Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread IXIIV: We want a backup goalie right meow

[Zirakzigil]

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Salary Cap: - Penguins Salary Cap Thread XVI: Marching to the TDL Edition

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[Zirakzigil]

This sucks for teddy but there is absolutely no reason for McGinn to be on the 4th line now.

McGinn Carter ERod, barring any other injuries

i wish Sully would go McGinn-G-Kap and put Heinen back with Carter…I think they were a better match

This is why having crazy Center depth is vital for this team. At least one of them's always gonna be out.

Hextall prepared for this by acquiring and keeping Carter.
Now we can absorb this loss.

It's great that ERod has dramatically improved as a center too.

Same I think this is your best middle six

McGinn - G - Kap
Heinen - Carter - Erod

I saw a lot of Wild fans on the trade board saying that Jordan Greenway was a likely “change of scenery” candidate. Obviously it depends on the price but that’s one I would love to see us enquire about, and might be good cover in a situation where ERod walks or Kap becomes a trade chip. BU connection so Sully would probably love him too. Maybe they need defensive help…

Where is McGinn going if not on the 4th line?

I mean, I get that his contract is shorter than Tanev's, but it's not like he's being underutilized in his current role. And this is from someone who really likes him!

He has done absolutely f***ing nothing to usurp Heinen's slot next to Geno. Nothing. Or ERod for that matter. ZAR, Simon, Big Z, sure. Anyone else, no. He's not the reincarnation of Malone.

I'd love to work something out there. I think he is what we hope Zohorna will be.

Not sure what the ask would be though...?

What are you talking about? He is definitely been better than Heinen. He has 4 points less (2 pts evs) despite 74% dzone starts. He has been better than Heinen on the forecheck as well.

This has nothing to do with contract. He has flat out played better than Heinen. He has more evs goals as well. He is better than 4th line icetime.

Heck him and Heinen have both been better than Erod in the last 8.

Yeah, I saw that. Although they mostly seem to be stressed it would be off-season and not now... and also part of shedding cap, so probably wouldn't want guys back. But interesting, even if their report on him isn't promising.



What have Heinen and ERod done to keep it lately? McGinn offers a more hard-nosed defensive presence to open up space for Geno and allow him to freelance more than either of them, and neither have looked outstanding with him.

Although more pertinently, you could have him in the top 9 at Simon's expense while the 4th line is Zohorna-Boyle-Simon.

See, I just don't agree. I'm not putting McGinn over Heinen while he's healthy.



Yeah, I'm not going to make any arguments on ERod vs McGinn. ERod has won that argument even in a "what have you done for me lately" POV. ERod's earned the nod 11 times out of 10 and 10 times on Sunday over McGinn.

But this isn't to say that McGinn is playing bad. I would say he's a great 4th line player and a quality 3rd line player. I wouldn't mind seeing McGinn-Carter-ERod. Zero issues with that and it would make me happy. But this "put him next to Geno over Heinen or ERod" stuff...lol, no.

What has Heinen done except disappear and miss like 5 wide open nets in the past 3 games?

What has ERod ever done for us as a top six winger? McGinn was better on Carolina's first line last season than ERod's ever been on ours.

Can’t we just be happy we have all of Rodrigues, Heinen, Kapanen, and McGinn as wing depth?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sounds like the Penguins aren't in on this, I'm kinda happy about that. I don't want to see this team hemorrhage even more assets on a short term fix.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sounds like the Penguins aren't in on this, I'm kinda happy about that. I don't want to see this team hemorrhage even more assets on a short term fix.

They aren't getting a Miller calibre player cost-controlled beyond 2023.

The alternative is bleeding assets for the "cost certainty" of Zucker and Kapanen calibre players...and safe to say most would rather have the Miller calibre guy for a run or two than what those two have shown here.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sounds like the Penguins aren't in on this, I'm kinda happy about that. I don't want to see this team hemorrhage even more assets on a short term fix.

