Rumor: Penguins Coveting Paul Bissonnette

[stepdad gaary]

Does anyone else remember when Biz was like 18-19 and rumored to make it out of camp for the Pens as... a defenseman? Was there a worse defensive core in the NHL at the time or ever?

he was drafted as a defenseman

 

[stepdad gaary]

FWIW regarding the discussion on the last page

 

[Shady Machine]

Martin-Letang
Despres-Ehrhoff
Dumo-Scuds
Bort/Samulesson

And when Maatta returns, you see where he's at and if he can handle 20+ minutes. Send Dumoulin down if need be for a couple weeks to make the room. That's what Id do if Dumoulin is looking too good to keep off the roster with Maatta out to start the year.

Can we afford to have Dumo up with both Sammy and Bort around (capwise)? I know you don't seem to care about losing one, but I do.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Does anyone else remember when Biz was like 18-19 and rumored to make it out of camp for the Pens as... a defenseman? Was there a worse defensive core in the NHL at the time or ever?

Bissonnette was actually a pretty good defenseman in junior. I'd even say, at the junior level, he was a more impactful player than Bortuzzo was.

 

[mpp9]

Can we afford to have Dumo up with both Sammy and Bort around (capwise)? I know you don't seem to care about losing one, but I do.

If Botterill maximizes Maatta's LTIR designation, yes. Point is we have to make space for our higher end D prospects. If Martin and Scuds are here for the first half of the season, then it is what it is.

 

[The Hotch]

Biz isn't a terrible 4th liner, he knows his job and has no illusions about being more than he is.

I'd be fine with him coming back.

With Engelland gone, he'll have a role to fill.

 

[iFishyHD]

With Engelland gone, he'll have a role to fill.

13th forward/7th defenseman? We have enough of those, I am pretty sure Biz would play a bigger role.

 

[Burgs]

Bissonnette was actually a pretty good defenseman in junior. I'd even say, at the junior level, he was a more impactful player than Bortuzzo was.

Yeah he even won MVP of the 2003 top prospects game where he fought Phaneuf. Did alright as a defenseman in Wheeling but couldn't advance on the depth chart so he reinvented himself as 4th line enforcer which got him into the NHL. I think he hasn't played on defense in over five years.

 

[Shady Machine]

If Botterill maximizes Maatta's LTIR designation, yes. Point is we have to make space for our higher end D prospects. If Martin and Scuds are here for the first half of the season, then it is what it is.

No it can't be done. Not with 13 forwards. Unless I'm missing something that is.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Blake Comeau ($0.700m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Zach Sill ($0.550m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Philip Samuelsson ($0.550m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
LTIR
Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,106,667; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$106,667

 

[The Hotch]

Bissonnette was actually a pretty good defenseman in junior. I'd even say, at the junior level, he was a more impactful player than Bortuzzo was.

He was a member of Canada's U18 Gold Medal winning team, and was the MVP of the CHL's top prospects game. He knows how to play the back end, and probably better than Engellund.

 

[Terrapin]

Biz isn't quite as nasty as he was a few years ago, but he's leaps and bounds ahead of anything we currently have. Would still prefer a Peluso or someone younger and tougher, but Biz will do.

 

[Corvidae]

he was drafted as a defenseman

I know, but the fact that he ended up a 4th line roll player is bizarre considering he almost made the team so young playing defense.

Bissonnette was actually a pretty good defenseman in junior. I'd even say, at the junior level, he was a more impactful player than Bortuzzo was.

For me, it's more the age of Bissonnette at the time. He was 18-19, and that's not when that type of defesemen typically make the NHL aside from some very rare standouts. The fact that he was even considered at this time is truly a testimant to how terrible they were on D. Of course, it could have been media hype and he never really had a chance, but that was over a decade ago.

 

[Corvidae]

He was a member of Canada's U18 Gold Medal winning team, and was the MVP of the CHL's top prospects game.

This I did not know.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Biz could've made it as a defenseman before the obstruction crackdown.

His poor lateral movement was exposed when players were able to come through the neutral zone with more speed.

 

[mpp9]

No it can't be done. Not with 13 forwards. Unless I'm missing something that is.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Blake Comeau ($0.700m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Zach Sill ($0.550m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Philip Samuelsson ($0.550m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
LTIR
Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,106,667; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$106,667

http://capgeek.com/faq/how-does-long-term-injured-reserve-LTIR-work

Again, if they maximize Maatta's LTIR designation like Vokoun last year, they can. Dumo and Maatta have 60k difference in caphits, so it's about getting as close to the cap as possible, so you can exceed it by as close to Maatta's caphit as possible so you can have a higher cap ceiling while he's out. Then go back to being compliant when he returns. I.e., sending Dumo back down and/or making a trade.

