Followed by Riikola at 2nd, Dumoulin at 7th, and Marino at 11th.

I don't know what it is about our style that has them consistently getting hit, but there's got to be something...possibly related to Sportlogiq thinking we were the best team at preventing zone entries - no zone entries equal lots of dumps, lots of dumps equal lots of dmen getting hit.

 

[Victor Z]

What is happening with Hornqvist is what I worried about when he signed that deal. Many thought his game could age like Holmstrom's did, but it's just not possible in today's NHL. Hornqvist is effective 20 games a year. His body just cannot take the abuse anymore. It's unfortunate because in his younger days he was an x-factor in that lineup. What a beauty of a hockey player.

Hornqvist is unique on the Penguins as far as being willing to take that abuse and being effective in front of the net. The last Pen to even come close to playing that way was, who.... Ryan Malone?

For the sake of Horny's health I wouldn't mind seeing him traded; he'd take far less abuse wearing any other team's sweater. The refs might actually call occasional penalties on the numerous cheap shots he takes, and his teammates might actually stick up for him sometimes (and not even get penalized for it!) when the refs don't.

 

[LOGiK]

Hornqvist is unique on the Penguins as far as being willing to take that abuse and being effective in front of the net. The last Pen to even come close to playing that way was, who.... Ryan Malone?

For the sake of Horny's health I wouldn't mind seeing him traded; he'd take far less abuse wearing any other team's sweater. The refs might actually call occasional penalties on the numerous cheap shots he takes, and his teammates might actually stick up for him sometimes (and not even get penalized for it!) when the refs don't.

Yeah, but Ryan Malone took far worse abuse then PH could dream of.

I've lost count how many pucks to the face Malone took.


In all fairness he was, most likely, high as a kite. Amplified the crazy in RM.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

League leader in hits taken per 60 and it's not even close.

Followed by Riikola at 2nd, Dumoulin at 7th, and Marino at 11th.

I don't know what it is about our style that has them consistently getting hit, but there's got to be something...possibly related to Sportlogiq thinking we were the best team at preventing zone entries - no zone entries equal lots of dumps, lots of dumps equal lots of dmen getting hit.

That’s probably engineered a bit too by opposition due to the type of D we have imo. Not just entry defense. I’d rather make Petts or Dumo turn and retrieve and attempt to make plays and move pucks rather than letting them possibly engage me with their long reach.

 

[Andy99]

FWIW, Molinari in his Q&A session yesterday mentioned that he received a note from a long time acquaintance in Arizona who has seen Maniscalco play and stated "he can move the puck and is pretty smart" and also called it a "nice signing". This person supposedly has been involved in the game for multiple decades so he should have some ability to identify talent.

 

[Shrimper]

So in 2/3 years our D could be;

Dumo-Marino
POJ-Maniscalco
Pettersson-?

Nice

 

[Randy Butternubs]

So in 2/3 years our D could be;

Dumo-Marino
POJ-Maniscalco
Pettersson-?

Nice

? = Reilly

But recall our proposed line up that had Harringon, Morrow, Dumoulin, Despres, Pouliot, etc?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm hoping Dumo's ankle injury doesn't f*** with him like Whitney's heel stuff did. He looked pretty uncharacteristically terrible this season, particularly against the Habs, which followed a 5 month break to rest/recoup/rehab. I'm pretty high key worried, and will be paying close attention to the dude this coming season.

 

[Turin]

So in 2/3 years our D could be;

Dumo-Marino
POJ-Maniscalco
Pettersson-?

Nice

As of right now there’s very little reason to think that’s particularly nice.

 

[Peat]

? = Reilly

But recall our proposed line up that had Harringon, Morrow, Dumoulin, Despres, Pouliot, etc?

Yup. There's plenty of guys who've got chances but in three years I think things will look very different. Come the start of next season, Dumoulin and Letang are probably the only two guys who were here three years ago.

Marino is the only guy I feel confident projecting as being on our line-up in three years.

 

[PensandCaps]

F***ING RIGHT, HELL YEAH

That's an awesome get for the Penguins. They just replaced Addison essentially.

doubt it. lol

 

[PensandCaps]

Pens don't really sign good college FAs.

Sheary is the best that they've signed, lol.

ZAR is a nothing player.

They do draft/trade for college players pretty well.

 

[OswaldBates]

Pens don't really sign good college FAs.

Sheary is the best that they've signed, lol.

ZAR is a nothing player.

Delete

 

[OswaldBates]

Yeah That John Marino is really a dog

 

[PensandCaps]

Yeah That John Marino is really a dog

They traded for him