Confirmed with Link: Penguins re-sign Derrick Pouliot (1 yr/$800k) and Josh Archibald (2 yrs/$675k per)

[Tender Rip]

Maybe I'm reading the board wrong, but the decision to re-sign Pouliot seems to be characterized as a total waste by a lot of posters.

I certainly hope you are. It is a no-brainer that we should sign him. There is no meaningful alternative with his value being shot, and retaining his rights at least means there is a chance he will come around for us.

That possibility is better than getting virtually nothing for him in a trade, even if it means we might eventually lose him to waivers if he doesn't cut it when getting his chance.

 

[Brandinho]

Do I expect Pouliot to become anything worthwhile? No, but I can't understand how anybody could argue that it isn't worth $800k to give him one last chance. Imagine the scenes if he signed elsewhere for that and finally took a big step forward. We'd never hear the end of it.

 

[Penske]

Do I expect Pouliot to become anything worthwhile? No, but I can't understand how anybody could argue that it isn't worth $800k to give him one last chance. Imagine the scenes if he signed elsewhere for that and finally took a big step forward. We'd never hear the end of it.

He won't really get a chance here though. He's not going to play consistently being the #8. Can't see him improving constantly being a healthy scratch.

 

[Brandinho]

He won't really get a chance here though. He's not going to play consistently being the #8. Can't see him improving constantly being a healthy scratch.

He probably won't, but you know how we are with injuries.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Do I expect Pouliot to become anything worthwhile? No, but I can't understand how anybody could argue that it isn't worth $800k to give him one last chance. Imagine the scenes if he signed elsewhere for that and finally took a big step forward. We'd never hear the end of it.

Before we signed Ruh and Hunwick I didn't want to sign him because I didn't see us rolling 8D. I wouldn't have wanted him as our only extra. Having him at #8 (obviously he can jump if he plays well) is fine with me though. I just didn't want to see us build the team relying on him.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The good news is that the regular season for a team like the Pens is like a half year plus preseason where they can give a guy like DP a last chance and really play him, a lot, to make that chance count.

The good news is that Sully and the Pens are very open to giving kids a real chance.

The bad news is that the Pens do not treat the season as a glorified Preseason. At least not to the extent that I would like. To his credit Sully DID cut minutes down for pretty much all of his core players. I am convinced that decision alone was one of the main reason for them winning a second cup back to back with the first. The Pens have played well over 200 games in two years, and some of the core has played international games as well.

If I had my way guys like Crosby, Malkin, Letang, etc. would play only two thirds of the season by choice. Hell the entire team could rotate to a degree. Giving guys like DP every final opportunity to finally show something or enough rope to finally hang themselves.

 

[Extra Texture]

He probably won't, but you know how we are with injuries.

Exactly. There's no telling how much we will need him during the year.

I know it's laughable to many at this point, but that offensive touch he showed in his first callup is still fresh in my mind. I'm just not giving up yet, even though the signs arent good.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You are crazy if you think his flaws are overblown. Crazy. His footspeed, pivoting, lack of offensive skill, lack of hockey sense, lack of urgency. He doesn't stop/start. He isn't dynamic. If he wasn't drafted where he was, he wouldn't even be a thought to the Penguins.

Remember, I'm not saying he can't bring his tools to the NHL level, but to say his flaws are overblown is flat out insane. If anything, they are ignored because of where he was drafted. If this kid was a 5th rounder, he wouldn't even be a thought.

I guess I'm crazy haha. His footspeed's more than fine (he can skate circles around Olli) and I think his offensive skill/IQ is his best attribute - an idea that his production at every level supports. Right up until last year everything was tracking well for him.

His lack of urgency/threat assessment has been a going concern and I think you have a point about his stop/starts too. But unless you're using last year as your only barometer, his offense is not a problem.

 

[ColePens]

I guess I'm crazy haha. His footspeed's more than fine (he can skate circles around Olli) and I think his offensive skill/IQ is his best attribute - an idea that his production at every level supports. Right up until last year everything was tracking well for him.

His lack of urgency/threat assessment has been a going concern and I think you have a point about his stop/starts too. But unless you're using last year as your only barometer, his offense is not a problem.

Yeah.. no. He can't skate around Maatta at all. He has the same flat-footed issues as Maatta does but seems to have them more.



