Salary Cap: Penguins future roster-building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[Riptide]

I'd be very surprised if MAF isn't on Vegas' roster when the expansion draft is over. I'm fairly sure there's already some kind of agreement in place between JR and McPhee. That's why JR showed no urgency in moving him despite a potentially awful buyout situation staring him in the face.

Agreed. HF is all like MAF sucks. But since Feb 1st, his stats (other than starts) are identical to Murray's (.926, 2.40 vs .925, 2.41). He ranks 9th in the league in SV% over that time frame and 17th in GAA. People point to his overall stat line for the season (.911, 2.99) and say he sucks and is washed up, yet that clearly is not the case. He is still an average to slightly above average goalie who's a proven starter with a very manageable contract.

I know we won't get much for him, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see us get something (or him getting picked by LV) - to the point that all of HF is like wtf and gets all pissy about how we "got saved".

 

[Riptide]

Even though Kunitz drove me nuts the last couple of seasons and I'm not one to ever root for injuries, Kunitz being out gives this org a big opportunity to see how well Archibald fits, and if that makes Hagelin expendable.

I'm also thinking Cole could be a target of LV, if they are looking to flip guys.

You know what's embarrassing... I never even noticed that he was out when I was watching the NJ game.

I think Cole is only attractive if the options are Wilson or Kuhnhackl. If Hagelin and MAF are there (especially if we talk about a trade with Maatta for someone they draft), that Cole starts to be a meh option. He's a UFA in 1 year. And while he might bring LV some decent futures, that only happens if he has a solid season for them.

 

[Riptide]

What kind of contract is Schultz going to get? Interested in what other think.

If it's a 1 or maybe a 2 year deal, I could see it being between 4.5-5m. Anything longer than 2 years and I can't seeing being less than 5m (and even that is a great deal for us).

After his stint in Edmonton, vs the success he's had here (both the cup and his resurgence this season) I don't think he'll bend us over on the money aspect. He'll look to get something that's fair, but not onerous for us cap wise. Even a long term deal I can't see going above 5.5m.

 

[Riptide]

I'd be more than fine with Shattenkirk and Schultz as our top 4 RH d-men without having a designated #1. To me, that's better than having Schultz and a legit #1 who's only on the ice half the time and 1 of the last 3 playoffs.

Yep, I agree. Fortunately, there is a Shattenkirk available for zero assets this year.

I just hope he'll be open to playing somewhere other than NY.

I agree with you that I do not think we need Letang to have a championship caliber blueline, and that you could replace him with a couple other players. You do not get the same high end talent, but then you also do not get the same cap hit or the 10-20+ games where he's on IR either.

And there is a Shattenkirk available this summer. But I don't think the timing would work for us to do this, this summer.

Letang is out 4-6 months. Trading him while injured requires that the new team waives the physical. That means we're already getting a reduced value on him vs if he was healthy and playing due to the questionable nature of this injury (not to mention the 10-20 games he misses yearly in addition to this). So while we could get something decent in June, I don't think it would be all that great, or even remotely close to what his value would be if he was skating and able to play. And that's if it's even possible.

But if you wait until he's healthy, you're either looking to find a way to fit Shatty's contract into the cap while keeping Letang, and then looking for a trade mid season (which would also mean taking back significant salary). Or you're hanging onto him for the entire year and looking for a trade in June 2018. Can we make that work cap wise? Would KL, KS and JS be happy with the roles we'd give them, seeing how all 3 would want PP minutes and playing time? Would we even be able to sign KS if KL was still here?

I'm not saying it couldn't work... but the odds are so stacked against it happening that I just can't see it. And that's before even getting into Rutherford and the org trading our star defenseman - let alone if they'd do it while he's on IR.

 

[Riptide]

I'm less than convinced we would have won that Cup with Shattenkirk instead of Letang. I'm torn on if we have a better chance of winning having Shattenkirk every playoffs or having Letang every other playoffs. I think Letang is a way better player. Are we good enough to win without him? I don't know that we are. We'd need a damn good return, and not just futures imo. Because Letang for Shattenkirk is a clear downgrade.

I look at it 2 different ways.

1) We would save a little money to spend on another blueliner. Which means we'd have a deeper blueline in general, even if not the same top end talent. That extra million or so might make the difference between signing someone who's a 3rd pairing guy and signing someone who's a #4 or better.

