Confirmed with Link: Penguins acquire D Douglas Murray from Sharks for 2013 2nd, 2014 conditional 2nd

[Dying Alive]

True. But these 2 were at the bottom of anyone's wish list (if they were even on them) as well and there's some amount of buyers justification going on as well. 2 weeks ago no one around here would be happy with these pickups. Assuming we're done that is.

Not Shero's and not Chiarelli's. And with all due respect to my fellow fans, I'll take their opinions over armchair GMs on a message board.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I see people are still assuming Morrow is an "A" prospect. I guess Shero is just dumb and Morrow really will be amazing.

He wouldn't have made the freakin' deal if J Morrow was a stud, end of story. There were 5 other packages he could've put together to land B. Morrow. If Joe was so good he would've found another way and that's the end of it if you ask me.

If Morrow isn't an "A" prospect Shero shouldn't have drafted him in the 1st round. Drafting players who aren't that good in the 1st round and only being able to get old rentals for them seems pretty dumb to me.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Maybe Buffalo doesn't want to trade Ott.

Yah that's very likely IMO (that they DON'T want to trade him after just acquiring him). They're much more likely to move other players.

 

[JQR]

Is Murray really that much better than Engelland and Orpik?

Engelland
Despres
Letang
Eaton
Niskanen
Martin
Bourtuzzo
Orpik
Murray

Seems a bit excessive?

When you spell it out like that, yeah. And I really have no idea who would be the first to go. I guess it all depends on the trade. If we need grit, I can't see moving Engo. I think Borts and Orpik would be the obvious ones, but I also think Despres could be a key component of a big trade.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If Morrow isn't an "A" prospect Shero shouldn't have drafted him in the 1st round. Drafting players who aren't that good in the 1st round and only being able to get old rentals for them seems pretty dumb to me.

Define "A" prospect, please. Do you mean, legit top pairing/high-end draft pick?

Also, on a related note, I'd like to see how many 1st round draft picks actually end up being these studs that everybody claims they are. There's been a ton of very, very disappointing players picked in the 1st. Drafts just aren't as sure-fire as people think they are.

I have no idea if Morrow will be that kind of player, but it's kind of ridiculous to think that just because a player was picked in the 1st, they're automatically awesome. The amount of awesome players is, by definition, very very small.

 

[PensFan68]

If Morrow isn't an "A" prospect Shero shouldn't have drafted him in the 1st round. Drafting players who aren't that good in the 1st round and only being able to get old rentals for them seems pretty dumb to me.

Because 1st rounders always turn out, right?

 

[Max Talbot]

You know, just like we traded picks for players, other teams can trade us things for our players. Crazy, I know, but it's happened a surprising amount of time.

That's the wonderful thing about picks-- if you want to replace them, often times, you can. We could trade up or down at the draft, we could be forced to move some pieces in the off-season, etc. Complaining now about trading picks is just silly. Complain on draft day, if we still don't have a second.

Ya Im sure we could get a 7th for glass, or a 3rd for Jeffrey, or maybe someone will give us a 2nd for TK. Keep thinking like that.... Im not saying 2nd rd picks are gold or that I even want to keep them. Its all about value. Is Murray an upgrade over Eaton or Engelland or Depres or hell even Burtuzzo? I say no. Obviously its my opinion but still. We traded two 2nd round picks for a guy that IMO is our 9th best NHL caliber defenseman. Thats not good VALUE. You know what Im saying right? Please read this through before you give another dumb answer.

Again Im not saying we re screwed or we gave up our future because we traded 2 2nd round picks. Thats just silly. Its about asset management. Could we use a little size and grit on our backend? Sure, but 2 high picks for Murray? I dont like it. Hell even Hal Gill only cost us a 2nd and a 5th and he was a better player at the time then Murray is now. Hell, id take Hal Gill right now over Murray.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Maybe Buffalo doesn't want to trade Ott.

There's no way of knowing right now what offers we made, were on the table, or are still on the table. You can't analyze what you would do in an unlikely scenario. We can't force Buffalo to trade us anything; trading is a two-way street.

All we know is that Dallas liked our offer for Morrow over Boston's.

Ott has been really good for the Sabres and they would be dumb to trade him now. I could see them moving guys like Leino or Stafford but if they move guys like Pominville or Vanek it means they're rebuilding from scratch with I doubt with the new owner they have now. Guy isn't waiting around 4-5 years

 

[Jaded-Fan]

If Morrow isn't an "A" prospect Shero shouldn't have drafted him in the 1st round. Drafting players who aren't that good in the 1st round and only being able to get old rentals for them seems pretty dumb to me.

