Rumor: Penguins have offers for one of their goalies

[CheckingLineCenter]

McCann is weird. He’s showed me enough where I think it’s possible he’d be a dominant 3C if you gave him good wingers. His best hockey was at C this year, and it was really good.

Or maybe he’s able to grow like Burakovsky did in a consistent top 6 wing role. I also think it’s possible he could regress to relatively useless speedy 4th liner.

Just hard to know with him but I wouldn’t fault teams for rolling the dice. I think the big thing is gonna be giving him a defined role and decent linemates.

 

[chethejet]

Describe elite and I will agree Murray is not in that category. At least not yet. But clearly, teams needing upgrades and goalies who have won cups are far more preferable than those bantered around on this board. Remind me again how good a team the ones who were bounced in the playoff round ie Calgary and Edmonton that goal tending was not a major issue. AV's are close but can they win a cup with who they have now? Maybe. Carolina, Vancouver and I could go on, but getting over the hump will take very good goal tending.

 

[Lemieuxs]

I believe Murray was elite; has the potential to be elite again. He did not look the same after his father passed away. I think mentally he was understandably rattled. Whoever gets him is going to get a bargain.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

There's no hurt in asking, but if Rutherford really is holding out for a 1st round pick for Murray, he's off the reservation

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's no hurt in asking, but if Rutherford really is holding out for a 1st round pick for Murray, he's off the reservation

Or maybe GMs don't have the long term memory loss problems that fans have, and they realize that Murray is a good young goalie with a great resume coming off a bad year.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Or maybe GMs don't have the long term memory loss problems that fans have, and they realize that Murray is a good young goalie with a great resume coming off a bad year.

so that's why Murray has already been moved for a 1st round pick right?

seems like most GMs are on my train of thought than yours and Rutherfords

 

[Empoleon8771]

so that's why Murray has already been moved for a 1st round pick right?

seems like most GMs are on my train of thought than yours and Rutherfords

That is downright nonsensical logic.

I guess Strome doesn't have the value of a 1st either, because him not being traded for a 1st yet shows he doesn't have the value of a 1st. I'll give you a 3rd for Strome and it's fair because if he had more value than that, he would have been traded already.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

That is downright nonsensical logic.

I guess Strome doesn't have the value of a 1st either, because him not being traded for a 1st yet shows he doesn't have the value of a 1st. I'll give you a 3rd for Strome and it's fair because if he had more value than that, he would have been traded already.

you're the one whose logic defied any sense. you are arguing that other GMs think Murray has a great resume and is worth a 1st, yet the asking price is a 1st and Murray hasn't been moved yet despite the asking price being established.

Who is off base here, because it certainly isnt me...

And your strome example is a whole other field of nonsense since nobody established the asking price of Strome or even that Chicago is actively trying to trade him right now

 

[Empoleon8771]

you're the one whose logic defied any sense. you are arguing that other GMs think Murray has a great resume and is worth a 1st, yet the asking price is a 1st and Murray hasn't been moved yet despite the asking price being established.

Who is off base here, because it certainly isnt me...

Okay, so do you agree that Strome isn't worth a 1st either? Because Strome has been available for a long time, so if his value is a 1st, he would have been moved by now.

I'll give you a 3rd for Strome and it's fair because if he had more value, he would have been moved by now.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Okay, so do you agree that Strome isn't worth a 1st either? Because Strome has been available for a long time, so if his value is a 1st, he would have been moved by now.

I'll give you a 3rd for Strome and it's fair because if he had more value, he would have been moved by now.

I refuse to engage in this nonsensical hypothetical. Maybe stay on topic of the asking price of Murray and why it hasn't been met yet

 

[Empoleon8771]

I refuse to engage in this nonsensical hypothetical. Maybe stay on topic of the asking price of Murray and why it hasn't been met yet

So it's a "nonsensical hypothetical" when it's a player on your team, but it's completely appropriate when it's a player not on your team?

Again, I'll ask. I'm using the same logic you're using to say Murray doesn't have the value of a 1st. If Strome had the value of a 1st, he would have been traded by now for a 1st. I'm using the Strome point because you'll obviously disagree with it, which will show your argument against Murray's value is dumb.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Okay, so do you agree that Strome isn't worth a 1st either? Because Strome has been available for a long time, so if his value is a 1st, he would have been moved by now.

I'll give you a 3rd for Strome and it's fair because if he had more value, he would have been moved by now.

Strome was never available

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

So it's a "nonsensical hypothetical" when it's a player on your team, but it's completely appropriate when it's a player not on your team?

Again, I'll ask. I'm using the same logic you're using to say Murray doesn't have the value of a 1st. If Strome had the value of a 1st, he would have been traded by now for a 1st. I'm using the Strome point because you'll obviously disagree with it, which will show your argument against Murray's value is dumb.

its nonsensical because you're creating a straw man argument. Strome has not been publicly put on the block despite him likely being available. Rutherford has publicly stated he will trade one of his goalies and has named an asking price. Bowman has done neither for Strome so the situations are not comparable, despite the possibility Strome still might be traded this offseason too

so you clearly dont see that which is why i won't respond to that dumb hypothetical where you make up a trade value to strome which hasnt been asked. your dumb hypothetical continues to be dumb

 

[Empoleon8771]

its nonsensical because you're creating a straw man argument. Strome has not been publicly put on the block despite him likely being available. Rutherford has publicly stated he will trade one of his goalies and has named an asking price. Bowman has done neither for Strome so the situations are not comparable, despite the possibility Strome still might be traded this offseason too

so you clearly dont see that which is why i won't respond to that dumb hypothetical where you make up a trade value to strome which hasnt been asked. your dumb hypothetical continues to be dumb

No, it's using the same exact logic you're using. You think it's a "strawman" because it is being used against a player on your team that you think is valuable. That is completely what it is.

