Confirmed with Link: Penguins acquire D Douglas Murray from Sharks for 2013 2nd, 2014 conditional 2nd

[HandshakeLine]

Well, if we assume that other fan bases are just as reactionary and prone to histrionics as this one is that doesn't concern me in the slightest.

That's probably part of it.

But again, I really think people need to stop and consider that the Pens are built in a way that can really insulate certain kinds of players that have problems elsewhere. It's why players like Kunitz and Dupuis can be legit top 3 guys, for example.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

And, if things go according to plan, we'll be picking at 30 anyway. Might as well trade down.

I doubt many on here follow and value prospects as much as me, but you are talking four or five years before any kid you get at #25-30 is ready to help your team. You are talking probably another 1-2 years of junior, another year or two in the A, and another year in the NHL before they can have a meaningful impact.

I'm going out on a limb and if you want to call me on it, I won't stop loving you, but I suspect this org may not have two generational talents again for quite some time, if ever. You take advantage of them being in their prime when you can. I saw it happen with the last "dynasty" that ended before I knew it...

That first round pick is just currency. If you can use it to bring in a guy to help push your team over the top, you use it. We have no guarantees Crosby and Malkin will ever be healthy together again. I thought that team was setup to win 4 or 5 cups in the early 90s. I'll never be that naive again.

Shero has to seize this opportunity. It's a rare chance we may never see again.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Is Murray really that much better than Engelland and Orpik?

Engelland
Despres
Letang
Eaton
Niskanen
Martin
Bourtuzzo
Orpik
Murray

Seems a bit excessive?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Nah, I totally get where you're coming from on this Jiggy. I think that's spot on.

I was just pointing out (in my slightly trollish way ) that the whole point of these moves is so that we're picking last anyway, in a best case scenario (translation: We just won the damn Cup). At which case, it may very well be better to trade down to the 2nd.

It just seems so strange to me to complain about that 2nd when we haven't even gotten to the draft yet.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I do hope that Shero is still actively trying to get another wing, either Iggy or someone like Ott.

I just hope he at least tries and drives up the price for Iginla especially if it's to Boston.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Is Murray really that much better than Engelland and Orpik?

Engelland
Despres
Letang
Eaton
Niskanen
Martin
Bourtuzzo
Orpik
Murray

Seems a bit excessive?

A) Better than Engelland, different niche than Orpik. Murray serves a purpose.

B) Something's gotta give. Nobody rolls with 9 blueliners into the offseason. Someone is probably traded by the deadline.

 

[billybudd]

One Sharks fan's touching tribute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aedJbDCmI8

Highly recommend watching this. I was laughing from beginning to end.

 

[Fire Shero*]

A) Better than Engelland, different niche than Orpik. Murray serves a purpose.

B) Something's gotta give. Nobody rolls with 9 blueliners into the offseason. Someone is probably traded by the deadline.

I dunno we all know how much Shero loves hoarding dmen.

 

[Random Hero]

Is Murray really that much better than Engelland and Orpik?

Engelland
Despres
Letang
Eaton
Niskanen
Martin
Bourtuzzo
Orpik
Murray

Seems a bit excessive?

Yes, he is better than those two in the areas that we are struggling right now. There was an obvious hole in our defense as it was lacking a true big man to kill penalties, block shots, and provide a huge deterrent in front of our net. Murray fits all those needs to a T.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Is Murray really that much better than Engelland and Orpik?

Engelland
Despres
Letang
Eaton
Niskanen
Martin
Bourtuzzo
Orpik
Murray

Seems a bit excessive?

Look, I am no fan of the cost of these moves. But move the cost aside, we have had no one who could clear the crease in front of Fleury. If they could then what the hell have they been waiting for the last few years because I barely ever saw it. Now if Murray ends up not doing that, then you can say that he brings nothing to the team. I am assuming that he can though in which case it was a hole on this team.

 

[regard]

Is Murray really that much better than Engelland and Orpik?

Engelland
Despres
Letang
Eaton
Niskanen
Martin
Bourtuzzo
Orpik
Murray

Seems a bit excessive?

Gonchar
Orpik
Gill
Scuderi
Letang
Eaton
Goligoski
Boucher
Lovejoy

NO

 

[Jaded-Fan]

A) Better than Engelland, different niche than Orpik. Murray serves a purpose.

B) Something's gotta give. Nobody rolls with 9 blueliners into the offseason. Someone is probably traded by the deadline.

So given the prices Shero paid, I would guess we get a couple of firsts for our spare bottom pairing defensemen, true?

 

[spcastlemagic]

Initial reactions aside, my problem at this point is that we acquired two guys that their respective previous fanbases couldn't wait to get rid of. And we still have our own Tyler Kennedy.

We still have Norris-worthy defenseman Paul Martin. Fanbases can be fickle.

 

[PensFan68]

I doubt many on here follow and value prospects as much as me, but you are talking four or five years before any kid you get at #25-30 is ready to help your team. You are talking probably another 1-2 years of junior, another year or two in the A, and another year in the NHL before they can have a meaningful impact.

I'm going out on a limb and if you want to call me on it, I won't stop loving you, but I suspect this org may not have two generational talents again for quite some time, if ever. You take advantage of them being in their prime when you can. I saw it happen with the last "dynasty" that ended before I knew it...