Miller to the Bruins seems like the latest wing that can play C to fit a 2C home that fails there.

 

[SEALBound]

Miller to the Bruins seems like the latest wing that can play C to fit a 2C home that fails there.

I'd love it if he went there. I don't feel like the Bruins are a JT Miller away from being a major threat.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd love it if he went there. I don't feel like the Bruins are a JT Miller away from being a major threat.

I dunno. He’s been really good for Vancouver.

I honestly don’t see who acquires him and I don’t really understand why Vancouver would move him, but JR.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They aren't getting a Miller calibre player cost-controlled beyond 2023.

The alternative is bleeding assets for the "cost certainty" of Zucker and Kapanen calibre players...and safe to say most would rather have the Miller calibre guy for a run or two than what those two have shown here.

No, the alternative is to stop bleeding assets entirely and stop trading for immediate fixes.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, the alternative is to stop bleeding assets entirely and stop trading for immediate fixes.

The reality is top six immediate fixes rarely work. You acquire them in the off season or build in house.

The types of adds that win this game are complimentary and have been the entirety of the cap era.

 

[SEALBound]

I dunno. He’s been really good for Vancouver.

I honestly don’t see who acquires him and I don’t really understand why Vancouver would move him, but JR.

The best move would be to keep him until next year to see if you can right the ship with him playing a big role. If not, then dump him and offer retention. But it could also depend on the offers you get.

 

[Gurglesons]

The best move would be to keep him until next year to see if you can right the ship with him playing a big role. If not, then dump him and offer retention. But it could also depend on the offers you get.

Yeah I agree. Although rumors are that the locker room is a mess because of Horvat and Miller.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No, the alternative is to stop bleeding assets entirely and stop trading for immediate fixes.

So basically go into the playoffs with whatever we've got save a couple minor tweaks for the remainder of the Crosby/Malkin era? Or what am I misunderstanding here?

The reality is top six immediate fixes rarely work. You acquire them in the off season or build in house.

The types of adds that win this game are complimentary and have been the entirety of the cap era.

Whether a player works with a team is dependent on whether it's a good player and a good fit, and not whether they came in the off-season or the deadline.

To wit:

Marian Hossa - decidedly not a complementary player - finishing 3rd in playoff scoring en route to the SCF after being acquired at the deadline. He helped take the Pens to another level. Hossa was also injured after being acquired and had even less time to adjust to his new team....but he's a high-end talent and it was a perfect fit, so it worked.

 

[Gurglesons]

So basically go into the playoffs with whatever we've got save a couple minor tweaks for the remainder of the Crosby/Malkin era? Or what am I misunderstanding here?



Whether a player works with a team is dependent on whether it's a good player and a good fit, and not whether they came in the off-season or the deadline.

To wit:

Marian Hossa - decidedly not a complementary player - finishing 3rd in playoff scoring en route to the SCF after being acquired at the deadline. He helped take the Pens to another level. Hossa was also injured after being acquired and had even less time to adjust to his new team....but he's a high-end talent and it was a perfect fit, so it worked.

So based on that criteria Iginla was a success?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So based on that criteria Iginla was a success?

Wasn't a good fit, for hair-pullingly frustrating reasons.

As you know.

 

[Gurglesons]

Wasn't a good fit, for hair-pullingly frustrating reasons.

As you know.

I’m confused. How was Hossa a fit and Iginla not?

I’m fine paying a 1st and whatever for Pavelski. But when they come in and put up like 5 pts in a seven game series loss please don’t flip out.

 

[66-30-33]

I only want Pavs if he stays here longer then the rest of the season, f*** giving 1st for rentals. He wont be here next season though, he will command too much $$$.

 

[3074326]

I’m confused. How was Hossa a fit and Iginla not?

I’m fine paying a 1st and whatever for Pavelski. But when they come in and put up like 5 pts in a seven game series loss please don’t flip out.

