Confirmed with Link: Penguins acquire D Douglas Murray from Sharks for 2013 2nd, 2014 conditional 2nd

[Darth Vitale]

Seto might be fair value there but he's not for sale / available at this point. Minnesota is on fire and he's a big part of their team.

 

[Dying Alive]

What about someone like Okposo?

For what the Pens have given up? I seriously doubt it. The Isles aren't going to trade a guy who may be slumping to a division rival for a prospect and a few picks, especially given that they're hovering around the playoff bubble.

The Wild are leading their division and Seto has been good for them. They have no motivation to make that move, especially not for futures. They want to win. As for Stewart it's a moot point, since nobody has a time machine and the Blues aren't going to trade him now for non-roster players or our unneeded parts. Part of these trades is that other teams have to be in a position to want to give up these players.

 

[SteelFish87*]

I think a deal between the Pens and Flyers is more likely than between the Pens and Islanders.

F them

 

[PensFan68]

You'll have to ask UB44 as he brought up the whole "A" prospect thing.

I just think it's funny that this summer everyone was saying, "Morro is gonna be out PP QB next season, he's that good!" and now that he's been moved it's "he wasn't that good to begin with".

I think everyone was surprised by the deal. We all thought his value was higher. However, I think most have realized that his potential may not have been what we thought. I don't think anything thinks he wasn't good to begin with, I think people just think that we overvalued him if Shero moved him for so little.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Well the Dallas GM believed Joe Morrow to be such an enticing prospect that he was willing to do a pick swap on top of it and reject Khokhlachev and a 2nd from the Bruins. I know it's the cool thing to say that the player sucked anyways when he's out the door but there certainly was a perceived value around the league for Joe Morrow.

"Such an enticing prospect"? He gave up an aging forward and moved down from round 3 to round 5. What about that tells you Morrow was so enticing? I'm not seeing what's so amazing about Khokhlachev either. Seems to be just like Morrow: A good prospect, but if you're trying to win a Cup then you might be able to part ways with him.

When Joe Morrow turns into a top 4 guy scoring 35+ points a season then I'll wonder about the deal. That will be in exactly 2-4 whole years. IF we don't win a Cup. IF it even happens at all. Think about it.

 

[Gooch]

For what the Pens have given up? I seriously doubt it. The Isles aren't going to trade a guy who may be slumping to a division rival for a prospect and a few picks, especially given that they're hovering around the playoff bubble.

The Wild are leading their division and Seto has been good for them. They have no motivation to make that move, especially not for futures. They want to win. As for Stewart it's a moot point, since nobody has a time machine and the Blues aren't going to trade him now for non-roster players or our unneeded parts. Part of these trades is that other teams have to be in a position to want to give up these players.

Ok, so you bait someone into offering up a suggestion and then you tell us how silly it is. If it were a few days ago and you posted on this board a fake proposal of Brendan Morrow to the Pens for Joe Morrow you wouldve been similarly dismissed. Stars also have every intention of competing in the playoffs but that didnt stop them from trading their captain for a prospect.

I think I'll maintain that Shero traded for what he wanted, not merely what was left.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Seto might be fair value there but he's not for sale / available at this point. Minnesota is on fire and he's a big part of their team.

There's a big difference between value in a vacuum, and value in a market.

We'd have to overpay for Seto, just as much as we overpaid for Morrow, if not moreso. Trades always happen in context and need to be evaluated as such.

 

[Gooch]

"Such an enticing prospect"? He gave up an aging forward and moved down from round 3 to round 5. What about that tells you Morrow was so enticing? I'm not seeing what's so amazing about Khokhlachev either. Seems to be just like Morrow: A good prospect, but if you're trying to win a Cup then you might be able to part ways with him.

When Joe Morrow turns into a top 4 guy scoring 35+ points a season then I'll wonder about the deal. That will be in exactly 2-4 whole years. IF we don't win a Cup. IF it even happens at all. Think about it.

Ok, I get it. Joe Morrow is not penguins property anymore so now he's a scrub. I've seen this song and dance before.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Seto might be fair value there but he's not for sale / available at this point. Minnesota is on fire and he's a big part of their team.

That goes along with my point about Stew last year when he was getting scratched. IIRC Seto got scratched or put on the 3rd line at the beginning of the year in Minny when Shero was heavily scouting them and he never pulled the trigger. Now he's turned it around and Minny is in the middle of a race. IMO Shero waits way too long to pull the trigger and by the time he does the price has gone up.

