Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread IXIIV: We want a backup goalie right meow

[MilesNewton]

So rumors the Pens want Jeff Petry? True or False? He has a pretty large contract with term can that even work into what they need and can afford?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

And that is exactly my point. Sullivan wants every player to play the same as GCR instead of working with talent to let them play a game that is successful in the system.

Except that's not what he wants.

He wants players to forecheck aggressively, to make the opposition uncomfortable before they get into the Penguins' zone. That creates turnovers and more possession for the Penguins, which is a good thing.

Once the Penguins have possession, Sullivan doesn't seem to care one bit how the Penguins produce offense. He likes goals off the rush, which is part of why he likes speed. But he also values a cycle game because of how it wears down opposing defensemen and traps opposing forwards.

Jake Guentzel, Patric Hornqvist, Bryan Rust and Jeff Carter are very different players stylistically. They've all worked well in Sullivan's system because they have high hockey IQ and play a solid two-way game. They're not perfect. They go cold, they make mistakes. But the effort is usually unquestioned and they're usually in the right position defensively, even if they get beat physically.

There is even room for a Kessel or a Kapanen, a more offensive-oriented player, if the attention to detail is there. And for two seasons, it was for Kessel. Then in 2018-19 he started to float more and that's where the friction occurred.

The same has happened with Kappy. Kapanen has never been benched for not producing. He's been benched only because of effort and repeatedly missing assignments. If the latter two grade out higher, Sullivan will give players a longer leash from a productivity standpoint.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Yet Galchenyuk was able to fit a role in both Toronto and Minnesota as a top six winger.

Weren’t you one of the people raging about Sprong and Kahun? Why has this opinion suddenly changed?

Let's not overstate things here.

Galchenyuk played all of 14 games in Minnesota and scored three goals. If he was such a fit, why didn't the Wild keep him?

He then played 26 games in Toronto and scored four goals. He's now in Arizona, where he has two goals in 25 games.

Calling him a top six winger is calling Dom Simon a top six winger.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Heinen had like 1 goal in his last 15 games. I think people here d rode him a little too soon, same with EFraud. E Rod hasn’t scored in a month.

Kuhnhackl? Really? He played more than 57 games one time.

Kuhnhackl was a very effective fourth liner in Pittsburgh. He left and was quickly out of the NHL. If Gurglesons' theory was accurate, Kuhnhackl should've had a solid NHL career.

Heinen and ERod are just as likely to heat up again as they are to stay ice cold.

 

[Gurglesons]

Let's not overstate things here.

Galchenyuk played all of 14 games in Minnesota and scored three goals. If he was such a fit, why didn't the Wild keep him?

He then played 26 games in Toronto and scored four goals. He's now in Arizona, where he has two goals in 25 games.

Calling him a top six winger is calling Dom Simon a top six winger.

If we are going by goal scoring Sullivan’s wing choices are going to look pretty disastrous.

 

[Gurglesons]

Except that's not what he wants.

He wants players to forecheck aggressively, to make the opposition uncomfortable before they get into the Penguins' zone. That creates turnovers and more possession for the Penguins, which is a good thing.

Once the Penguins have possession, Sullivan doesn't seem to care one bit how the Penguins produce offense. He likes goals off the rush, which is part of why he likes speed. But he also values a cycle game because of how it wears down opposing defensemen and traps opposing forwards.

Jake Guentzel, Patric Hornqvist, Bryan Rust and Jeff Carter are very different players stylistically. They've all worked well in Sullivan's system because they have high hockey IQ and play a solid two-way game. They're not perfect. They go cold, they make mistakes. But the effort is usually unquestioned and they're usually in the right position defensively, even if they get beat physically.

There is even room for a Kessel or a Kapanen, a more offensive-oriented player, if the attention to detail is there. And for two seasons, it was for Kessel. Then in 2018-19 he started to float more and that's where the friction occurred.

The same has happened with Kappy. Kapanen has never been benched for not producing. He's been benched only because of effort and repeatedly missing assignments. If the latter two grade out higher, Sullivan will give players a longer leash from a productivity standpoint.

And I’m saying this an ineffective way of valuing wingers and resulting in us not maximizing our roster.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

And I’m saying this an ineffective way of valuing wingers and resulting in us not maximizing our roster.