2) We'd almost certainly have a healthier blueline. Letang when healthy and on his game is one of the top 5-7 defensemen in the NHL. And even when not on his game, he's still better than most and pretty damn good. But he's missed almost half a season 3 times in the last 6 years, and still regularly misses more games then we can really afford someone like him to miss.

Is the trade off of having a deeper and healthier blueline worth not having that top end talent? If this was just a depth thing, I'd say no, and happily keep Letang. But that's not what we're talking about here. So if there was a way to make it work, then yeah I'd be completely open to moving Letang and bringing in Shattenkirk and someone else to handle the load. But I think it's extremely unrealistic, even if it could work.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You know what's embarrassing... I never even noticed that he was out when I was watching the NJ game.

I think Cole is only attractive if the options are Wilson or Kuhnhackl. If Hagelin and MAF are there (especially if we talk about a trade with Maatta for someone they draft), that Cole starts to be a meh option. He's a UFA in 1 year. And while he might bring LV some decent futures, that only happens if he has a solid season for them.

Teams pay stupid prices for blueliners and he could probably fetch a late first or two seconds at the deadline unless he has a really ****** season.

It all depends on who is there, but guys like Sundqvist and DP not showing much at the NHL level is probably a blessing in disguise right now. Guenztel and Sheary not needing protected is huge.

I just don't see JR leaving much meat left on the bone for Vegas to pick at, unless he wants to ie Hags.

I'd think Hags and/or Maatta is dealt rather than exposed though.

Which is making Cole look more and more like their best option, but hopefully GMGM and his crew see it differently.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I am pretty sure I've been *****ing about Kunitz for longer than anyone around here, and I haven't been able to stand the guy's play for years, but I will not celebrate his injury. That's ****ed.

I just wish the coaching staff and organization didn't revere him to the point of completely ignoring literal years worth of evidence that he's an awful player.

Yeah, it's not Kunitz's fault, it's the coaching staff. They make those decisions, a player can't force them to play him where he is played. It was the same with Craig Adams, the guy was used as often as he was by the coach not because he felt he should be.

 

[Gurglesons]

Teams pay stupid prices for blueliners and he could probably fetch a late first or two seconds at the deadline unless he has a really ****** season.

No, he won't. He'll maybe fetch a second probably a third. Michael Stone trade is a perfect example of his value.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Teams pay stupid prices for blueliners and he could probably fetch a late first or two seconds at the deadline unless he has a really ****** season.

It all depends on who is there, but guys like Sundqvist and DP not showing much at the NHL level is probably a blessing in disguise right now. Guenztel and Sheary not needing protected is huge.

I just don't see JR leaving much meat left on the bone for Vegas to pick at, unless he wants to ie Hags.

I'd think Hags and/or Maatta is dealt rather than exposed though.

Which is making Cole look more and more like their best option, but hopefully GMGM and his crew see it differently.

I think it all depends on what other d are made available.

Look at Minnesota and Anaheim for example. Their d are pretty stacked and they can only save a few. It's pretty likely that there will be some pretty decent d from those two teams alone.

The better that are available, Cole looks less attractive. He's fine, don't get me wrong. I love what he does. But if there are better options, he moves down the totem pole a lot quicker.

 

[Ogrezilla]

These 2nd/3rd pair distinctions are mostly nominal, I just like Cole/Schultz as a pairing. If Maatta's on the "3rd" pair, he's obviously going to be getting his share of minutes too.

Cole and Schultz have played well in this extended stretch without Letang, IMO. They'd obviously be better served with less minutes/responsibility, but that isn't something that can be avoided by retaining Letang anyway since he's on the shelf half the time. If anything, they'd be more sheltered with a defenseman higher on the depth chart who can be a regular part of the line-up.

I think it's more than nominal when you factor in who they are matched against.

 

[chethejet]

Letang may benefit from the time off and rehab. He will need to be 100% like Crosby coming back after his injury. No question the Pens brass believes Letang with Crosby, Malkin and Kessel are going to continue to be major players for the next number of years. Sign Schultz, Dumo get some luck with Olli and the Pens will challenge for the SC the next number of years.
Letang/Dumo
Schultz/Cole
Ruhwedel/Olli
FA/Hainsey
Maybe DP gets it together. Potential 26 or 27 million tied up contractually is very thight but doable.