Here's Seto's game log for this season. He did nothing in the first half of the year (when Shero was at like every Minny game for a few weeks it seemed) and has now tuenrd it around w/ 7 goals in the past 10 games.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3785/gamelog;_ylt=AiqcJ7ZMBatEY5O.c29VOshivLYF

Oh, and Stewart (who many wanted last year) has matched last year's goal total in 50 less games this year.

 

[nTsplnk*]

Every summer people say it's a deep draft. It's like how every nearly every team says that this year is their year in training camp.

Also how people overrate their prospects every year.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Ok, I get it. Joe Morrow is not penguins property anymore so now he's a scrub. I've seen this song and dance before.

No, you're just not reading what I type apparently. He's a good prospect, I said as much above. At the same time he doesn't hold the perceived value that's causing you to have a heart attack over this deal. Either that or you simply think Shero is really stupid, which I think he's proven over the years he is not.

Think back to how many deals have come and gone where HF collectively laughed at one of the teams involved, then later on it turns out the deal was pretty fair. Why? Because everyone was fawning over a guy almost no one actually saw play and it ended up he just wasn't the blue chip prospect everyone assumed he was.

 

[radapex]

A) Better than Engelland, different niche than Orpik. Murray serves a purpose.

B) Something's gotta give. Nobody rolls with 9 blueliners into the offseason. Someone is probably traded by the deadline.

If I'm not mistaken, the Pens carried 9 defensemen in the 2008-09 playoffs... and that one ended pretty well.


Boucher, Eaton, Gill, Goligoski, Gonchar, Letang, Lovejoy, Orpik, Scuderi

 

[ColePens]

Let's tone down some of the personal attacks and keep discussing hockey.

 

[radapex]

True. But these 2 were at the bottom of anyone's wish list (if they were even on them) as well and there's some amount of buyers justification going on as well. 2 weeks ago no one around here would be happy with these pickups. Assuming we're done that is.

Boston was in on Morrow and arguably offered a better deal than the Pens with Khokhlachev + a 2nd. The beauty of a NTC is the player has say in where they want to go - just like Guerin did back in the day. The Islanders got better offers for Guerin than the conditional pick from the Pens, but Guerin wanted to go to Pittsburgh and I believe the same is true of Morrow.

As for Murray, Carolina was in on him as well. GMRS, himself, said that two 2nds was market price for a defenseman like Murray.

 

[radapex]

and which player drafted in the 1st round after Morrow would you have taken?

Besides Shaw and Saad no player is looking like "steals" or even A prospects at this time. Pens figured he was the best available for them at the time

Dmitrij Jaskin looks like he could be a real steal for the Blues at #41 overall.

 

[radapex]

There's a big difference between value in a vacuum, and value in a market.

We'd have to overpay for Seto, just as much as we overpaid for Morrow, if not moreso. Trades always happen in context and need to be evaluated as such.

As many have implied, the trading pool is pretty dry this year. That means overpayment for the few guys of any quality out there.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Nah, I totally get where you're coming from on this Jiggy. I think that's spot on.

I was just pointing out (in my slightly trollish way ) that the whole point of these moves is so that we're picking last anyway, in a best case scenario (translation: We just won the damn Cup). At which case, it may very well be better to trade down to the 2nd.

It just seems so strange to me to complain about that 2nd when we haven't even gotten to the draft yet.

Ya I know you were ****ing with him. I was basically just expanding on what you said: If we are lucky, that pick, if he does in fact work out, won't be making an impact for at least four or five years.

I heard a rumor that they get another #1 pick next year and the year after that and the year after that... I'll try to find you a link, but I'm lazy so, you may have to just take my word for it...

 

[nTsplnk*]

Seto, easily IMO. Or Stewart last year when he was getting scratched.

Why would Minnesota trade a roster player while they're still in the hunt? Losing Seto hurts their depth.

Steward was garbage last year, and the Blues were high on keeping him anyway.

Next.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think the question with including the pick (plus another couple prospects) is the length of term we are getting in return. With Iginla in his mid 30's and a UFA, we risk losing all that for the shot at one cup. Don't get me wrong, that'd be great if we won it but why not try to move those parts for a younger guy that is signed for a few years (don't really know if any are available at this point though)?

