Confirmed with Link: Penguins avoid arbitration with Dumoulin for another 6 years AAV $4.1million

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Might be a touch high since his production is nonexistent, but he's a top pairing guy and capable of logging big minutes on a team that just won back-to-back Cups. In a few years, if not already, $4.1M/yr is gonna be peanuts for that kinda player.

 

[Malkinstheman]

A guy like Hjmarlsson signed almost the exact same deal a couple years back after a cup win and hes a guy that doesnt provide much more offense than Dumo. That deal is always mentioned as great value so I dont see why this cant also follow suit.

At the time that Hammers deal was signed, his aav was 6.38% of the cap while Dumo is 5.47% plus we got him for an extra year.

 

[Tender Rip]

A guy like Hjmarlsson signed almost the exact same deal a couple years back after a cup win and hes a guy that doesnt provide much more offense than Dumo.

Hjalmarsson is not a bad comparable at all, but I still say he is at least a cut above Dumoulin. Both offensively and defensively.

 

[Ogrezilla]

2 Stanley Cups can cause a lot of distortion. It's easy to agree with Schultz and Dumo's contracts because... well, look at the results the last 2 years.

But.... and it's a huge but, if the the Pens have 2 early exits the next 2 years, people will have much different views on both contracts. Schultz's is better because of the term and he offers offense which is a hard find from D in the NHL. But Dumo? If I were JR, I would trade if something similar, younger and cheaper appeared.

sure if you can get a cheaper, younger guy to play a top pairing D role as effectively as he does, go for it. But where are you finding that?

I think Cole and Dumo are about equal in my eyes but they bring slightly different skill-sets.

Your eyes are deceiving you. Dumoulin is a MUCH better player than Cole. Not close. There's a reason Dumo just led our D in ice time while Cole was lowest ice time of the regulars. I really like Cole, but he's a 3rd pairing D-man who can fill in as a #4 for stretches. Dumoulin is a top pairing d-man who just filled in as our #1 for a stretch.

 

[sf expat71]

Obviously $35-$40 too much. We got hosed. But he's a Mainer so I'll allow it.

 

[Shady Machine]

sure if you can get a cheaper, younger guy to play a top pairing D role as effectively as he does, go for it. But where are you finding that?



Your eyes are deceiving you. Dumoulin is a MUCH better player than Cole. Not close. There's a reason Dumo just led our D in ice time while Cole was lowest ice time of the regulars. I really like Cole, but he's a 3rd pairing D-man who can fill in as a #4 for stretches. Dumoulin is a top pairing d-man who just filled in as our #1 for a stretch.

Correct. Cole looked like a dumpster fire next to Letang. I think people really underestimate how hard it is to play consistently against the other team's best players every night. If given similar roles, ice time, and matchups, it would become clear that Dumo is a better player than Cole.

 

[thecore]

Correct. Cole looked like a dumpster fire next to Letang. I think people really underestimate how hard it is to play consistently against the other team's best players every night. If given similar roles, ice time, and matchups, it would become clear that Dumo is a better player than Cole.

I think the Pens are going to right way with Cole. He's a Jay McKee type player who is going to fall off a cliff fast. We cannot commit to him long term other than a total sweetheart deal.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Hjalmarsson is not a bad comparable at all, but I still say he is at least a cut above Dumoulin. Both offensively and defensively.

As of right now.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I think the Pens are going to right way with Cole. He's a Jay McKee type player who is going to fall off a cliff fast. We cannot commit to him long term other than a total sweetheart deal.

He probably has a few decent years left, but in general I agree. Especially at the money he'll probably get. We don't have much choice, in any case.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

Don't like this contract. JR often overpays/slightly overpays in trades and in contract deals and that's one of the things I don't like about him as GM.

Dumo has to play like a number 2 dman on this team, but for me he doesn't bring something special. When Letang goes out with an injury, Dumo looks more like number 4-6 guy, than number two. I don't think of him as a great shutdown defenseman or great defensive dman and his offensive game is practicly atrocious. For me he's something in between, just an ok player.

I think if it got to an arbitration, they would award him much less. There would be no term, but then we would have Dumo with more resanoble cap hit for couple of years and maybe then work out something a bit more resanobale long term. (but then again JR often tends to overpay anyway, at least in my opinion)

Roman Josi's cap hit is $4m for two more years. He signed for that deal in 2013-14 for 7 years. And looking at his and Dumo's numbers makes me want to weep, considering that I don't think that Dumo is that great defensively as many probably do, and that he brings much of defensive power, for me it's more just like we don't have anyone else.
Josi hasn't got less than 12 goals,27 assist or 40 points(max 61 points in 15-16) in last four seasons, meanwhile Dumo hasn't got more than 1 goal in his full two seasons and his max points is 16.
Yeah, Josi's deal is undervalued, but still, he will have same cap hit(even 100k less) as Dumo for two more years.