OK, how should the current roster be maximized? No trades, no promotions of prospects. Assuming the current NHL roster is healthy, how should they be deployed?

 

[Gurglesons]

OK, how should the current roster be maximized? No trades, no promotions of prospects. Assuming the current NHL roster is healthy, how should they be deployed?

I think entertaining the idea of Guentzel or Rust with Malkin is certainly a place we could start. Hell, having Zucker spend more than 22 of his 930 5v5 minutes with Crosby in this season and the last might be an idea.

As I said, I think there is not necessarily anything wrong with what Sullivan is doing, but I think there is a discussion to be had about him limiting certain players on this team presently and historically.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think entertaining the idea of Guentzel or Rust with Malkin is certainly a place we could start. Hell, having Zucker spend more than 22 of his 780 5v5 minutes with Crosby might be an idea.

Regardless of the line combinations, the players are still tasked with fulfilling certain obligations on the forecheck and defensively. How does that change the fortunes of a Kasperi Kapanen? Or, previously, an Alex Galchenyuk? Say Phil Kessel plays the entirety of his Penguins career with Crosby. Does that change his fate?

The guys who are currently struggling - Jason Zucker and Kasperi Kapanen - are struggling for different reasons. Zucker just can't score. He's doing everything else right. He actually may be the team's best forechecker when healthy. He's using the body. He's creating space. But when the puck is on his stick, it's not finding the back of the net.

Kapanen, meanwhile, forechecks like a demon one night and then is invisible the next. He fumbles the puck repeatedly one night and then threads a beauty of a pass the next. He goes to the net and gets a great bounce or deflection one night, then doesn't go within 15 feet of the net the next night.

How does any sort of line tweaking change their fortunes?

 

[Gurglesons]

Regardless of the line combinations, the players are still tasked with fulfilling certain obligations on the forecheck and defensively. How does that change the fortunes of a Kasperi Kapanen? Or, previously, an Alex Galchenyuk? Say Phil Kessel plays the entirety of his Penguins career with Crosby. Does that change his fate?

The guys who are currently struggling - Jason Zucker and Kasperi Kapanen - are struggling for different reasons. Zucker just can't score. He's doing everything else right. He actually may be the team's best forechecker when healthy. He's using the body. He's creating space. But when the puck is on his stick, it's not finding the back of the net.

Kapanen, meanwhile, forechecks like a demon one night and then is invisible the next. He fumbles the puck repeatedly one night and then threads a beauty of a pass the next. He goes to the net and gets a great bounce or deflection one night, then doesn't go within 15 feet of the net the next night.

How does any sort of line tweaking change their fortunes?

I’m not sure it does, but I also think as a trend we’ve seen Sullivan be notoriously one sided in his treatment of certain archetypes of players in the system or even in general (Pearson who somehow existed in Sutter’s system) that needs to be addressed.

I’m not saying Sullivan is at fault, but he seems to be getting worse at juggling lines so that the team has team success not Sidney Crosby has Sidney Crosby success.

15-16 we started every game out with Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist, but we didn’t forcefeed that line no matter what happened.

 

[Jacob]

4 years of Petry at 6 million would be a disaster.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I’m not sure it does, but I also think as a trend we’ve seen Sullivan be notoriously one sided in his treatment of certain archetypes of players in the system or even in general (Pearson who somehow existed in Sutter’s system) that needs to be addressed.

I’m not saying Sullivan is at fault, but he seems to be getting worse at juggling lines so that the team has team success not Sidney Crosby has Sidney Crosby success.

15-16 we started every game out with Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist, but we didn’t forcefeed that line no matter what happened.

If you're a coach, why would you break up something that is effective?

This year, Guentzel-Crosby-Rust has scored 15 goals and allowed 7. They have an xGF% of 55.14. They have a high danger Corsi For % of 57.69 and a high danger Goals For % of 71.43. The process is there and the production is there. Why would you change that in the pursuit of something that may or may not work?

 

[3ladesof5teel]

So rumors the Pens want Jeff Petry? True or False? He has a pretty large contract with term can that even work into what they need and can afford?

I think it was brought up by a poster and nothing else. Think we want to look elsewhere than Petry.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yet Galchenyuk was able to fit a role in both Toronto and Minnesota as a top six winger.