This is all on him. Unlike a counter argument you will have (Bobby Ryan), where you could assess some blame to the pinch vs. covering defenders, this is all on DP. And this happens a lot in the zone where he's just beat to pucks and beat to the play.

I don't want to be the Pouliot hater here, but i'm okay with being honest about his play.

 

[Shady Machine]

Maybe I'm wrong, but that looked like a lack of effort and urgency, more than a lack of skating ability. He looks like he's barely even trying. Pathetic effort and inexcusable, but I don't think he's a slow skater. Not a fast one, mind you, but not Maatta pivot slow.

 

[Burgs]

That clip is vintage Pouliot. It doesn't matter that he's actually a smooth skater because he simply won't kick into high gear and move his ass when the situation demands it. He's been playing at that leisurely pace since juniors. He could get away with it in the WHL but he cannot in the NHL. Unless that changes he is a surefire bust. Especially since I think Sullivan is a coach who will get really mad over effort issues. Pouliot will not get any second chances if Sully perceives him as being lazy.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah.. no. He can't skate around Maatta at all. He has the same flat-footed issues as Maatta does but seems to have them more.



This is all on him. Unlike a counter argument you will have (Bobby Ryan), where you could assess some blame to the pinch vs. covering defenders, this is all on DP. And this happens a lot in the zone where he's just beat to pucks and beat to the play.

I don't want to be the Pouliot hater here, but i'm okay with being honest about his play.

Sure he can, and anecdotal evidence where we don't see how long Pouliot had already been on the ice, and where he had to go from a dead stop to catch up to Hartnell who already had a head start doesn't do anything to disprove it. Particularly since we have a whole catalog of Maatta counter-examples to refer to.

Pouliot has his issues, but I'll disagree 'til I'm blue in the face about his skating. That's not being dishonest about his play, that's simply disagreeing on what he needs to work on. There's a reason why every scouting report identifies skating as a weakness for Maatta and a strength for Pouliot. But maybe all the scouts are drinking the same Kool-Aid I am.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sure he can, and anecdotal evidence where we don't see how long Pouliot had already been on the ice, and where he had to go from a dead stop to catch up to Hartnell who already had a head start doesn't do anything to disprove it. Particularly since we have a whole catalog of Maatta counter-examples to refer to.

Pouliot has his issues, but I'll disagree 'til I'm blue in the face about his skating. That's not being dishonest about his play, that's simply disagreeing on what he needs to work on. There's a reason why every scouting report identifies skating as a weakness for Maatta and a strength for Pouliot. But maybe all the scouts are drinking the same Kool-Aid I am.

Do you watch that play and think Pouliot wasn't to blame? I disagree with Cole that he's slow, but I do think he has major effort/urgency issues. He looks like he's just out for a skate. He lackadaisically waves his stick at Hartnell and lets him go right by.

My issue with Pouliot had always been a lack of effort (or at least the appearance of effort). I just don't know if he will ever process the game quickly enough (not sure if it's a mental or physical thing but leaning on physical - as in his brain knows the plays to make but he just doesn't do it fast enough) at this level to take advantage of his talent.

 

[Brandinho]

There's a famous Johan Cruijff quote that seems applicable here:

"What is speed? The sports press often confuses speed with insight. See, if I start running slightly earlier than someone else, I seem faster."

I'd agree that Pouliot is a better skater than Maatta, but his ability to diagnose and react is really poor. I think that's a much bigger issue for him than raw skating ability.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I guess I'm crazy haha. His footspeed's more than fine (he can skate circles around Olli) and I think his offensive skill/IQ is his best attribute - an idea that his production at every level supports. Right up until last year everything was tracking well for him.

His lack of urgency/threat assessment has been a going concern and I think you have a point about his stop/starts too. But unless you're using last year as your only barometer, his offense is not a problem.

I don't know why you believe the bolded when a lot of Pouliot's issues seem to stem from his inability to read/react to a play. High IQ players tend to do the exact opposite of what Pouliot does.

Side tangent, but I think that's the difference between a player being a great playmaker and a player having high IQ. A great playmaker has the ability to make a 50 foot pass onto the tape of his teammate, but a player with high IQ knows when NOT to make that pass since he recognizes that it'll get picked off. IMO, Pouliot's more the former, but lacks the latter.

 

[Mattpilf]

Sure he can, and anecdotal evidence where we don't see how long Pouliot had already been on the ice, and where he had to go from a dead stop to catch up to Hartnell who already had a head start doesn't do anything to disprove it. Particularly since we have a whole catalog of Maatta counter-examples to refer to.

