Rumor: Penguins Coveting Paul Bissonnette

[Zen Arcade]

He was supposed to be what Engelland ended up being, but he wasn't good enough. I remember him taking it hard that he was demoted and converted to forward, he took issue with it I think.

Then not so long after, he was gone.

Nah, not really. I'm quoting myself from the enforcer thread because I'm too lazy to basically type out the same thing twice.

He was mad about being passed on the depth chart by young defensemen who weren't drafted by the team. He was sent home from the NHL training camp and told not to bother even going to WBS' training camp, just to go straight to the ECHL.

While he was at home, he took a long look at everything and decided he was going to reinvent himself as an enforcer and a forward. So he worked hard to earn time as a winger and fought his way up to the AHL, putting himself back into the good graces of management by completely changing his attitude.

He went from being ECHL fodder to earning a spot out of camp in 08-09, before being sent back down. He was waived due to the numbers game in 09/10 and claimed by Phoenix.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Nah, not really. I'm quoting myself from the enforcer thread because I'm too lazy to basically type out the same thing twice.

It was a while ago, but yeah now that all rings a bell.

 

[Tender Rip]

I don't care one way or the other as long as the contract is cheap enough that he can be buried if he doesn't pan out well. As a charachter he seems pretty awesome though... which provides some intrinsic value on its own.

 

[Son Goku]

Looks like Washington got him.

 

[GFF]

Source?

 

[Shady Machine]

With the upper limit I just showed you at 69,825,833, yes you can fit them both in.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Nick Spaling ($2.200m)
Zach Sill ($0.550m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Blake Comeau ($0.700m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) / Adam Payerl ($0.627m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Philip Samuelsson ($0.550m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,825,833; CAP PAYROLL: $69,795,833; BONUSES: $240,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $30,000

LTIR Maatta. There's your 23 man active roster. Send one of Sill/Payerl down and call up Dumoulin.

It can be done.

You just manually changed the upper limit. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, because it is confusing, but it seems like you are trying to double count the LTIR for Maatta. You have to either 1.) get as close to zero as possible before putting Maatta on LTIR and then you can call up players up to his space (assuming you got to zero) or 2.) Exceed the cap by as close to his cap hit as possible and then put him on LTIR.

Capgeek already has it built in so when you put a player on LTIR they give you cap space for it. In the example above, you used the cap space AND changed the upper limit. That's trying to double count the space. I think CapGeek makes it confusing by erasing the cap hit rather than just changing the upper limit.

Here is the closest I can get using both examples. Of course Botterill has more knowledge of this than I do so I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that I can't see how to do it:

Example 1:

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Blake Comeau ($0.700m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,900,833; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $99,167

That gets you to approx 100k within the cap. Put Maatta on LTIR and you can exceed the cap (his caphit doesn't go away) by 894,167-99,167 = 795,000.

So in that case we can put Maatta on LTIR and then recall Sammy. The problem is we only have 12 forwards with one as Adams and we'd have to waive Sammy first to get there which risks him getting claimed.

Here is option 2:

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Blake Comeau ($0.700m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m)
Adam Payerl ($0.627m) / Zach Sill ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Philip Samuelsson ($0.550m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,795,833; BONUSES: $240,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): -$795,833

In this case we are 795k over the cap so as soon as we put Maatta on LTIR, we can exceed the upper limit by 795k. Again his caphit doesn't go away. So putting him on LTIR gives us 98,333. Then you send down Payerl and have 725k in space which is not enough to recall Dumo. You could send down Sill and have the space, but then again we have Adams in the lineup and only 12 forwards.

I really don't see how it can be done without subjecting someone to waivers.

 

[ETA]

Source?

Maybe this?

https://twitter.com/Buccigross

"Sources tell BucciMane @BizNasty2point0 is close to getting a deal done with the Washington Capitals."

 

[Corvidae]

Damn, I really think Notcraigadams would have been good for the 4th line.

