Confirmed with Link: Penguins re-sign Derrick Pouliot (1 yr/$800k) and Josh Archibald (2 yrs/$675k per)

[Peat]

Most here don't seem too optimistic. Why would managment sign him to a one way if they are, as here, not optomistic? I know its just a one year deal but still.

Well it's not their money and it keeps the cap hit low.

I don't know what the management are thinking tbh but this contract seems so standard that I can't really draw anything from it.

I think his flaws have been severely overblown. His most pressing problem was his urgency under pressure, and that didn't seem to be a dealbreaking issue by Spring 2016. Then he got injured early last season until December, and his problems became compounded.

I guess I'm more optimistic about a turnaround than most. Last season was the only season where Pouliot didn't progress. I don't see any reason why he couldn't become a bottom pairing defenseman for us next year if he returns to the form he showed before we acquired Schultz.

I think by now his biggest flaw seems to be confidence. Too easily knocked when things were going wrong, maybe a little too complacent when things were going right. Which probably feeds into urgency under pressure.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I have a hard time pointing to his specific flaws because I honestly don't remember what his strengths even are. At his best, he's been a very vanilla #6 with no standout traits to speak of. Which was fine. It was progress. Then last year he was a very vanilla player but with seemingly catastrophic flaws in decision making, skating, and coverage, which directly led to goals against on a regular basis.

If he can wipe last year away and get back to where he was before we traded for Schultz, he can be a decent bottom pairing guy. That said, I think Ruhwedel is better than even that version of Pouliot.

 

[Burgs]

He doesn't tear up the AHL, either. Not at all.

Exactly. It's not like he's been an irreplaceable PP quarterback on the Baby Pens. His ppg has dropped every year down in Wilkes-Barre. From 0.77 as a rookie to 0.62 his second year to 0.50 last year.

Of course he started last season on the Baby Pens with a 9 game pointless streak after a lower-body injury cost him the first quarter of the season and likely wiped out most of the conditioning work he had put in over the summer.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think his flaws have been severely overblown. His most pressing problem was his urgency under pressure, and that didn't seem to be a dealbreaking issue by Spring 2016. Then he got injured early last season until December, and his problems became compounded.

I guess I'm more optimistic about a turnaround than most. Last season was the only season where Pouliot didn't progress. I don't see any reason why he couldn't become a bottom pairing defenseman for us next year if he returns to the form he showed before we acquired Schultz.

That's kind of part of the problem. A player taken 8th overall -- and not to be a broken record, but taken ahead of players rated ahead of him like Trouba, Forsberg, etc. -- shouldn't be looked as "fine" if he ends up being a Matt Hunwick equivalent for us.

Is the bar set so low that we'd consider Pouliot a success if he could turn into a dime-a-dozen #6 defenseman?

 

[Ogrezilla]

That's kind of part of the problem. A player taken 8th overall -- and not to be a broken record, but taken ahead of players rated ahead of him like Trouba, Forsberg, etc. -- shouldn't be looked as "fine" if he ends up being a Matt Hunwick equivalent for us.

Is the bar set so low that we'd consider Pouliot a success if he could turn into a dime-a-dozen #6 defenseman?

At this point, his draft position doesn't mean anything. Once a guy gets into the system, it never should.

 

[Peat]

That's kind of part of the problem. A player taken 8th overall -- and not to be a broken record, but taken ahead of players rated ahead of him like Trouba, Forsberg, etc. -- shouldn't be looked as "fine" if he ends up being a Matt Hunwick equivalent for us.

Is the bar set so low that we'd consider Pouliot a success if he could turn into a dime-a-dozen #6 defenseman?

Yes and no. Its certainly not what you wanted but its more than you get from some.

Although bottom pairing dman this year doesn't imply that's all he ever could be.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

At this point, his draft position doesn't mean anything. Once a guy gets into the system, it never should.

For me, it's less about draft position and more about who was passed over to reach for him. Maybe it's not fair to him, but I'm always going to hold him to the standard of the players who Shero *should* have taken instead of him.

And again, maybe it's not how it should be, but typically anyone taken in the top ten has higher expectations than other players. You don't expect them to "max out" as a bottom pairing guy/fourth line forward.

 

[Ogrezilla]

For me, it's less about draft position and more about who was passed over to reach for him. Maybe it's not fair to him, but I'm always going to hold him to the standard of the players who Shero *should* have taken instead of him.

And again, maybe it's not how it should be, but typically anyone taken in the top ten has higher expectations than other players. You don't expect them to "max out" as a bottom pairing guy/fourth line forward.

Sure. I get it with the disappointment. I'm right with you. But none of that matters at this point in terms of what kind of player he is or may become. I hope Sully, JR, Guerin, and anyone else involved are just looking at him as they would any other player. Treat him the same way they treat Ruhwedel going in to this season.

 

[Gurglesons]

For me, it's less about draft position and more about who was passed over to reach for him. Maybe it's not fair to him, but I'm always going to hold him to the standard of the players who Shero *should* have taken instead of him.