That first round pick is just currency. If you can use it to bring in a guy to help push your team over the top, you use it. We have no guarantees Crosby and Malkin will ever be healthy together again. I thought that team was setup to win 4 or 5 cups in the early 90s. I'll never be that naive again.

Shero has to seize this opportunity. It's a rare chance we may never see again.

I think the question with including the pick (plus another couple prospects) is the length of term we are getting in return. With Iginla in his mid 30's and a UFA, we risk losing all that for the shot at one cup. Don't get me wrong, that'd be great if we won it but why not try to move those parts for a younger guy that is signed for a few years (don't really know if any are available at this point though)?

I, personally, have no issue dealing away youngsters/picks, especially in our situation (as you said with these great talents). Let's go for as many cups as we can while Sid/Geno are in their late 20's (and into early 30's). I, however, would rather deal those parts for younger players that will be in their prime at the same time.

 

[WVP]

That's probably part of it.

But again, I really think people need to stop and consider that the Pens are built in a way that can really insulate certain kinds of players that have problems elsewhere. It's why players like Kunitz and Dupuis can be legit top 3 guys, for example.

Well, it's that or you can look at it as two character guys being asked to fill specific roles where they can contribute:

- Murray: ES minutes next to a strong skater, heavy PK minutes. Huge physical presence and a crease clearer
- Morrow: puck retrieval and board play to open up space for Malkin and Neal. Also a net presence and a physical factor. Doesn't need to put up big time points to play a role and can slide down the lineup if needed

Or you can complain about draft pics.

 

[HandshakeLine]

So given the prices Shero paid, I would guess we get a couple of firsts for our spare bottom pairing defensemen, true?

Jaded, what we paid for Murray is only slightly more than what we paid for Gill. There's always a market for big, mean, crease-clearers, and with the races as close as they are this season, inflation was bound to creep in.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the defensemen on roster were traded or moved by the deadline, either for picks or as part of a deal.

 

[Pens1566]

Well, if we assume that other fan bases are just as reactionary and prone to histrionics as this one is that doesn't concern me in the slightest.

True. But these 2 were at the bottom of anyone's wish list (if they were even on them) as well and there's some amount of buyers justification going on as well. 2 weeks ago no one around here would be happy with these pickups. Assuming we're done that is.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Unless Shero is changing his mind, he said he expects all 9 defenseman to be on the roster after the trade deadline when the rosters can expand. Doesn't sound like they're being traded.

 

[HandshakeLine]

True. But these 2 were at the bottom of anyone's wish list (if they were even on them) as well and there's some amount of buyers justification going on as well. 2 weeks ago no one around here would be happy with these pickups. Assuming we're done that is.

I dunno. I hated (along with most of us) the Gill trade at the time. It worked out pretty well. Same with Guerin. Conversely, I was slightly hopeful about Ponikarovsky.

At the end of the day, how I feel about the trade really means nothing. Murray and Morrow were brought in for pretty specific reasons, and if they work in those roles, then the trade is justified.

 

[ColePens]

I do hope that Shero is still actively trying to get another wing, either Iggy or someone like Ott.

Ott is my legit #1 right now that I want. He fills so many needs. Could you imagine him and Sutter shutting top lines down and winning faceoff after faceoff?

I want.

 

[PensFan68]

Look, I am no fan of the cost of these moves. But move the cost aside, we have had no one who could clear the crease in front of Fleury. If they could then what the hell have they been waiting for the last few years because I barely ever saw it. Now if Murray ends up not doing that, then you can say that he brings nothing to the team. I am assuming that he can though in which case it was a hole on this team.

I agree. Murray will instantly become our slowest D man, but he will also become our toughest checker and crease clearer. This is something we've lacked for a while, and I'm thrilled we've filled that void.

I foresee he and Eaton becoming sorta like our shutdown tandem of Gill/Scuderi in our cup year. They aren't going to provide any offense and they are slow, but if they stay in position and play smart hockey they could be a force together. I know that idea invokes rage with many here (Eaton/Murray playing over Despres), but it could turn out well.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Unless Shero is changing his mind, he said he expects all 9 defenseman to be on the roster after the trade deadline when the rosters can expand. Doesn't sound like they're being traded.

Well, saying that they were going to be traded lowers the value, no?

Didn't we see that happen already this season when we had to move players and other teams knew our hand was forced?

Right now, as long as we can keep Malkin and Letang on IR, we can keep all 9 on the roster. That's a help in negotiating with whoever wants/needs a spare blueliner for the post-season.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Ott is my legit #1 right now that I want. He fills so many needs. Could you imagine him and Sutter shutting top lines down and winning faceoff after faceoff?

I want.

I've been a fan of us getting Ott for a few years now.

 

[SteelFish87*]

Ott is my legit #1 right now that I want. He fills so many needs. Could you imagine him and Sutter shutting top lines down and winning faceoff after faceoff?

I want.

we should have got Ott instead of Morrow. now i dont see us going after Ott

 

[HandshakeLine]

we should have got Ott instead of Morrow. now i dont see us going after Ott

Maybe Buffalo doesn't want to trade Ott.

There's no way of knowing right now what offers we made, were on the table, or are still on the table. You can't analyze what you would do in an unlikely scenario. We can't force Buffalo to trade us anything; trading is a two-way street.

All we know is that Dallas liked our offer for Morrow over Boston's.