 

[radapex]

Roman Josi's cap hit is $4m for two more years. He signed for that deal in 2013-14 for 7 years. And looking at his and Dumo's numbers makes me want to weep, considering that I don't think that Dumo is that great defensively as many probably do, and that he brings much of defensive power, for me it's more just like we don't have anyone else.

Josi hasn't got less than 12 goals,27 assist or 40 points(max 61 points in 15-16) in last four seasons, meanwhile Dumo hasn't got more than 1 goal in his full two seasons and his max points is 16.

Yeah, Josi's deal is undervalued, but still, he will have same cap hit(even 100k less) as Dumo for two more years.

Josi's deal was worth 6.22% of the salary cap when he signed it. Adjusting for the rise in salary cap, it becomes $4.67-million. Still a very good price for a player like Josi, but suddenly not quite as comparable to Dumoulin's deal.

But the bar was set with some of the UFA signings over the past month. Alzner and Smith, in particular, puts a premium price on the 4 UFA years the Pens bought from Dumoulin. If he signed short-term, whether it be 1 year or 2, he'd almost certainly be going UFA as in 2019 and cashing in for upwards of $5-mil (unless he was a total disaster between now and then). Alzner is a 15-20 point defenseman that plays 19-20 minutes a night and managed to get 5 years @ $4,625,000 with a modified NTC from Montreal.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Roman Josi is arguably on the best contract in the league. It's tough to use in comparisons because he's ridiculously underpaid.

You just can't use old contracts like that to compare. Crosby makes like 2 mill less than toews and Kane.

You know how you end up on the good side of those deals as a team? You give term like we just did.

 

[radapex]

Roman Josi is arguably on the best contract in the league. It's tough to use in comparisons because he's ridiculously underpaid.

It's like saying "I can't believe how overpaid McDavid is. Crosby only makes $8.7-mil per year." Long-term deal signed at a different point in the cap progression timeline. The salary cap has gone up over $10-mil (about 17%) between the time Josi signed his contract and now...

 

[Ogrezilla]

It's like saying "I can't believe how overpaid McDavid is. Crosby only makes $8.7-mil per year." Long-term deal signed at a different point in the cap progression timeline. The salary cap has gone up over $10-mil (about 17%) between the time Josi signed his contract and now...

yep, Josi would be signing for around 8 mil if he signed today. Two years from now, Dumo would likely be signing for 5 something. And that's without him getting any better.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

2 Stanley Cups can cause a lot of distortion. It's easy to agree with Schultz and Dumo's contracts because... well, look at the results the last 2 years.

But.... and it's a huge but, if the the Pens have 2 early exits the next 2 years, people will have much different views on both contracts. Schultz's is better because of the term and he offers offense which is a hard find from D in the NHL. But Dumo? If I were JR, I would trade if something similar, younger and cheaper appeared.

I am not convinced that a top-line, shutdown rearguard is easier to find than a PP quarterback. I think they are equally difficult to find. Hell, look at Letang. He is elite when healthy, and you could make an argument that he is neither.

Easiest thing to find these days is a non-productive, mobile puck-moving defenseman. Those are a dime a dozen.

Hjalmarsson is not a bad comparable at all, but I still say he is at least a cut above Dumoulin. Both offensively and defensively.

True, but he is also 5 years older. Five years ago, Hjalmarsson was more or less where Dumoulin is now.

Teams have a hard time winning Cups without true shutdown defensemen. Teams can win without an elite No. 1, as Carolina proved and we displayed it again this past spring.

I mean, we didn't go crazy on Dumoulin's deal. He got paid fairly. The last time we signed a shutdown D-man to play with Letang, it was a disaster (Scuderi, part deux). This time, it's fair market value for one of the best in his role.

 

[radapex]

yep, Josi would be signing for around 8 mil if he signed today. Two years from now, Dumo would likely be signing for 5 something. And that's without him getting any better.

Yup. Nashville's defense is going to blow up over the next few years. Ryan Ellis is in line for a big raise (currently making $2.5M per year) as is Josi.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Yup. Nashville's defense is going to blow up over the next few years. Ryan Ellis is in line for a big raise (currently making $2.5M per year) as is Josi.

They are the epitome of a sporting pipeline, though. They have always had defensemen waiting, ready to replace the departed. Ever since they let Kimmo Timonen (their first star defenseman) go to Philadelphia, they have been restocking the D shelves impeccably.

They have several quality defensemen on the way, led by Dante Fabbro and Samuel Girard. They have more, as well, and most play the same style Laviolette and Housley have perfected, and the style Poile has become synonymous with.

They'll be fine.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

Josi's deal was worth 6.22% of the salary cap when he signed it. Adjusting for the rise in salary cap, it becomes $4.67-million. Still a very good price for a player like Josi, but suddenly not quite as comparable to Dumoulin's deal.