And again, maybe it's not how it should be, but typically anyone taken in the top ten has higher expectations than other players. You don't expect them to "max out" as a bottom pairing guy/fourth line forward.

No reason to think this way.

If you do I'm sure you're just frothing at the mouth for what we did to acquire Ryan Reaves.

 

[Gurglesons]

He doesn't tear up the AHL, either. Not at all.

I think a lot of that is them making him work on his defensive side. It's kind of weird, they basically fully catered to Schultz playing him low minutes in offensive situations and then they expect Pouliot to be a jack of all trades. Whatever, they should honestly just trade him and let him try to earn a spot on a defense that is solidified like ours.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No reason to think this way.

If you do I'm sure you're just frothing at the mouth for what we did to acquire Ryan Reaves.

There's no comparison between expectations for an 8th overall pick and a 31st overall pick.

One, you expect to turn into a top six forward/top four defender. The other is a massive long shot to ever becoming an NHL regular.

 

[Gurglesons]

There's no comparison between expectations for an 8th overall pick and a 31st overall pick.

One, you expect to turn into a top six forward/top four defender. The other is a massive long shot to ever becoming an NHL regular.

I guess? I mean in the top ten picks in 2012 there are two defenders that have played less games in the NHL than Pooh. Obviously, you wish you would've picked a Trouba or Ceci, but you have to realize a lot of teams picking in the top ten have terrible rosters that allow them to quickly insert those defensemen in their top six.

Since Pouliot has been acquired we've had at least six defensemen that would be playing over him on any team outside of 2016 when Pooh looked his best and we went and acquired Schultz and immediately started playing him over Pooh.

I'm interested how much people would beat up on Pouliot if he and Maatta were drafted in opposite spots. We'd probably just be hoping he panned out as a bottom six.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

That's kind of part of the problem. A player taken 8th overall -- and not to be a broken record, but taken ahead of players rated ahead of him like Trouba, Forsberg, etc. -- shouldn't be looked as "fine" if he ends up being a Matt Hunwick equivalent for us.

Is the bar set so low that we'd consider Pouliot a success if he could turn into a dime-a-dozen #6 defenseman?

Most defensemen don't peak in their first full rookie year at age 23...

But Pouliot's draft position skews how some perceive him, and I don't think it should at this point. Right now, we should only look at him as a prospect who could fill a useful role for us here. Drop all the baggage that comes with him being a top 10 pick and just hope he can walk for now rather than expecting him to run based on how we secured his rights half a decade ago.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Most defensemen don't peak in their first full rookie year at age 23...

But Pouliot's draft position skews how some perceive him, and I don't think it should at this point. Right now, we should only look at him as a prospect who could fill a useful role for us here. Drop all the baggage that comes with him being a top 10 pick and just hope he can walk for now rather than expecting him to run based on how we secured his rights half a decade ago.

He seems to be regressing, though. It's one thing if he was dominating the AHL, and kept getting better each year. But his totals are actually getting worse. He had a better season in the AHL at 21 than he did this past year at 23.

And that's a big part of me having very little faith in him panning out. It's not like each year in the AHL he just keeps getting better and better but there's no spot on the NHL roster, so he hasn't played much. It's a case of him not showing any signs that Pouliot at age 23 is a better, more complete player than Pouliot at age 20 was.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He seems to be regressing, though. It's one thing if he was dominating the AHL, and kept getting better each year. But his totals are actually getting worse. He had a better season in the AHL at 21 than he did this past year at 23.

And that's a big part of me having very little faith in him panning out. It's not like each year in the AHL he just keeps getting better and better but there's no spot on the NHL roster, so he hasn't played much. It's a case of him not showing any signs that Pouliot at age 23 is a better, more complete player than Pouliot at age 20 was.

Do you not agree that he made progress every year between his draft year and '15-'16? Yes he regressed last year, but from what I've seen, last year was the only season where he failed to make strides.

Until I see a good reason not to, I'm just treating last year as the aberration it is so far instead of the new norm.

 

[Gurglesons]

He seems to be regressing, though. It's one thing if he was dominating the AHL, and kept getting better each year. But his totals are actually getting worse. He had a better season in the AHL at 21 than he did this past year at 23.

And that's a big part of me having very little faith in him panning out. It's not like each year in the AHL he just keeps getting better and better but there's no spot on the NHL roster, so he hasn't played much. It's a case of him not showing any signs that Pouliot at age 23 is a better, more complete player than Pouliot at age 20 was.

That's kind of false. He got injured was thrown up and down between the NHL and AHL which he admitted was jarring. He also put up 23 points as was a +18 in the last 37 AHL games he played this season. Patience is a thing with prospects and I'm not saying Pooh is a "sure fire" thing or even a good bet, I just think you're being very critical of a player that could actually get a good look this year and impress us versus the bait and switch they've done with him every year outside of 15-16.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Do you not agree that he made progress every year between his draft year and '15-'16? Yes he regressed last year, but from what I've seen, last year was the only season where he failed to make strides.