Weren’t you one of the people raging about Sprong and Kahun? Why has this opinion suddenly changed?

Galchenyuk's been on 5 different pro teams since he left the Pens in 2020 and hasn't played more than 26 games for any of them - I don't think he's found a role anywhere.

I was a big supporter of Sprong and to a lesser extent Kahun. But neither has done anything since, so it'd be pretty goofy to keep banging that drum. Everybody's wrong sometimes - I was wrong on a lot this offseason.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you're a coach, why would you break up something that is effective?

This year, Guentzel-Crosby-Rust has scored 15 goals and allowed 7. They have an xGF% of 55.14. They have a high danger Corsi For % of 57.69 and a high danger Goals For % of 71.43. The process is there and the production is there. Why would you change that in the pursuit of something that may or may not work?

Because every other line is drowning?

Sullivan preaches depth. But in reality he doesn’t practice it.

 

[Jacob]

Because every other line is drowning?

Sullivan preaches depth. But in reality he doesn’t practice it.

Another reason is that line sucks in the playoffs.

 

[SEALBound]

Kuhnhackl was a very effective fourth liner in Pittsburgh. He left and was quickly out of the NHL. If Gurglesons' theory was accurate, Kuhnhackl should've had a solid NHL career.

Heinen and ERod are just as likely to heat up again as they are to stay ice cold.

It's a crapshoot yes, but I would hold my tongue before I began comparing Kuhnhackl to Heinen and ERod.

 

[pistolpete11]

If you're a coach, why would you break up something that is effective?

This year, Guentzel-Crosby-Rust has scored 15 goals and allowed 7. They have an xGF% of 55.14. They have a high danger Corsi For % of 57.69 and a high danger Goals For % of 71.43. The process is there and the production is there. Why would you change that in the pursuit of something that may or may not work?

You can make L1 worse and it still be a net positive for the team.

Also, if breaking them up doesn't work, just go back to it. People talk about line changes like they need to be etched in stone.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd easily trade for Petry if you could get him for something like Pettersson, Legare and a 2nd/3rd. This D group looks awesome to me personally:

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
POJ-Petry

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Because every other line is drowning?

Sullivan preaches depth. But in reality he doesn’t practice it.

This is hyperbole. McGinn-Malkin-Kapanen showed signs of life, as did Zohorna-Carter-Rodrigues.

We also know that ZAR-Blueger-McGinn is highly effective, as is Zucker-Rodrigues-Kapanen.

The Penguins' depth has also only been struggling for a short period. This isn't a season long issue.

 

[Andy99]

I'd easily trade for Petry if you could get him for something like Pettersson, Legare and a 2nd/3rd. This D group looks awesome to me personally:

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
POJ-Petry

you’re going to pay $6+ million for a Dman to play on your third line..wtf? No please…Petry should only be an option if they’re not resigning Letang..in fact, I wonder if this rumor is out there to get Letang to play ball on his next contract lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

you’re going to pay $6+ million for a Dman to play on your third line..wtf? No please…Petry should only be an option if they’re not resigning Letang..in fact, I wonder if this rumor is out there to get Letang to play ball on his next contract lol

And without making this trade, you'll have a defenseman on your 3rd pair making $4 million or $4.85 million.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'd easily trade for Petry if you could get him for something like Pettersson, Legare and a 2nd/3rd. This D group looks awesome to me personally:

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
POJ-Petry

4 years of 34 year old Petry at 6.0 on the 3rd pair...

Not a good look at all, Emp.

 

[Jacob]

I'd easily trade for Petry if you could get him for something like Pettersson, Legare and a 2nd/3rd. This D group looks awesome to me personally:

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
POJ-Petry

What the hell? We’re giving up *assets* too?

 

[Gurglesons]

This is hyperbole. McGinn-Malkin-Kapanen showed signs of life, as did Zohorna-Carter-Rodrigues.

We also know that ZAR-Blueger-McGinn is highly effective, as is Zucker-Rodrigues-Kapanen.

The Penguins' depth has also only been struggling for a short period. This isn't a season long issue.

The Penguins for the last 12 games have been the definition of middle of the pack for basically every metric worth caring about. You can blame that on Malkin and injuries. I wouldn’t though.