Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: November - Go home Sully, you're drunk

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I wonder what we could get for our guys should the FO/ownership pull the rip cord at the deadline and this summer.

Letang at 50% probably gets more than Brassard did a few years ago. I'd guess a 1st, 2nd, and A-tier or at least B-tier prospect.
Rust probably gets a 1st and a prospect better than any we have atm, though the bar's not high there.
Dumo probably gets similar to Rust, maybe a bit more.
Don't think we'd dare move Geno unless he stepped forward and asked to be dealt to a contender. At 50% retained we could probably get something like Rust/Dumo get. Probably not enough to warrant the revenue lost to ownership, but if Geno wants that 4th Cup, well. /shrug
Jake and Kap are off-season conversations, but I imagine they'd return really solid assets as well. Not immediate help, but futures, when we decide to part with them.
Zucker's return probably depends on how much we retain. If we go up to 50%, we might be able to recapture what we spent, maybe.
I don't see any of the other blueliners worth much. Maybe Petts and Marino get solid returns, Matheson's deal is horrendous and he's nothing special at all--and kind of a dipshit if we're being honest.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I wonder what we could get for our guys should the FO/ownership pull the rip cord at the deadline and this summer.

I can't see ownership allowing them to pull the cord. It's not even a hockey reason, but more so because they might be worried attendance will fall sharply if fans hear "rebuild" or see key players being traded.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And Zucker doesn’t cost a 1st and Poulin for a team that is likely missing the playoffs regardless of what moves we make.

I’d rather sell Zucker then add him to a 28 year old rental deal.

This is where we disagree.

I don't think this time of the season, after we've been treading water with a living corpse of a team, is time to close up shop.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This is where we disagree.

I don't think this time of the season, after we've been treading water with a living corpse of a team, is time to close up shop.

The other positive about Forsberg, for all his question marks, is he's not a wack a mole shooter. He's not going to waste all these opportunities our current wingers get by shooting at the goalie's leg pads/chest. He can actually pick his spots with his shot.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I can't see ownership allowing them to pull the cord. It's not even a hockey reason, but more so because they might be worried attendance will fall sharply if fans hear "rebuild" or see key players being traded.

I think attendance is already falling, but agreed. If any of the big three leave it'll be because they want out--exception being Letang, maybe. His NTC is much less restrictive, he's still at a really high level, and if contract talks are stalled and going nowhere by deadline, I could see him being the guy we use to get a jump on the inevitable rebuild.

If you retain 50% on Letang, I'm sure you'd have a dozen serious, big time offers at the deadline. It's just a matter of ripping that band-aid off.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is where we disagree.

I don't think this time of the season, after we've been treading water with a living corpse of a team, is time to close up shop.

We are going to be Buffalo level if we lose today. And we have won in regulation as much as the bottom feeders.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The other positive about Forsberg, for all his question marks, is he's not a wack a mole shooter. He's not going to waste all these opportunities our current wingers get by shooting at the goalie's leg pads/chest. He can actually pick his spots with his shot.

Good point. The only real question mark w/ Forsberg as I see it is his durability.

But...he's always playing in the playoffs.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We are going to be Buffalo level if we lose today. And we have won in regulation as much as the bottom feeders.

The team's been crippled by absences of key players - more than any other team in the league - and they're still 2 points out of 4th in the division with 69 games to go haha.

Buffalo doesn't have Crosby, Malkin, Dumoulin and Pettersson waiting to get back into action. We do. Significant difference there.

 

[Gurglesons]

The team's been crippled by absences of key players - more than any other team in the league - and they're still 2 points out of 4th in the division with 69 games to go haha.

Buffalo doesn't have Crosby, Malkin, Dumoulin and Pettersson waiting to get back into action. We do. Significant difference there.

I mean I guess. It’s not 2017 tho. And we aren’t two points out of fourth. We are 4 due to ROW which we suck at.

And I’m saying if we lost today. That would also give those teams ahead of us a game in hand.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think attendance is already falling, but agreed. If any of the big three leave it'll be because they want out--exception being Letang, maybe. His NTC is much less restrictive, he's still at a really high level, and if contract talks are stalled and going nowhere by deadline, I could see him being the guy we use to get a jump on the inevitable rebuild.

