Salary Cap: Penguins future roster-building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[The Old Master]

That and he has a NMC so he has to be protected.

I new I was overlooking something!

 

[Penske]

Of the forwards that aren't FAs, I'd be fine with losing either Hagelin or Hornqvist in a trade. I've gone into detail about why I'd pick Hagelin over Hornqvist, but if a team pressed the issue I'd easily part with either of them for an asset that helps us win now as well as moving forward.

On the blueline, I'm far from married to Maatta long-term. I just think his skating's going to be an issue forever, and that's going to become more and more of a problem as the NHL continues to shift to a more speed-oriented style. You see it whenever we play fast teams, Maatta gets walked with frustrating regularity, he makes questionable decisions with the puck, or he's caught out of position. All of that is tied to his skating. I realize and appreciate that he's not had a chance to have a full, healthy summer to work on it, but I don't think it improves to the point it needs to in order for him to be a part of the core. Even with marked improvement, he's still only going to be a relatively average skater.

Two of the three of those guys (Hagelin, Hornqvist, Maatta) should not be in Penguins sweaters next year. We have a ton of space coming off the books this summer with guys walking, and we can use that to grab a couple of players as well as re-sign our guys. With moving the three guys above, you also have adequate assets to go out and land that top pairing defenseman, that scoring line winger for Geno, or that 3C pivot.

Gonna be an interesting summer. I really think this one is going to set the tone for this team for years to come. Hopefully JR's up to the task. Between potential trade targets, FAs, and young guys already in our system, we're in damn good shape well into the years where Sid and Geno will probably begin to decline.

Strongly disagree with you on this one. He's probably the smartest guy on our D with the puck.

Yeah JR couldn't mess up the team this summer but he could make it almost unstoppable if the right moves present themselves. He'll be a busy man.

 

[Peat]

They would take Letang so fast you wouldn't even have time to finish saying his name. Even if Vegas didn't want him themselves, they'd take him and flip him. I don't see how this is remotely in question.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

ya, it's a risk......but letang's injury could be career ending. and they [I think] won't be able to have their dr.s check it out. plus if we don't protect him, I would think they would assume the worst.

Moving on from Maatta without seeing he can fix his woeful skating is a risk. Exposing and subsequently losing Letang to the Expansion Draft (because he 100% *would* be taken) would be colossally idiotic. Like, Lemieux should and would strip JR of his duties that day, and he'd never work a day as a GM again.

 

[YeeYee]

What kind of contract is Schultz going to get? Interested in what other think.

 

[Ogrezilla]

don't trade Letang. We won't get nearly his value back due to his injury history. We have to hope he can play.

Not worth discussing leaving Letang unprotected. JR won't do it. JR can't do it. Even if it weren't for the NMC, he'd be fired before he could submit the protection list. It's a completely idiotic idea. Just awful. It would be the worst roster move the Penguins franchise has ever made. One of the worst any NHL franchise has ever made. And the idea that LV might pass on him is hilarious. They wouldn't even consider taking anybody else from us unless we have Murray unprotected too.

 

[Asuna]

http://www.wbspenguins.com/2017/04/08/penguins-sign-defenseman-dylan-zink/

any info on this guy?

 

[Penske]

http://www.wbspenguins.com/2017/04/08/penguins-sign-defenseman-dylan-zink/

any info on this guy?

Last I heard was that he was the 5 best rappers of all time.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I feel dumber for having seen the argument that the Pens would/should expose Letang in the ED.

But I would deal him for futures if we could land Shattenkirk. I think Letang's injury issues are hitting critical mass here. All the time he misses every single regular season over the past half-decade would be enough to warrant exploring trade options, and now he's going to miss his 2nd playoffs in 3 years.

That's significant. People who said "at least he's healthy for the playoffs" can't use that argument any more.

Letang's obviously still not a player you expose for nothing, or part ways with without getting a good, durable top 4 RH PMD to put in his spot. But I don't think he's worth 7.25 mil in cap space to us from here on out if he's going to miss this much time. Players don't generally get less injury-prone after age 30, and with Malkin being untouchable and hurt regularly too, I think it's too much cap space committed to players who aren't on the ice enough.

 

[Penske]

I feel dumber for having seen the argument that the Pens would/should expose Letang in the ED.