But the bar was set with some of the UFA signings over the past month. Alzner and Smith, in particular, puts a premium price on the 4 UFA years the Pens bought from Dumoulin. If he signed short-term, whether it be 1 year or 2, he'd almost certainly be going UFA as in 2019 and cashing in for upwards of $5-mil (unless he was a total disaster between now and then). Alzner is a 15-20 point defenseman that plays 19-20 minutes a night and managed to get 5 years @ $4,625,000 with a modified NTC from Montreal.

Roman Josi is arguably on the best contract in the league. It's tough to use in comparisons because he's ridiculously underpaid.

You just can't use old contracts like that to compare. Crosby makes like 2 mill less than toews and Kane.

You know how you end up on the good side of those deals as a team? You give term like we just did.

I understand that Josi isn't a good comparison, it just the fact that they will have the same cap hit in the next two years that irritates me. And I know that Josi's contract is undervalued, I said that in my post.
Josi is more comporable to Schultz in playing style, as an offensive dman with PP time. And Schultz having $1.5m more in cap hit than Josi, doesn't irritate me much. Just Dumo having that cap hit and being such a bad offensive player and just ok in other aspects (defense, transition) at least in my opinion.

It's almost never mentioned, that Sid deal is front loaded tho. His cap hit is $8.7m, but he made $12m in each of three first seasons in actual salary, and next 6 years after that, his salary varies in $9-$10.9m range. In three last years of the contract he will make only $3m in each year. Maybe Toews and Kane would sign front-loaded deals with longer terms and lesser cap hits too, if that was allowed?

 

[wej20]

Mattias Ekholm's probably a better comparison for Dumoulin. Ekholm makes $3.75m for 6 years but you have to factor in that Dumoulin has 2 rings and that Tennessee doesn't have a state income tax.

 

[radapex]

Mattias Ekholm's probably a better comparison for Dumoulin. Ekholm makes $3.75m for 6 years but you have to factor in that Dumoulin has 2 rings and that Tennessee doesn't have a state income tax.

That's actually a very interesting point to bring up. CapFriendly has an "post-tax earnings" calculator. According to it, Dumoulin will pay $1,828,640 in income tax on his $4,100,000 salary, leaving him with a net of $2,271,360. Comparatively, Ekholm will pay $1,342,170 in income tax on his $3,500,000 salary, leaving him with a new of $2,167,830.

It won't work out exactly this way because players pay income tax based on their daily salaries in each state. But since the majority of working days are going to come in their home state, it's should be an acceptable estimation.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I understand that Josi isn't a good comparison, it just the fact that they will have the same cap hit in the next two years that irritates me. And I know that Josi's contract is undervalued, I said that in my post.
Josi is more comporable to Schultz in playing style, as an offensive dman with PP time. And Schultz having $1.5m more in cap hit than Josi, doesn't irritate me much. Just Dumo having that cap hit and being such a bad offensive player and just ok in other aspects (defense, transition) at least in my opinion.

It's almost never mentioned, that Sid deal is front loaded tho. His cap hit is $8.7m, but he made $12m in each of three first seasons in actual salary, and next 6 years after that, his salary varies in $9-$10.9m range. In three last years of the contract he will make only $3m in each year. Maybe Toews and Kane would sign front-loaded deals with longer terms and lesser cap hits too, if that was allowed?

I don't know what to say here other than that your opinion is wrong if you think Domoulin is only ok at defense.

 

[BHD]

The more I look at the contract, the more I'm OK with it. However, they might have to trade someone from the defense in the near future.

Letang - 7,25
Schultz - 5,50
Dumo - 4,10
Maatta - 4,083
Hunwick - 2,250
Cole - 2,100

 

[JBose7]

I think any defenseman that can play 25+ minutes a night is worth over 4 million and probably around 5 realistically. Good deal for both sides and I actually think Dumo will get better and better since hes still 25. Has for Sheary.....im not sure .....i would think 3.75 would be fair since he is in the Kunitz type role has Sids winger so id be ok with anything between 3.75 and 4.2

 

[ResignCraigAdams]

They are the epitome of a sporting pipeline, though. They have always had defensemen waiting, ready to replace the departed. Ever since they let Kimmo Timonen (their first star defenseman) go to Philadelphia, they have been restocking the D shelves impeccably.

They have several quality defensemen on the way, led by Dante Fabbro and Samuel Girard. They have more, as well, and most play the same style Laviolette and Housley have perfected, and the style Poile has become synonymous with.

They'll be fine.

Girard is going to be a stud. Mark my words.

 

[wej20]

The more I look at the contract, the more I'm OK with it. However, they might have to trade someone from the defense in the near future.

Letang - 7,25
Schultz - 5,50
Dumo - 4,10
Maatta - 4,083
Hunwick - 2,250
Cole - 2,100

Possibly, or they let Cole become a free agent in the summer and bring in someone cheaper (or Pouliot develops to take that spot, but unlikely I think).