If you retain 50% on Letang, I'm sure you'd have a dozen serious, big time offers at the deadline. It's just a matter of ripping that band-aid off.

I'm not entirely sure I agree that the offers will be that significant toward a rebuild. Unless you rob a team blind, sort of like what Sakic did to Ottawa in the Duchene trade, the assets you're getting back probably don't move the needle all that much.

If he's dealt, it'll be to a playoff team. Which means the 1st will likely be in the 20+ range. Add in a prospect, which likely won't be their top guy, so you're looking at maybe a Poulin or Legare level prospect. IMO, 20th overall and Poulin doesn't really kickstart much of a rebuild unless you get incredibly lucky with that 20th overall and he turns into something nobody expected out of a pick that late.

 

[Andy99]

The Pens have won 5 out of 13 games…that’s a shitty record….anyone who thinks they’ve been good is a serious homer

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not entirely sure I agree that the offers will be that significant toward a rebuild. Unless you rob a team blind, sort of like what Sakic did to Ottawa in the Duchene trade, the assets you're getting back probably don't move the needle all that much.

If he's dealt, it'll be to a playoff team. Which means the 1st will likely be in the 20+ range. Add in a prospect, which likely won't be their top guy, so you're looking at maybe a Poulin or Legare level prospect. IMO, 20th overall and Poulin doesn't really kickstart much of a rebuild unless you get incredibly lucky with that 20th overall and he turns into something nobody expected out of a pick that late.

Yep. And your looking at Boston, maybe Toronto if they aren’t on his list, Edmonton (same as TOR) and Tampa.

Not a lot of high end prospects there.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not entirely sure I agree that the offers will be that significant toward a rebuild. Unless you rob a team blind, sort of like what Sakic did to Ottawa in the Duchene trade, the assets you're getting back probably don't move the needle all that much.

If he's dealt, it'll be to a playoff team. Which means the 1st will likely be in the 20+ range. Add in a prospect, which likely won't be their top guy, so you're looking at maybe a Poulin or Legare level prospect. IMO, 20th overall and Poulin doesn't really kickstart much of a rebuild unless you get incredibly lucky with that 20th overall and he turns into something nobody expected out of a pick that late.

It doesn't have to be to a contender. He has an 18-team list he's okayed a deal to. I'm sure he'd like to go to a contender, and many would kill to have him, but you take the best return possible if you're at an impasse contract-wise and he's going to test the FA market this summer. If that means dealing him to somebody near the bottom of the standings for a king's ransom, do it.

But I'm pretty convinced he'd see as big a return as anyone in recent years at the deadline. You'd have a bunch of options to choose from if you shopped him at 50% retained.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The Pens have won 5 out of 13 games…that’s a shitty record….anyone who thinks they’ve been good is a serious homer

The last time I felt good about this team was after that 7-1 pounding of the Leafs. That's the last time I saw anything encouraging about how this team was playing.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I wonder if we look to target a Center if we end up with a high 1st this year. Someone to take over the first or second line, while Geno moves to Sids wing.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I wonder if we look to target a Center if we end up with a high 1st this year. Someone to take over the first or second line, while Geno moves to Sids wing.

If we end up with a pick in the top-10, just go BPA imo. Our prospect pool is garbage, and anything outside of a goalie would be a welcome addition.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It doesn't have to be to a contender. He has an 18-team list he's okayed a deal to. I'm sure he'd like to go to a contender, and many would kill to have him, but you take the best return possible if you're at an impasse contract-wise and he's going to test the FA market this summer. If that means dealing him to somebody near the bottom of the standings for a king's ransom, do it.

Why would a non-contender (who is presumably still rebuilding) want to acquire a 35 year old defenseman? And at the cost of assets that they're using to help with their rebuild?

The only teams that would be interesting in Letang due to his age *are* the contenders. He's not going to be a desirable addition for a team that's bottom ten and still in the process of getting out of their rebuild.