I, personally, have no issue dealing away youngsters/picks, especially in our situation (as you said with these great talents). Let's go for as many cups as we can while Sid/Geno are in their late 20's (and into early 30's). I, however, would rather deal those parts for younger players that will be in their prime at the same time.

I would of rather seen my favorite prospect dealt for a long term solution also, but it is becoming harder and harder it seems, in a cap world, to find great young NHL proven talent, that other GMs are willing to trade away.

It still stings Morrow got moved, but I can't worry about it now.

 

[Dying Alive]

Ok, so you bait someone into offering up a suggestion and then you tell us how silly it is. If it were a few days ago and you posted on this board a fake proposal of Brendan Morrow to the Pens for Joe Morrow you wouldve been similarly dismissed. Stars also have every intention of competing in the playoffs but that didnt stop them from trading their captain for a prospect.

I think I'll maintain that Shero traded for what he wanted, not merely what was left.

How is that baiting? You might want to take it down a notch and stop feeling so personally assaulted every time someone brings up an alternative opinion. And I never said "silly", I said none of them seem realistic. And they don't, unless you can explain why they do? Why would a team in the playoff hunt give up one of their key pieces? Why would a team in our division give us what we need for a prospect and a couple of picks? I believe that you yourself have expressed the opinion that Morrow is old and broken down, so how does that relate to making a trade for someone who is: a) young & skilled; b) acquirable for what the Pens have given up; and c) a long term solution?

I think Shero traded for what he wanted as well, and I think he addressed needs on the team. Obviously you and I differ there.

 

[sniugneP]

Why would Minnesota trade a roster player while they're still in the hunt? Losing Seto hurts their depth.

Steward was garbage last year, and the Blues were high on keeping him anyway.

Next.

Exactly. They were never been available for trades.

 

[nTsplnk*]

Exactly. They were never been available for trades.

Yep. Too many people playing NHL12 thinking GMs can just force trades.

 

[Dying Alive]

That goes along with my point about Stew last year when he was getting scratched. IIRC Seto got scratched or put on the 3rd line at the beginning of the year in Minny when Shero was heavily scouting them and he never pulled the trigger. Now he's turned it around and Minny is in the middle of a race. IMO Shero waits way too long to pull the trigger and by the time he does the price has gone up.

Here's Seto's game log for this season. He did nothing in the first half of the year (when Shero was at like every Minny game for a few weeks it seemed) and has now tuenrd it around w/ 7 goals in the past 10 games.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3785/gamelog;_ylt=AiqcJ7ZMBatEY5O.c29VOshivLYF

Oh, and Stewart (who many wanted last year) has matched last year's goal total in 50 less games this year.

So with as furious as people are about Joe Morrow being moved, they'd have been ok with moving him for a guy who had done nothing the entire first half of the year and was a healthy scratch before he turned it around? Or moving him this past summer for a guy who was a healthy scratch for the Blues last year? It's easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Pens1566]

Boston was in on Morrow and arguably offered a better deal than the Pens with Khokhlachev + a 2nd. The beauty of a NTC is the player has say in where they want to go - just like Guerin did back in the day. The Islanders got better offers for Guerin than the conditional pick from the Pens, but Guerin wanted to go to Pittsburgh and I believe the same is true of Morrow.

As for Murray, Carolina was in on him as well. GMRS, himself, said that two 2nds was market price for a defenseman like Murray.

The Morrow to Boston bit has apparently been refuted. Joe N only went to him with the Pens offer/possibility. If there was a Boston offer at all, it was apparently lesser in the eyes of Joe N.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Why would Minnesota trade a roster player while they're still in the hunt? Losing Seto hurts their depth.

Steward was garbage last year, and the Blues were high on keeping him anyway.

Next.

I dunno.

Why would Dallas trade a roster player (and captain) when they're in the hunt?

I would of rather seen my favorite prospect dealt for a long term solution also, but it is becoming harder and harder it seems, in a cap world, to find great young NHL proven talent, that other GMs are willing to trade away.

It still stings Morrow got moved, but I can't worry about it now.

Indeed. Which (as you are already well aware) is why drafting and developing is massively important in today's league. You have to hit much more than you miss, particularly in the upper rounds. Even late round gems, which were always considered a bonus, are becoming important to dig up, consistently.

Even "perennial contenders" have to be very mindful of their prospect pipeline.