 

[Edges7*]

http://www.wbspenguins.com/2017/04/08/penguins-sign-defenseman-dylan-zink/

any info on this guy?

Solid D1 player...good puck mover...not afraid to jump into the play...may make some recall Ryan Whitney but less of a liability...speed is a question...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

No, he won't. He'll maybe fetch a second probably a third. Michael Stone trade is a perfect example of his value.

Stone had a terrible year. Really bad comparison.

A 36 year old Hainsey with zero games of playoff experience brought back a second.

Brendan Smith had a whopping 5 pts and a real up and down season, yet he brought back a second and a third.

Cole was a big part of a cup winning team and just had a career year. He easily brings back two seconds and possibly a late first if a contender is desperate.

 

[Peat]

I am probably huffing paint here but if Letang doesn't come back right, would people consider moving Kessel as the centre-piece of a move to bring back a new number 1 defenceman? Probably wouldn't consider this until summer after this one coming, but is it something that could happen?

 

[Riptide]

I am probably huffing paint here but if Letang doesn't come back right, would people consider moving Kessel as the centre-piece of a move to bring back a new number 1 defenceman? Probably wouldn't consider this until summer after this one coming, but is it something that could happen?

What team has so many D that they can afford to give one up, would do so for a winger (who's 30), AND would be on Kessels NTC (that's still in place)? He can block a trade to 20 (or 22) teams IIRC.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

What team has so many D that they can afford to give one up, would do so for a winger (who's 30), AND would be on Kessels NTC (that's still in place)? He can block a trade to 20 (or 22) teams IIRC.

Why trade anybody period? They just finished a season with the 2nd highest franchise point totals in history largely without Letang available. You pretty much can't replace Letang with a Letang. No one is trading those. Get a solid top 4 dman through FA if its absolutely necessary.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No to trading Kessel. If you want help on defense, Hornqvist is the guy you make available.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

No to trading Kessel. If you want help on defense, Hornqvist is the guy you make available.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, if (hypothetically) Letang's going to need to be replaced, Hornqvist ain't bringing that guy back.

But again, neither is Kessel. We're just ****ed.

 

[Coastal Kev]

No, he won't. He'll maybe fetch a second probably a third. Michael Stone trade is a perfect example of his value.

No one knows how any GM values any player. For all you or anybody else know, there is a GM dreaming of Pouliot out there and is willing to sell the farm to get him.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, if (hypothetically) Letang's going to need to be replaced, Hornqvist ain't bringing that guy back.

But again, neither is Kessel. We're just ****ed.

You'd also be limited to 8 contending teams to trade with if you try to move Kessel none of whom would trade a top pairing D-man.

 

[Pharrell Williams]

how much do you guys think we will re-sign kunitz for?

 

[Shady Machine]

No one knows how any GM values any player. For all you or anybody else know, there is a GM dreaming of Pouliot out there and is willing to sell the farm to get him.

It's one thing to say GM's value player differently and quite another to say "hey maybe some GM will sell the farm to get a disappointing potential reclamation project".

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

how much do you guys think we will re-sign kunitz for?

Two years, $4M total.

 

[Shady Machine]

There is zero reason to re-sign Kunitz at this point. I know anything is possible, but can JR really be that stupid? We have plenty of 600K wingers in the system that can fill his spot.

 

[Pancakes]

Agreed. HF is all like MAF sucks. But since Feb 1st, his stats (other than starts) are identical to Murray's (.926, 2.40 vs .925, 2.41). He ranks 9th in the league in SV% over that time frame and 17th in GAA. People point to his overall stat line for the season (.911, 2.99) and say he sucks and is washed up, yet that clearly is not the case. He is still an average to slightly above average goalie who's a proven starter with a very manageable contract.

I know we won't get much for him, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see us get something (or him getting picked by LV) - to the point that all of HF is like wtf and gets all pissy about how we "got saved".

He's 29th this year in save percentage for goalies with 35 or more games played.

He's not the very worst, but he is bad. Having said that, there are teams out there with worse (like Dallas) and I'm sure someone will take a flier.