 

[mpp9]

You just manually changed the upper limit. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, because it is confusing, but it seems like you are trying to double count the LTIR for Maatta.

You're not understanding it. You can exceed the cap by up to the amount of the player's caphit you're putting on LTIR.

So we can be at 69,825,833 like I showed until Maatta returns. All you have to do is be cap compliant when he does. Hence, maximizing that space.

Not sure how else I can show or say that man.

 

[PensPlz]

Damn, I really think Notcraigadams would have been good for the 4th line.

You're living in a fantasy world. Accept that there must always be a Craig Adams on this team.

 

[Shady Machine]

You're not understanding it. You can exceed the cap by up to the amount of the player's caphit you're putting on LTIR.

So we can be at 69,825,833 like I showed until Maatta returns. All you have to do is be cap compliant when he does. Hence, maximizing that space.

Not sure how else I can show or say that man.

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree then. Capgeek already takes care of the exceeding the cap thing by taking Maatta's caphit off the books when you put him on LTIR. In the real world, his caphit doesn't disappear you can just exceed the cap by that amount. You are double counting by artificially putting our max hit up to 69,825,833 when capgeek already does that.

I still think you are wrong. You think I'm wrong. Oh well.

 

[mpp9]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree then. Capgeek already takes care of the exceeding the cap thing by taking Maatta's caphit off the books when you put him on LTIR. In the real world, his caphit doesn't disappear you can just exceed the cap by that amount. You are double counting by artificially putting our max hit up to 69,825,833 when capgeek already does that.

I still think you are wrong. You think I'm wrong. Oh well.

It isn't opinion. It's in the CBA.

By way of example, the upper limit is $70.0M and a team’s Averaged Club Salary or cap payroll on the final day of training camp is $71.5M, including an injured player with an Averaged Amount or cap hit of $2M. The team places the player on LTIR on the final day of training camp and is deemed to have already fully replaced the injured player, meaning the team’s new upper limit is $71.5M instead of $70.0M.
Had the team recalled a player with a $500K cap hit prior to making the LTIR designation, its Averaged Club Salary would have increased to $72.0M from $71.5M, and likewise its new upper limit would have increased to $72.0M from $71.5M. This highlights the importance of a team having its Averaged Club Salary exceed the upper limit by an amount as close as possible to the injured player’s Annual Average before making the LTIR placement in order to maximize cap space.

http://capgeek.com/faq/how-does-long-term-injured-reserve-LTIR-work

 

[Shady Machine]

It isn't opinion. It's in the CBA.



http://capgeek.com/faq/how-does-long-term-injured-reserve-LTIR-work

I know what the CBA says. I am telling you that CapGeek already takes care of the LTIR part of it by erasing the caphit when you put Maatta on LTIR. What they should do instead is just change the upper limit to eliminate confusion. You changed the upper limit artificially and then want to also have capgeek erase the caphit. That's double counting.

I think Capgeek treats it like that in the cap calculator part because they want to eliminate confusion for users that don't understand LTIR. So they just give you how much "capspace" you can use once putting a player on LTIR. However, it just increases confusion because they don't increase the upper limit.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this conversation until someone else can weigh in. It's possible I'm crazy though.

 

[mpp9]

I know what the CBA says. I am telling you that CapGeek already takes care of the LTIR part of it by erasing the caphit when you put Maatta on LTIR. What they should do instead is just change the upper limit to eliminate confusion. You changed the upper limit artificially and then want to also have capgeek erase the caphit. That's double counting.

I think Capgeek treats it like that in the cap calculator part because they want to eliminate confusion for users that don't understand LTIR. So they just give you how much "capspace" you can use once putting a player on LTIR. However, it just increases confusion because they don't increase the upper limit.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this conversation until someone else can weigh in. It's possible I'm crazy though.

You're not crazy. Just incorrect.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Shady, I don't think he has Maatta on LTIR in his example. If you add all of the numbers up including Maatta, it comes out to $69,795,833. It is not subtracting out Maatta's cap hit.