 

[Gurglesons]

The other positive about Forsberg, for all his question marks, is he's not a wack a mole shooter. He's not going to waste all these opportunities our current wingers get by shooting at the goalie's leg pads/chest. He can actually pick his spots with his shot.

Weird how such a sniper has never hit 40 goals. I like Forsberg a lot, but he isn’t the player you and Soggy think he is.

He’s Mikael Granlund 2.0 with more shooting prowess.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

If we end up with a pick in the top-10, just go BPA imo. Our prospect pool is garbage, and anything outside of a goalie would be a welcome addition.

BPA is most often the best choice, I just wonder if there is a Center available as opposed to a goalie or winger(who might be the better rated prospects), if we go with the positional need

 

[Andy99]

Why would a non-contender (who is presumably still rebuilding) want to acquire a 35 year old defenseman? And at the cost of assets that they're using to help with their rebuild?

The only teams that would be interesting in Letang due to his age *are* the contenders. He's not going to be a desirable addition for a team that's bottom ten and still in the process of getting out of their rebuild.

well unless he’s willing to sign an extension with them…as a pure rental, no

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Why would a non-contender (who is presumably still rebuilding) want to acquire a 35 year old defenseman? And at the cost of assets that they're using to help with their rebuild?

The only teams that would be interesting in Letang due to his age *are* the contenders. He's not going to be a desirable addition for a team that's bottom ten and still in the process of getting out of their rebuild.

Because he's still on a short list of the best in the game at his position? He's aging far more gracefully than Sid or Geno. I'm sure many teams that are duds in reality consider themselves a Letang acquisition away from making that push to be playoff teams. Hell, Ottawa came out and said their rebuild phase was finished and they're moving forward under the impression that they're a playoff team now.

If he goes to the open market I could see somebody like Detroit offering him a massive deal. He's a very good player at arguably the 2nd most valuable position behind 1C.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because he's still on a short list of the best in the game at his position? He's aging far more gracefully than Sid or Geno. I'm sure many teams that are duds in reality consider themselves a Letang acquisition away from making that push to be playoff teams. Hell, Ottawa came out and said their rebuild phase was finished and they're moving forward under the impression that they're a playoff team now.

If he goes to the open market I could see somebody like Detroit offering him a massive deal. He's a very good player at arguably the 2nd most valuable position behind 1C.

No way.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

BPA is most often the best choice, I just wonder if there is a Center available as opposed to a goalie or winger(who might be the better rated prospects), if we go with the positional need

Yeah, I think any team probably defaults to center or blueliner. Wingers have to be that much better than the rest of the field to be taken ahead of those positions, imo.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Weird how such a sniper has never hit 40 goals. I like Forsberg a lot, but he isn’t the player you and Soggy think he is.

He’s Mikael Granlund 2.0 with more shooting prowess.

What he is is exactly what he's been billed as: a skilled winger with durability issues who consistently produces at a 60+ point per season pace despite never playing with good scoring line centers, who'd instantly become at worst our 2nd best winger, and whose skillset would complement our superstars on the PP.

I mean I guess. It’s not 2017 tho. And we aren’t two points out of fourth. We are 4 due to ROW which we suck at.

And I’m saying if we lost today. That would also give those teams ahead of us a game in hand.

Huh?

And if we lost to today, we'd still have 68 games left, and we haven't seen anything close to our best roster yet. I honestly think people who are making definitive statements about what this team can and can't do have zero idea what other teams would look like if they had around 25 mil in cap space on the shelf on any given night in a league where the ceiling is 81.5 mil.

Just for a refresher, the cap floor is 60 mil.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Weird how such a sniper has never hit 40 goals. I like Forsberg a lot, but he isn’t the player you and Soggy think he is.

He’s Mikael Granlund 2.0 with more shooting prowess.

Why does a player have to be a 40 goal scorer in order for him to fit the bill as someone who can pick his spots? Forsberg's scored (or paced for) 30+ goals on multiple occasions without the benefit of an elite center to play with. I'd say that's an indication that he's a pretty good sniper.

I'm not saying he's Ovechkin or Matthews. I'm saying he's a winger who's got a scoring touch and can actually pick the corners on a regular basis, something the majority of our wingers can't do.