But I would deal him for futures if we could land Shattenkirk. I think Letang's injury issues are hitting critical mass here. All the time he misses every single regular season over the past half-decade would be enough to warrant exploring trade options, and now he's going to miss his 2nd playoffs in 3 years.

That's significant. People who said "at least he's healthy for the playoffs" can't use that argument any more.

Letang's obviously still not a player you expose for nothing, or part ways with without getting a good, durable top 4 RH PMD to put in his spot. But I don't think he's worth 7.25 mil in cap space to us from here on out if he's going to miss this much time. Players don't generally get less injury-prone after age 30, and with Malkin being untouchable and hurt regularly too, I think it's too much cap space committed to players who aren't on the ice enough.

If Letang comes back healthy you could still get a huge return in trade. He can go to 18 teams. GM's can't help themselves especially one of the best D in the league who also happens to be a righty. At least a few would get into a bidding war.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If Letang comes back healthy you could still get a huge return in trade. He can go to 18 teams. GM's can't help themselves especially one of the best D in the league who also happens to be a righty. At least a few would get into a bidding war.

I have no doubt that Letang would net a great return in a trade.

My only concern would be replacing him properly.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I feel dumber for having seen the argument that the Pens would/should expose Letang in the ED.

But I would deal him for futures if we could land Shattenkirk. I think Letang's injury issues are hitting critical mass here. All the time he misses every single regular season over the past half-decade would be enough to warrant exploring trade options, and now he's going to miss his 2nd playoffs in 3 years.

That's significant. People who said "at least he's healthy for the playoffs" can't use that argument any more.

Letang's obviously still not a player you expose for nothing, or part ways with without getting a good, durable top 4 RH PMD to put in his spot. But I don't think he's worth 7.25 mil in cap space to us from here on out if he's going to miss this much time. Players don't generally get less injury-prone after age 30, and with Malkin being untouchable and hurt regularly too, I think it's too much cap space committed to players who aren't on the ice enough.

If we move Letang we don't need a top 4 D, we need a #1D. At minimum, a player who is firmly a top pairing guy capable of playing against other team's best and who can play offense with our best. Basically, we need Shattenkirk or someone on his level to even consider it imo.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If we move Letang we don't need a top 4 D, we need a #1D. At minimum, a player who is firmly a top pairing guy capable of playing against other team's best and who can play offense with our best.

I'd be more than fine with Shattenkirk and Schultz as our top 4 RH d-men without having a designated #1. To me, that's better than having Schultz and a legit #1 who's only on the ice half the time and 1 of the last 3 playoffs.

Basically, we need Shattenkirk or someone on his level to even consider it imo.

Yep, I agree. Fortunately, there is a Shattenkirk available for zero assets this year.

I just hope he'll be open to playing somewhere other than NY.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'd be more than fine with Shattenkirk and Schultz as our top 4 RH d-men without having a designated #1. To me, that's better than having Schultz and a legit #1 who's only on the ice half the time and 1 of the last 3 playoffs.

I'm less than convinced we would have won that Cup with Shattenkirk instead of Letang. I'm torn on if we have a better chance of winning having Shattenkirk every playoffs or having Letang every other playoffs. I think Letang is a way better player. Are we good enough to win without him? I don't know that we are. We'd need a damn good return, and not just futures imo. Because Letang for Shattenkirk is a clear downgrade.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm less than convinced we would have won that Cup with Shattenkirk instead of Letang. I'm torn on if we have a better chance of winning having Shattenkirk every playoffs or having Letang every other playoffs. I think Letang is a way better player. Are we good enough to win without him? I don't know that we are. We'd need a damn good return, and not just futures imo. Because Letang for Shattenkirk is a clear downgrade.

Letang was great in his last playoffs, and it's possible we couldn't have replaced him with Shattenkirk and won. But in the interim, Schultz has also progressed from a capable 3rd pairing PMD into a top 10 scoring defenseman.

Moving forward, I'd take Schultz and Shattenkirk both playing regularly over Schultz playing regularly and Letang playing half the time. And that doesn't even take into consideration the assets we could net in a Letang deal. Conceivably, we could even do something like a Letang for Duchene 1-for-1 and keep all our young assets.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Letang was great in his last playoffs, and it's possible we couldn't have replaced him with Shattenkirk and won. But in the interim, Schultz has also progressed from a capable 3rd pairing PMD into a top 10 scoring defenseman.