 

[Shady Machine]

Shady, I don't think he has Maatta on LTIR in his example. If you add all of the numbers up including Maatta, it comes out to $69,795,833. It is not subtracting out Maatta's cap hit.

He doesn't. But what I'm saying is as soon as he puts Maatta on LTIR, capgeek already has a mechanism to remove that caphit instead of just allowing you to just spend up to 69,795,833. Try it. Do what he says on capgeek in his latest example and put Maatta on LTIR. It gives you more cap space. The reason he got the higher limit is because he manually typed it in. What I'm saying is capgeek already takes care of that when you place a player on LTIR. So he is double counting Maatta's LTIR space by manually increasing the max cap and then getting the space capgeek already has built in once you put him on LTIR.

In his example, he should have negative space until Maatta gets put on LTIR. The goal is to get as close to negative 894,167 (Maatta's hit) as possible before placing him on LTIR. Once you accomplish that, you put him on LTIR and get to being right up to the cap of 69million. But really you are at 69,894,167 because Maatta's hit never goes away. Capgeek doesn't show it like that though. Instead they erase Maatta's hit that you were over the cap by and let you spend the rest.

I should just let it go though because what I'm saying seems to be lost in translation.

 

[IcedCapp]

I feel like 'coveting' is a strong word.

 

[Ogrezilla]

But shady that would only matter if he does put him on ltir. In fact its closer to what the NHL does than putting him on capgeeks ir. It would only be double dipping if he raised the cap and put him on capgeek ir.

 

[Shady Machine]

But shady that would only matter if he does put him on ltir. In fact its closer to what the NHL does than putting him on capgeeks ir. It would only be double dipping if he raised the cap and put him on capgeek ir.

I agree with you 100%. You are getting what I'm saying. However, in mpp9's roster, Dumo is in the AHL. He said you take that roster then put Maatta on LTIR, send down one of Sill/Payerl and call up Dumo. So he's trying to double dip.

The roster itself was correct but you cant recall Dumo without sending BOTH of Sill and Payerl down. In which case, you only have 12 forwards and one of them is Adams.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I agree with you 100%. You are getting what I'm saying. However, in mpp9's roster, Dumo is in the AHL. He said you take that roster then put Maatta on LTIR, send down one of Sill/Payerl and call up Dumo. So he's trying to double dip.

The roster itself was correct but you cant recall Dumo without sending BOTH of Sill and Payerl down. In which case, you only have 12 forwards and one of them is Adams.

Oh ya, that's true. Putting Maatta on IR in real life lets us go over by his cap hit, but it doesn't subtract his contract at that point. Capgeek does the opposite. Capgeek doesn't allow you to go over the cap, but it subtracts LTIR guys from the total. As long as you only do one or the other, its the same effect. But if you raise the cap on capgeek, you can't actually put anybody on IR on capgeek.

 

[Shady Machine]

Oh ya, that's true. Putting Maatta on IR in real life lets us go over by his cap hit, but it doesn't subtract his contract at that point. Capgeek does the opposite. Capgeek doesn't allow you to go over the cap, but it subtracts LTIR guys from the total. As long as you only do one or the other, its the same effect. But if you raise the cap on capgeek, you can't actually put anybody on IR on capgeek.

Yes I agree. That's what I was trying to say. You summed up my many overly wordy paragraphs very well.

 

[DoktorZaius]

I feel like 'coveting' is a strong word.

Yeah seriously, this just got biblical.

 

[Waffle Fries]

This was posted in the thread on the trade boards.

Dhiren Mahiban ‏@dcmahiban
Paul Bissonnette (@BizNasty2point0) tells @TEAM1040 he's close to a deal with a #NHL team. Waiting for a trade to happen before he can sign.
https://twitter.com/dcmahiban/status/500062034118332417


The rumor is he's heading to Washington, but would they need to make a trade to sign him? We would. Adams for future considerations.

 

[66-30-33]

He's coming here.

 

[DragRiver2]

He's coming here.

Source?