Man I can't f***ing believe they played Iginla on his off-wing the entire time. Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

That team should have been ridiculous.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I’m confused. How was Hossa a fit and Iginla not?

I’m fine paying a 1st and whatever for Pavelski. But when they come in and put up like 5 pts in a seven game series loss please don’t flip out.

We didn't play Hossa at a position he hadn't played in his entire pro career.

If we push our chips in and get a genuine high-end player like Pavelski - basically a RH Guentzel who can also play center, brings solid defense, and wins 54% of his faceoffs - I'm not going to be upset that we tried to maximize this roster. Unless we try to play him at LW for some godforsaken reason.

What pisses me off is when we spend prime assets on mid-tier types like Zucker and Kapanen - guys who cracked the 50 point barrier once between them - who we cross our fingers and hope can get taken to a higher level by Crosby and Malkin because we desperately want the cost certainty of mediocrity. It's discouraging to think we used 2 1st round picks and 2 recent 2nd round draftees on these two.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I only want Pavs if he stays here longer then the rest of the season, f*** giving 1st for rentals. He wont be here next season though, he will command too much $$$.

I would happily give up our 1st every year for the rest of Crosby and Malkin's time here if it landed us a Pavelski-calibre player for a playoff run.

 

[Gurglesons]

We didn't play Hossa at a position he hadn't played in his entire pro career.

If we push our chips in and get a genuine high-end player like Pavelski - basically a RH Guentzel who can also play center, brings solid defense, and wins 54% of his faceoffs - I'm not going to be upset that we tried to maximize this roster. Unless we try to play him at LW for some godforsaken reason.

What pisses me off is when we spend prime assets on mid-tier types like Zucker and Kapanen - guys who cracked the 50 point barrier once between them - who we cross our fingers and hope can get taken to a higher level by Crosby and Malkin because we desperately want the cost certainty of mediocrity. It's discouraging to think we used 2 1st round picks and 2 recent 2nd round draftees on these two.

Nothing we spent on Zucker or Kapanen was a prime asset.

Similar packages gathered Blake Coleman, Barclay Goodrow, Taylor Hall and Ondrej Kase. Kase deal obviously involved Backes and Marleau cost a 1st to deal as well.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Nothing we spent on Zucker or Kapanen was a prime asset.

1sts are prime assets when you're looking to make acquisitions, and 2nds are good sweetener.

Or are you telling me that 2 1sts and 2 recent 2nd round prospects wouldn't land you just about any player available this deadline? Let's see whether any go for more than that.

 

[Gurglesons]

1sts are prime assets when you're looking to make acquisitions, and 2nds are good sweetener.

Or are you telling me that 2 1sts and 2 recent 2nd round prospects wouldn't land you just about any player available this deadline?

Sure. But we would’ve drafted someone with our 2 1sts. Who is this other recent 2nd round prospect that was moved for Kapanen or Zucker?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sure. But we would’ve drafted someone with our 2 1sts. Who is this other recent 2nd round prospect that was moved for Kapanen or Zucker?

Addison and Hallander- two recent 2nd rounders - were moved in those deals.

 

[Gurglesons]

Addison and Hallander- two recent 2nd rounders - were moved in those deals.

Oh yeah. I forgot how much of a loss Hallander was.

 

[Gurglesons]

The reality is people far overrate our prospects. Look at the impact players that have been traded at Kessel’s level.

Stone - Brannstrom
Karlsson - Norris
Eichel - Krebs
Patches - Suzuki

Addison and Hallander were never close to that level.

Hossa got Esposito who busted hard, but was still viewed as having some franchise upside along with Armstrong, Christensen and a 1st.

We simply have not had the cupboard for a big time add and I think you could argue a 1st and Addison would get us a Pavelski or Forsberg type rental, but 99% of the time those deals fall flat on their face when it comes to winning championships. Gaborik is the only recent one that comes to mind that worked.