Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Ryder71]

Such a steel trap that you remember Jason Zucker has had 2 "injury plagued" seasons in his 10+ years in the NHL

He should be nicknamed the infirmary

We are lucky to have you here

IN A Pittsburgh Penguins uniform he missed a considerable amount of games, and as he ages and considering the manner by which he plays it's logical to conclude that more long term injuries will undoubtedly be in his future.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

IN A Pittsburgh Penguins uniform he missed a considerable amount of games, and as he ages and considering the manner by which he plays it's logical to conclude that more long term injuries will undoubtedly be in his future.

You can play in this league on what ifs

If that was the case this board would be at least 20 less posters who told me they guaranteed Geno wouldn't play 60 games last season

 

[Ryder71]

You can play in this league on what ifs

If that was the case this board would be at least 20 less posters who told me they guaranteed Geno wouldn't play 60 games last season

And I would bet that next year he will not play 82 games. I would probably bet he wouldn't even play 70 games next year. Again that was a one-off. Jason Zucker will not be a Pittsburgh Penguin next year. So we won't have to worry about the what if because KD won't require his Services any longer. KD will make the smart and wise decision to bypass a player of his age and injury history here in Pittsburgh.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I am very pessimistic that they might consider moving Rust. If it is strictly up to Sullivan and Rust, he is probably retiring here. Dubas is the only guy who was not here who could conceivably change things. BUT, Dubas is more likely to continue to hand out NMCs and NTCs like candy, as opposed to actually talking with Rust to see where he might have interest in playing if not here.

For the record, Toronto has 10 players with some form of an NTC or NMC clause.

Auston Matthews - Signed by Dubas, NMC is only for 2023-24 season
John Tavares - Signed by Dubas, full NMC
Mitchell Marner - Signed by Dubas, NMC is only for two seasons
William Nylander - Signed by Dubas, NTC is list of 10 teams for only one season
Calle Jarnkrok - Signed by Dubas, NTC is list of 10 teams for duration of contract
Morgan Rielly - Signed by Dubas, full NMC until final two years, which is list of 10 teams
TJ Brodie - Signed by Dubas, 10 team no trade
Jake McCabe - Signed by Chicago, acquired by Toronto
Matt Murray - Signed by Ottawa, acquired by Toronto
Jake Muzzin - Signed by Dubas, 10 team no trade.

The contracts are a lot less immovable than it would appear. Even Nylander has just a 10-team no trade list.

 

[Ryder71]

Except when it comes to your opinion on Hextall…

“I’ll give him until after the deadline before criticizing him.”

Context is important, facts are important. I done told you 74 and a half times and if that's hyperbole it's only so slightly, that this team was a mess before he ever arrived in Pittsburgh. The mess was here so I'm not sure if I'm going to hold his feet to the fire considering the Pittsburgh Penguins soiled the bed on multiple occasions prior to his arrival against teams on paper that were vastly inferior. You can't fault him for something that happened prior to his arrival. Keep in mind in the previous year we got RR at the deadline, that was a brilliant trade!

 

[Freeptop]

You might not be expecting them to go on a cup run but I can sure as shit guarantee you Dubas, Sullivan, Crosby, Malkin and Letang do and that's all that matters.

Many of you dont believe in them and that's fine but Id rather put my money behind those guys then some guys sitting on their laptops and iphones doubting them (me included)

It will definitely be interesting and that what FSG has hired Dubas to do.............compete now

Hey, I'd love to be proven wrong! I'm just trying to set realistic expectations for myself. 30 teams don't make it to the Cup Final. Chances are pretty high the Pens will be one of those 30 teams.

I will note that "compete" doesn't mean they have to go on a Cup run. I'm expecting them to do their best to make a return to the playoffs, and try to win at least a round or two. But a Cup run generally requires a decent amount of luck on top of having a good team, and I'm pretty sure '16 and '17 used up the Pens' luck for a bit

And to that end - running back mostly the same team doesn't seem to be called for here, given that this was the first time they failed to make the playoffs in a very long time. They at least seemed to run out of gas towards the end, which should not be a surprise for the League's oldest team. So saying that I want them to let go a bunch of 30+ year-olds in favor of younger players is in line with trying to be a competitive team, after all.

 

[vikingGoalie]

Context is important, facts are important. I done told you 74 and a half times and if that's hyperbole it's only so slightly, that this team was a mess before he ever arrived in Pittsburgh. The mess was here so I'm not sure if I'm going to hold his feet to the fire considering the Pittsburgh Penguins soiled the bed on multiple occasions prior to his arrival against teams on paper that were vastly inferior. You can't fault him for something that happened prior to his arrival. Keep in mind in the previous year we got RR at the deadline, that was a brilliant trade!

 

[Ryder71]

View attachment 718324

That doesn't excuse the way this team performed in the previous few playoffs. They don't get a pass, there is no quarter given they failed us miserably! And they lost to teams who were decided underdogs in each occasion. You can't blame that on sweet Ronnie now can you?