Shero didn't know about this last year with the new CBA. Maybe JR doesn't either. Luckily, Botterill does.

 

[Shady Machine]

http://capgeek.com/faq/how-does-long-term-injured-reserve-LTIR-work

Again, if they maximize Maatta's LTIR designation like Vokoun last year, they can. Dumo and Maatta have near identical caphits, so it's about getting as close to the cap as possible, so you can exceed it by as close to Maatta's caphit as possible so you can have a higher cap ceiling while he's out. Then go back to being compliant when he returns. I.e., sending Dumo back down and/or making a trade.

Um yeah but they still can't make it work. That's exactly what I did. I understand how LTIR works. If you can find a scenario where it works, I'd like to see it.

The issue is that even without Maatta on LTIR and Dumo in the minors, they currently don't have enough cap space for a 23 man roster. Having Maatta on LTIR allows them to have a 23 man roster IF it's 14 forwards and 7 D as long as that forward isn't Megna. Payerl and Sill can both be up with Maatta on LTIR with Sammy up and Dumo in the minors. Your scenario doesn't work.

 

[mpp9]

Um yeah but they still can't make it work. That's exactly what I did. I understand how LTIR works. If you can find a scenario where it works, I'd like to see it.

The issue is that even without Maatta on LTIR and Dumo in the minors, they currently don't have enough cap space for a 23 man roster. Having Maatta on LTIR allows them to have a 23 man roster IF it's 14 forwards and 7 D as long as that forward isn't Megna. Payerl and Sill can both be up with Maatta on LTIR with Sammy up and Dumo in the minors. Your scenario doesn't work.

You don't understand the scenario I'm discussing. Read what I linked. And look at the Vokoun example. We can exceed the cap.

 

[mpp9]

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Kasperi Kapanen ($0.925m)
Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Blake Comeau ($0.700m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,825,833; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$825,833

Assign Maatta to LTIR and your upper limit is 825k over the cap.

 

[Jacob]

He's not an every day player and never has been. Maybe league minimum or a two-way deal.

Not sure anyone is "coveting" him at the moment.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Yeah, the idea of any player without a team in August being "coveted" is pretty absurd.

 

[Shady Machine]

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Kasperi Kapanen ($0.925m)
Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Blake Comeau ($0.700m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,825,833; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$825,833

Assign Maatta to LTIR and your upper limit is 825k over the cap.

You must have missed the part where I said to put both Sammy and Dumo on the roster. Your scenario has Sammy waived. I was never doubting that could happen.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You must have missed the part where I said to put both Sammy and Dumo on the roster. Your scenario has Sammy waived. I was never doubting that could happen.

ya he already said he doesn't care about losing him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

he was drafted as a defenseman

He was supposed to be what Engelland ended up being, but he wasn't good enough. I remember him taking it hard that he was demoted and converted to forward, he took issue with it I think.

Then not so long after, he was gone.

 

[mpp9]

You must have missed the part where I said to put both Sammy and Dumo on the roster. Your scenario has Sammy waived. I was never doubting that could happen.

With the upper limit I just showed you at 69,825,833, yes you can fit them both in.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Nick Spaling ($2.200m)
Zach Sill ($0.550m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Blake Comeau ($0.700m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) / Adam Payerl ($0.627m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Philip Samuelsson ($0.550m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,825,833; CAP PAYROLL: $69,795,833; BONUSES: $240,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $30,000

LTIR Maatta. There's your 23 man active roster. Send one of Sill/Payerl down and call up Dumoulin.

It can be done.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

With the upper limit I just showed you at 69,825,833, yes you can fit them both in.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Nick Spaling ($2.200m)
Zach Sill ($0.550m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Blake Comeau ($0.700m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) / Adam Payerl ($0.627m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Philip Samuelsson ($0.550m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,825,833; CAP PAYROLL: $69,795,833; BONUSES: $240,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $30,000

LTIR Maatta. There's your 23 man active roster. Send one of Sill/Payerl down and call up Dumoulin.

It can be done.

I'd rather move Dumoulin for someone like Zucker and find someone to take Scuderi, even if you have to pair a 2nd or 3rd with him, just get him gone.

Martin, Letang
Maatta, Ehrhoff
Despres, Bortuzzo

Then if Martin doesn't re-sign...

Maatta, Letang
Despres, Ehrhoff - Him I hope we re-sign at least.
Samuelsson, Bortuzzo