Pouliot has his issues, but I'll disagree 'til I'm blue in the face about his skating. That's not being dishonest about his play, that's simply disagreeing on what he needs to work on. There's a reason why every scouting report identifies skating as a weakness for Maatta and a strength for Pouliot. But maybe all the scouts are drinking the same Kool-Aid I am.

Sure his skating isn't actually poor, but it's supposed to be a strength and he rarely utilizes it. Compare his skating to Ruhwedel, that's a defensemen who can skate. When has Pouliot ever looked like that?

 

[jmelm]

There is a difference between being a good skater and truly being fast. Yes, Pouliot is a very good skater from a technical standpoint. However, he simply does not have good top end speed or that extra gear. This is particularly problematic for a guy who we want to be able to jump into the play. He doesn't have recovery speed if he gets caught up ice and there's an odd man rush. His top speed in general is average. This has hurt his effectiveness in the past and will continue to do so unless he can improve this. I'm skeptical about that because I didn't see a big improvement this year despite training with Gary Roberts last summer and being in the best shape he ever has. If I were him, he should spend half the summer with a power skating coach, but perhaps he's just not anatomically capable.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Do you watch that play and think Pouliot wasn't to blame? I disagree with Cole that he's slow, but I do think he has major effort/urgency issues. He looks like he's just out for a skate. He lackadaisically waves his stick at Hartnell and lets him go right by.

Yep, he was to blame for that goal. But Cole brought up that clip solely for the purposes of discussing his skating.

My issue with Pouliot had always been a lack of effort (or at least the appearance of effort). I just don't know if he will ever process the game quickly enough (not sure if it's a mental or physical thing but leaning on physical - as in his brain knows the plays to make but he just doesn't do it fast enough) at this level to take advantage of his talent.

I'd agree that Pouliot is a better skater than Maatta, but his ability to diagnose and react is really poor. I think that's a much bigger issue for him than raw skating ability.

This is fair, but I think it only applies to his decision-making in his own end. I think he processes the game very well in the offensive end...other than last season, anyway.

I don't know why you believe the bolded when a lot of Pouliot's issues seem to stem from his inability to read/react to a play. High IQ players tend to do the exact opposite of what Pouliot does.

See above.

Pouliot's best attribute has always been his offensive IQ. It's why he was drafted so high. It's why he always produced exceptionally well in junior in spite of not having high-end individual skill. It's why he put up 57 points in his first 68 AHL games. It's why he was looked at as Letang's PPQB heir apparent.

Whatever issues Pouliot has, offensive IQ is not one of them.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Didn't DP have a concussion or some injury in 2014-2015? Seems like the start of the 2015 season he looked completely different, not even close to being as dynamic as he was

 

[ColePens]

There's a famous Johan Cruijff quote that seems applicable here:

"What is speed? The sports press often confuses speed with insight. See, if I start running slightly earlier than someone else, I seem faster."

I'd agree that Pouliot is a better skater than Maatta, but his ability to diagnose and react is really poor. I think that's a much bigger issue for him than raw skating ability.

I think this should always apply. There is no speed unless you can make it work at the level you are playing. You can skate like Koltsov, but if you can't play at that pace, then you aren't all that fast. Straight line speed is nothing. Being able to pivot, awareness of the play, positioning, etc. all play into speed. It all plays into speed.

 

[JTG]

Pouliot's skating isn't slow, it's his decision making and ability to read a play that makes him look slow. He has no feel for the NHL game.

 

[PensandCaps]

There is no harm in keeping DP around. At worst he is helping out WBS, which has value.

 

[JTG]

There is no harm in keeping DP around. At worst he is helping out WBS, which has value.

He's waiver eligible. He'll be helping out another team sooner rather than later if we don't trade him.

 

[ColePens]

He's waiver eligible. He'll be helping out another team sooner rather than later if we don't trade him.

Let's face reality... he does not have any value. The best value he has is to figure out his game and make himself an NHL player this year. He'll need a little luck and a lot of passion/heart.

 

[Nakawick]

I hope Pouliot can step forward. He really showed some flashed early and it seemed like his confidence was crusher at some point. He was playing reasonably well before Schultz took his spot. Maybe this is the year for him to become a steady NHLer, would be huge for him and for the Pens.