The biggest villains if we're going to be honest about it are the coach who never adjusted, the goaltending which against the Islanders that one year was historically abysmal, and yes your precious core! Those are the reasons we have failed, you need to accept it! It's no more complicated than that.

 

[Ryder71]

What's horrifying to me, is that the coach, as of now the goaltender and your precious core are all still here. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was. I just hope that getting one of the greatest hockey Minds in the organization will somehow change our trajectory and ultimately are fate. Well, he'll have his work cut out.

 

[vodeni]

It wasn't even just the injuries, either. He was extremely underwhelming when healthy.

I know it's like... borderline sacrilege to say this but even this past year he went through long droughts of general ham-fisted non-production. I appreciated his raw effort throughout but with a guy as beat down as he is year to year the last half decade that kind of effort is a double edged sword moving forward.

from what I remember he kind of reverted to meh at the end when we needed someone, anyone to step up, what stuck in my memory that he was late for any serious forechecking effort, I thought he may had been injured...maybe I just dreamt this whole shit up...

 

[vodeni]

Rust is probably gonna bounce back and be one of our best shooters again, while also being one of our best PKers and ES defenders. Not ready to give up on him yet, just because he was a few points shy of what he should have had.

Idk Garland's LW history but I doubt it'd be an issue. Didn't seem to be when he tore us apart up the LW 30 seconds into our matchup. Most wingers now are expected to be able to do both.
But even if it is a problem, you can just do this:

Rakell - Sid - Garland
Guentzel - Malkin - Rust

Or swap the RW'ers. Everyone plays their natural positions.

Garland is similar to Zucker in that he's an excellent forechecker and skates his ass off every night. Despite the lack of size, he'll come out with the puck a lot because of that will power.
Yeah, he's not gonna be as good of a net-front, but he's a much better passer and creates chances better with lateral skating and patience.
He'd also gonna skate us out of our zone and make effective zone entries a lot.

We don't have a player like him, outside of stature. He's a play driver. A non-slacker. He'll be similar to Hornqvist in that he'll be one of the only guys giving 100% on those sleepy nights for the rest of the team.

agree with a lot, but don't count on him to provide defensive plays...thats under him now that he is superstar

 

[Pens x]

That doesn't excuse the way this team performed in the previous few playoffs. They don't get a pass, there is no quarter given they failed us miserably! And they lost to teams who were decided underdogs in each occasion. You can't blame that on sweet Ronnie now can you?

The biggest villains if we're going to be honest about it are the coach who never adjusted, the goaltending which against the Islanders that one year was historically abysmal, and yes your precious core! Those are the reasons we have failed, you need to accept it! It's no more complicated than that.

Previous Ronny didn’t even attempt to fix the goaltending, and assembled an absolute joke of a bottom six. The top 6 was almost all here prior to him coming here. Dude somehow made the team even older and more stale - props to him because that is challenging.

Never mind him botching the expansion draft and his determination to re-sign every player over 30. The dude inherited a mess, but somehow made it worse.

But yet, you still defend that clown.

 

[Ryder71]

Previous Ronny didn’t even attempt to fix the goaltending, and assembled an absolute joke of a bottom six. The top 6 was almost all here prior to him coming here. Dude somehow made the team even older and more stale - props to him because that is challenging.

Never mind him botching the expansion draft and his determination to re-sign every player over 30. The dude inherited a mess, but somehow made it worse.

But yet, you still defend that clown.

We agree on one thing: he inherited a mess. Absolutely correct. And that's why I find a lot more fault with the pieces that were here prior to his arrival.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I thought Zucker was great last year.

That said, age and past injury history makes me reticent on giving him term. Plus we do need to make some changes. I echo @AuroraBorealis 's take that Conor Garland is a viable top 6 even strength producer if we want to do a 1-for-1 replacement at lesser term. Don't care about the LW/RW stuff. Michael Bunting is an attractive outside option that we would have to overpay for but that's July business for ya. Or getting a center like Schmaltz could push Geno to Sid's wing which would be very appealing.

I'm indifferent between the myriad different options; it would come down to cost in acquisition/cap ultimately.

 

[chethejet]

Well if Dubas values cap space, he finds a way to unload Granlund or buyout. Next get a goalie on a shorter term deal as have to think one of the younger goalies will be a future net minder. Zucker probably wants a AAV and term that just puts the Pens in a difficult place. With Rust for another 5 and RR as well, just can't have guys older in long term deals. No way Dumo is back so Pens have to spend on a FA or trade for a physical LD. Love to get Timmons if healthy and move Petry is Smith is here and plays 2nd PP D. Poehling, DOC are players who are emerging so that is a good thing. Lots of work but first couple are doable.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I know people are dunking on Rust's season but he took a major discount to stay. He still has plenty value (the Athletic puts him at $6.5M) and that's after a bad year. I expect him to bounce back next season.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I know people are dunking on Rust's season but he took a major discount to stay. He still has plenty value (the Athletic puts him at $6.5M) and that's after a bad year. I expect him to bounce back next season.

I would still explore moving him, publicly. He needs to be knocked down a peg.

But I agree. The Rust hate is overkill. Zucker-Malkin-Rust would be a better than fine L2 next year.