Moving forward, I'd take Schultz and Shattenkirk both playing regularly over Schultz playing regularly and Letang playing half the time. And that doesn't even take into consideration the assets we could net in a Letang deal.

I'm happy with Schultz as a 2nd pairing guy, but he is not a top pairing guy imo. Whoever we get would need to match up against top opponents, because Schultz shouldn't be doing that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm happy with Schultz as a 2nd pairing guy, but he is not a top pairing guy imo. Whoever we get would need to match up against top opponents, because Schultz shouldn't be doing that.

Shattenkirk is capable of that, but I think Cole/Schultz have acquitted themselves pretty well in some crazy circumstances too.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Unfortunately, I don't see the Pens moving on from Letang even if an opportunity like the one with Shatty presents itself. We've been more loyal to far lesser players.

But a line-up like this just looks so damn good:

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Rust-Duchene-Hornqvist
Kuhn-Rowney/Sunny-Wilson
Archibald/Sprong

Dumo-Shattenkirk
Cole-Schultz
Maatta-?????

Murray
?????

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I really don't want Cole playing more than 3rd pairing minutes.

I know he's been decent when paired with Schultz, but Cole should absolutely not be a top-4 defenseman on a Cup team. There's gotta be a better option out there.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Shattenkirk is capable of that, but I think Cole/Schultz have acquitted themselves pretty well in some crazy circumstances too.

eh. Cole should be 3rd pairing, and Schultz should be 2nd. Cole might be able to be 2nd if you have a Letang level workhorse to keep the 2nd pairing minutes down a bit, but not when its a closer time split from 1st to 2nd pair.

 

[Rufus]

At this point, no team would even trade for Letang due to his relatively unknown future at the moment. I expect Letang to make a full recovery and come back, but in what shape might he be? Neck injuries are tricky business. He could net a great return if he came back and played like his old self, but then you have to factor in his NMC.

My personal opinion is that the idea of trading Letang right now is outlandish. He's such an important player on this team and would be near impossible to replace any time soon. I'm wary of a defense by committee approach because I think the weak links become that much weaker. When you have a #1 D like Letang who can play tons of hard minutes and contribute offensively as he can, you can cover up for the deficiencies of other D-men.

 

[WayneSid9987]

What kind of contract is Schultz going to get? Interested in what other think.

My max guess is 4.9.
But hopefully it's between 4 and 4.9.

http://www.wbspenguins.com/2017/04/08/penguins-sign-defenseman-dylan-zink/

any info on this guy?

I have a bit about him in the WBS thread.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I really don't want Cole playing more than 3rd pairing minutes.

I know he's been decent when paired with Schultz, but Cole should absolutely not be a top-4 defenseman on a Cup team. There's gotta be a better option out there.

eh. Cole should be 3rd pairing, and Schultz should be 2nd. Cole might be able to be 2nd if you have a Letang level workhorse to keep the 2nd pairing minutes down a bit, but not when its a closer time split from 1st to 2nd pair.

These 2nd/3rd pair distinctions are mostly nominal, I just like Cole/Schultz as a pairing. If Maatta's on the "3rd" pair, he's obviously going to be getting his share of minutes too.

Cole and Schultz have played well in this extended stretch without Letang, IMO. They'd obviously be better served with less minutes/responsibility, but that isn't something that can be avoided by retaining Letang anyway since he's on the shelf half the time. If anything, they'd be more sheltered with a defenseman higher on the depth chart who can be a regular part of the line-up.

 

[Clatartar]

The only way I want Letang gone is if Trouba is coming back to replace him. Schultz< Shattenkirk.

 

[Gurglesons]

Letang was great in his last playoffs, and it's possible we couldn't have replaced him with Shattenkirk and won. But in the interim, Schultz has also progressed from a capable 3rd pairing PMD into a top 10 scoring defenseman.

Without Schultz's absolute ridiculous December, he isn't. He'd be on the high end like a 40 - 45 point defenseman. Go look at his PPG in his last twenty. It is exactly why you don't play him as a top two defenseman, because it severely limits his ability to put up points. Letang is a better ES player in terms of points.