JR speaking to the media about his goalie situation is absolutely irrelevant here. You're just grasping at straws to try and argue why your logic doesn't apply for a player on your team.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

you're the one whose logic defied any sense. you are arguing that other GMs think Murray has a great resume and is worth a 1st, yet the asking price is a 1st and Murray hasn't been moved yet despite the asking price being established.

Who is off base here, because it certainly isnt me...

And your strome example is a whole other field of nonsense since nobody established the asking price of Strome or even that Chicago is actively trying to trade him right now

You might want to wait until Murray gets moved to see whether you're right about the price first.

Just because he hasn't been moved *yet* doesn't mean he's not worth a first. It's called negotiating, after all. Other GM's aren't going to instantly say yes to JR's initial ask. There will be back and forth, they will weigh their other options on the market, *then* decide to pull the trigger or not.

Maybe he doesn't go for a 1st. But you should probably wait until he actually moves and we see his return before doing the "see? if he was worth a 1st he would have gotten a 1st already" speech.

 

[Chayos]

You might want to wait until Murray gets moved to see whether you're right about the price first.

Just because he hasn't been moved *yet* doesn't mean he's not worth a first. It's called negotiating, after all. Other GM's aren't going to instantly say yes to JR's initial ask. There will be back and forth, they will weigh their other options on the market, *then* decide to pull the trigger or not.

Maybe he doesn't go for a 1st. But you should probably wait until he actually moves and we see his return before doing the "see? if he was worth a 1st he would have gotten a 1st already" speech.

This move sounds like a draft day trade. If what is being said on TSN is true and Pitts will have a mid 70's internal cap , then they will need to make other moves besides Murray. They will need good cheap young players to fill roles, so prospects are also an option.

 

[Empoleon8771]

With Lehner re-signing in Vegas, I think this has some impacts on the Murray market:

1. Obviously 1 fewer starter available, so that's a big deal. Lehner was the top goalie on the market and I think that really helps Murray's value.
2. I think this also likely makes any goalie who needs to be signed this off-season cheaper. How can someone rationalize paying Markstrom, Holtby or Murray $6+ million when Lehner just signed for 5?
3. Following point 2, I think this contract makes Markstrom more likely to re-sign in Vancouver and I think it may decrease Murray's contract ask too. Both of these help Murray's value.

We'll see how this plays out, though.

 

[molon labe]

With Lehner re-signing in Vegas, I think this has some impacts on the Murray market:

1. Obviously 1 fewer starter available, so that's a big deal. Lehner was the top goalie on the market and I think that really helps Murray's value.
2. I think this also likely makes any goalie who needs to be signed this off-season cheaper. How can someone rationalize paying Markstrom, Holtby or Murray $6+ million when Lehner just signed for 5?
3. Following point 2, I think this contract makes Markstrom more likely to re-sign in Vancouver and I think it may decrease Murray's contract ask too. Both of these help Murray's value.

We'll see how this plays out, though.

Point 1 is obvious.

Point 2...ehh...Holtby is a better goalie than Lehner and will certainly make 6M or more. The other 2 (Murray and Markstrom) are certainly question marks...but Murray has a better resume than Lehner so again not sure how you compare the two.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This move sounds like a draft day trade. If what is being said on TSN is true and Pitts will have a mid 70's internal cap , then they will need to make other moves besides Murray. They will need good cheap young players to fill roles, so prospects are also an option.

Rutherford apparently dispelled that rumor and says he has no restrictions on what he can spend.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

.Holtby is a better goalie than Lehner

A few years ago, maybe. I don't think that's the case anymore.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

A few years ago, maybe. I don't think that's the case anymore.

This. Holtby isn't what he used to be. I wouldn't consider him in the top 1/3 of goaltenders anymore.

 

[molon labe]

A few years ago, maybe. I don't think that's the case anymore.

This. Holtby isn't what he used to be. I wouldn't consider him in the top 1/3 of goaltenders anymore.

At 30 years old, he's going to get a better contract. Has a better history, has won the cup, and is still a great goalie. A couple rough patches aren't going to derail his value....least I don't believe so. Guy has proven on more than one occasion that he's a beast in the regular season (both with numbers and games played/wins) and has proven it on the big stage too. He's prime for a career contract.

Lehner is no different than Binnington. Goalie of the month. We'll see trade threads for him as early as post-Seattle expansion probably.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Lehner is no different than Binnington

What is this take? Lehner has more than respectable career numbers for playing the vast majority of his career on garbage teams and with undiagnosed mental health issues to boot. How long has Binnington been in the league again? Whack comparison.

 

[ToDavid]

Lehner is no different than Binnington. Goalie of the month. We'll see trade threads for him as early as post-Seattle expansion probably.

Lehner has been solid for years and very, very good for the last two, across three different teams (one of which is not known for their especially strong defense). Hardly a goalie of the month.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Or maybe GMs don't have the long term memory loss problems that fans have, and they realize that Murray is a good young goalie with a great resume coming off a bad year.

Especially the teams with a weakness in net, that are contenders. Still think both Carolina and Avs should upgrade. Flames and Oilers . Sens as well as a non contending team. But point is, we cant just look at Murray alone and decide his value

That relies on those contenders who think they are a goaltender away from winning it all. If they believe Murray could do that, then the value goes up. Its more about the GMs than Murray. If just one of them want him they arent going to sit there and obsess about fair value. They will be thinking more about their team being a piece away from going all the way. And will pay that price to get what they want.