Until I see a good reason not to, I'm just treating last year as the aberration it is so far instead of the new norm.

Not really. He made strides up until his second AHL year. He had a pretty productive rookie AHL year, but then he didn't seem to improve much in his 2nd season, then regressed in his 3rd AHL season.

The last time, IMO, Pouliot showed any promise was at age 21, when he was an AHL rookie. Since then, his game (including his bread and butter offensive game) seems to have stagnated at best, regressed at worst.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Not really. He made strides up until his second AHL year. He had a pretty productive rookie AHL year, but then he didn't seem to improve much in his 2nd season, then regressed in his 3rd AHL season.

The last time, IMO, Pouliot showed any promise was at age 21, when he was an AHL rookie. Since then, his game (including his bread and butter offensive game) seems to have stagnated at best, regressed at worst.

I guess we just disagree there. I don't think we can look at '15-'16 as any type of regression when he was playing and producing like a good bottom pairing NHL defenseman in the spring of that season, regardless of whether his AHL numbers took a slight dip.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That's kind of false. He got injured was thrown up and down between the NHL and AHL which he admitted was jarring. He also put up 23 points as was a +18 in the last 37 AHL games he played this season. Patience is a thing with prospects and I'm not saying Pooh is a "sure fire" thing or even a good bet, I just think you're being very critical of a player that could actually get a good look this year and impress us versus the bait and switch they've done with him every year outside of 15-16.

Here's the thing. Even if everything you say is true, why do you believe the bolded will happen? As I said already, if everyone is healthy then Pouliot is #8 on the depth chart. He's not going to get top six minutes every game, he's going to have the same sort of ice time as last year -- healthy scratch for half a dozen games, then bottom pairing minutes for a couple of games, before going back to the press box for the next three.

If he couldn't find his game because of constantly being in and out of the lineup last year, what makes you believe this year will be any different for him?

 

[Gurglesons]

Here's the thing. Even if everything you say is true, why do you believe the bolded will happen? As I said already, if everyone is healthy then Pouliot is #8 on the depth chart. He's not going to get top six minutes every game, he's going to have the same sort of ice time as last year -- healthy scratch for half a dozen games, then bottom pairing minutes for a couple of games, before going back to the press box for the next three.

If he couldn't find his game because of constantly being in and out of the lineup last year, what makes you believe this year will be any different for him?

Waiver elgibility, the lack of fringe AHL/NHL players like Wars, Guance, etc., lack of players like Daley, Hainsey, etc. If one of top six players goes down early, I could easily see Pouliot being inserted in for him.

 

[JTG]

Most here don't seem too optimistic. Why would managment sign him to a one way if they are, as here, not optomistic? I know its just a one year deal but still.

He has to play in the NHL this season. He's waiver eligible.

 

[Jacob]

I think I'm not going to read too much into two-way versus one-way considering how much guys like Tinordi and Summers - who are destined to spend most of the year in the A - reportedly make on the minor league side of their two-way deals.

 

[ColePens]

I think his flaws have been severely overblown. His most pressing problem was his urgency under pressure, and that didn't seem to be a dealbreaking issue by Spring 2016. Then he got injured early last season until December, and his problems became compounded.

I guess I'm more optimistic about a turnaround than most. Last season was the only season where Pouliot didn't progress. I don't see any reason why he couldn't become a bottom pairing defenseman for us next year if he returns to the form he showed before we acquired Schultz.

You are crazy if you think his flaws are overblown. Crazy. His footspeed, pivoting, lack of offensive skill, lack of hockey sense, lack of urgency. He doesn't stop/start. He isn't dynamic. If he wasn't drafted where he was, he wouldn't even be a thought to the Penguins.

Remember, I'm not saying he can't bring his tools to the NHL level, but to say his flaws are overblown is flat out insane. If anything, they are ignored because of where he was drafted. If this kid was a 5th rounder, he wouldn't even be a thought.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Waiver elgibility, the lack of fringe AHL/NHL players like Wars, Guance, etc., lack of players like Daley, Hainsey, etc. If one of top six players goes down early, I could easily see Pouliot being inserted in for him.

I still have him as our #8, but we'll see.

He has to play in the NHL this season. He's waiver eligible.

Nah, he could very well just sit and eat nachos for a while.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You are crazy if you think his flaws are overblown. Crazy. His footspeed, pivoting, lack of offensive skill, lack of hockey sense, lack of urgency. He doesn't stop/start. He isn't dynamic. If he wasn't drafted where he was, he wouldn't even be a thought to the Penguins.

Remember, I'm not saying he can't bring his tools to the NHL level, but to say his flaws are overblown is flat out insane. If anything, they are ignored because of where he was drafted. If this kid was a 5th rounder, he wouldn't even be a thought.

Agreed. Honestly, can you point to a strength he showed this year? I can't. He ranged from pretty bad to atrocious in every way this year. I hope it was an aberration, because it was awful. You're right, if he's a 5th rounder, he's looking for an AHL job somewhere right now.