Let's also be honest - the Malkin persecution complex, that his wingers suck, is fueling a lot of the Rust hate.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would still explore moving him, publicly. He needs to be knocked down a peg.

But I agree. The Rust hate is overkill. Zucker-Malkin-Rust would be a better than fine L2 next year.

But again, what's the point of doing this? He holds all of the cards regarding being moved. Dubas literally can't do a thing to him. Publicly saying you want to move him as Rust holds all of the cards regarding being moved is pointless.

Frankly, trying to do that is just going to upset the core and sour them on the new management.

 

[Captain Hook]

I know people are dunking on Rust's season but he took a major discount to stay. He still has plenty value (the Athletic puts him at $6.5M) and that's after a bad year. I expect him to bounce back next season.

Yeah, I get why people are down on him but I also think he's a prime candidate to have a bounce back year. His shooting % was abnormally low last season. It was only 9.5% while he has a career 12.3% shooting percentage.

 

[ChaosAgent]

But again, what's the point of doing this? He holds all of the cards regarding being moved. Dubas literally can't do a thing to him.

And frankly, trying to do that is just going to upset the core and sour them on the new management.

Players waive NTCs.

Next you're gonna tell me that the core is going to have a hissyfit if Dumo isn't resigned. It's a business.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Players waive NTCs.

Next you're gonna tell me that the core is going to have a hissyfit if Dumo isn't resigned. It's a business.

But Dubas doing that is literally just trying to strongarm Rust into doing that, when Rust holds all of the cards regarding whether he gets moved. Rust took less money a year ago to get that NMC, Dubas trying to do that is just him not respecting Rust or that NMC.

Trying to piss off Rust into him waiving his NMC is just going to make the core mad. Dubas should see whether Rust is willing to waive his NMC, but if he says no, that's the end of it. Trying to upset your players into waiving out of anger is a terrific way to establish a toxic culture in the organization.

And before someone says "they strongarmed Hornqvist into agreeing to a trade to Florida", the Penguins had the power to do something. With Hornqvist, it was either agree to a trade or the Penguins would waive him. With Rust, the Penguins don't have the ability to do that. Rust is literally untouchable unless he consents to a trade.

 

[ChaosAgent]

But Dubas doing that is literally just trying to strongarm Rust into doing that, when Rust holds all of the cards regarding whether he gets moved. Rust took less money a year ago to get that NMC, Dubas trying to do that is just him not respecting Rust or that NMC.

Trying to piss off Rust into him waiving his NTC is just going to make the core mad.

Good!

We're too happy around here. Too stable in the tenured folks.
JR publicly rattled Rust's cage before and he played better as a result. It's easy. Go to Rossi or Yohe - give them an actual factual scoop for once - and tell them to write "management was disappointed in Rust's effort last year, and would like to explore moving him for a defenseman or center. Rust has a full no movement clause, however." Boom, easy.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I know people are dunking on Rust's season but he took a major discount to stay. He still has plenty value (the Athletic puts him at $6.5M) and that's after a bad year. I expect him to bounce back next season.

His value is exactly why I explore moving him.

I think if Rust is willing to move, you can either use assets acquired in the deal or the cap space freed up in order to pursue a top six winger who provides a different mix.

I think Rust, Rakell and Guentzel, for all intents and purposes, are pretty similar wingers at this stage. Zucker's a bit more different with his physical play. But now that Rust has become more of a finesse winger and less of a stalwart two-way player, his best trait is his offense, just like Rakell and Guentzel.

If you move him, you could bring in someone who provides a different element. A power forward, perhaps. Or a play-driver who can take some of the burden off of Geno.

I'm not sure who that would be, but that's what I would at least investigate. If there isn't something there that makes sense, you don't have to do it. But out of the three returning top six wingers, Rust is the one I'd rather move than Guentzel or Rakell.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Good!

We're too happy around here. Too stable in the tenured folks.
JR publicly rattled Rust's cage before and he played better as a result. It's easy. Go to Rossi or Yohe - give them an actual factual scoop for once - and tell them to write "management was disappointed in Rust's effort last year, and would like to explore moving him for a defenseman or center. Rust has a full no movement clause, however." Boom, easy.

I really hope you're not a manager of any people

JR publicly ratted Rust's cage because JR had the power to trade, waive or do whatever with Rust. Dubas has literally no authority to do anything to Rust outside of buying him out. Going to Rossi or Yohe and saying that is a slap in the face to Rust, because Dubas flat out does not have the authority to do that.

Dubas is not in charge regarding whether Rust gets moved or not. Rust controls that entirely outside of Dubas buying him out.

His value is exactly why I explore moving him.

Why would a player with a full NMC that can hand pick any location he goes to have any sort of value?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Why would a player with a full NMC that can hand pick any location he goes to have any sort of value?

I get that perspective, but I go back to this:



There is a strong desire for NHL teams to make improvements this year despite the constraints of the cap and a weak UFA class. If Bryan Rust is available to a team, they're going to pursue him. Because while he may not be available to everyone, the teams he is available to will know that their competition is improving with other players.