That is not fair. He was picked at the bottom of the round. The chances of getting a player that does anything in the NHL at all at that point was a crap shoot. I have hammered Shero at times, but his drafting of defensemen at the end of the first round and second round has been pretty first rate. Look at the list of our defensive prospects. Very few have as much success gaining well thought of prospects picking that low.

 

[HandshakeLine]

2 picks in different years. For a player that is a much better hitter and crease clearer than any of the players you mentioned. That's about market value for big, mean blueliners.

Also, Maxime you need a new username. May I suggest "DouglasMurray"?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

No one trades top 6 wingers. They're too hard to come by. Toronto isn't letting go of Kulemin who scores less than 10 goals every year.

Minny wants to keep Seto. If the deal was there then Shero would do it: See Neal for GoGo.

Your second statement contradicts your first.

As to the bolded I'm calling BS. With Morrow and two 2nds Shero could have gotten a young winger if he wanted to. He wanted gritty vets (what else is new) so that's what he got.

 

[Max Talbot]

I'm not sure why people keep saying this.

This draft is top heavy.. First ten picks or so are much better than years prior, but after that it is not much different than other years.

Maybe your right. Im no scout and I only get to watch NHL games so it would be ignorant of me to act like I know what Im talking about as far as how deep the draft is. Im just saying thats what Ive read over and over again for awhile now.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

If Morrow isn't an "A" prospect Shero shouldn't have drafted him in the 1st round. Drafting players who aren't that good in the 1st round and only being able to get old rentals for them seems pretty dumb to me.

and which player drafted in the 1st round after Morrow would you have taken?

Besides Shaw and Saad no player is looking like "steals" or even A prospects at this time. Pens figured he was the best available for them at the time

 

[HandshakeLine]

Maybe your right. Im no scout and I only get to watch NHL games so it would be ignorant of me to act like I know what Im talking about as far as how deep the draft is. Im just saying thats what Ive read over and over again for awhile now.

I think every year, all the draft guides tout how "deep" the draft is. It's a good way to get people to buy their products.

 

[Max Talbot]

2 picks in different years. For a player that is a much better hitter and crease clearer than any of the players you mentioned. That's about market value for big, mean blueliners.

Also, Maxime you need a new username. May I suggest "DouglasMurray"?

Why do people assume big hitters translates to good defenders. Im assuming you havent watched Murray play for while. Go ask Shark fans how they feel about Douglas Murray and his crease clearing abilities.

And ill stick with the Talbot name, that man was a lot of the heart and soul that won us the cup.

 

[billybudd]

Not Shero's and not Chiarelli's. And with all due respect to my fellow fans, I'll take their opinions over armchair GMs on a message board.

Yeah, it's not an accident that two GMs who have built recent cup winners are chasing all the same guys, while GMs who haven't snub their nose at these guys. If they "got it" they'd have built winners, like Chiarelli and Shero have.

 

[Gallatin]

A) Better than Engelland, different niche than Orpik. Murray serves a purpose.

B) Something's gotta give. Nobody rolls with 9 blueliners into the offseason. Someone is probably traded by the deadline.

It is Shero's oft stated belief that you need 9 NHL caliber D to win a cup. So this is all part of the plan.

 

[HandshakeLine]

We do people assume big hitters translates to good defenders. Im assuming you havent watched Murray play for while. Go ask Shark fans how they feel about Douglas Murray and his crease clearing abilities.

And ill stick with the Talbot name, that man was a lot of the heart and soul that won us the cup.

Have you watched Murray? Or are you just reading things on a message board too?

I caught a lot of Murray last season and the year before being out in the Western Conference. I'm aware of his downsides. I also saw the Pens do something very similar with a terrible absolutely immobile defenseman named Hal Gill a few years back. You may remember him. Big guy. Kind of useless outside of the Pens. Won a cup on the Pens.

 

[Dying Alive]

Your second statement contradicts your first.

As to the bolded I'm calling BS. With Morrow and two 2nds Shero could have gotten a young winger if he wanted to. He wanted gritty vets (what else is new) so that's what he got.

Honest question: which young winger could Shero have gotten for Morrow, a 2nd, and a conditional 2nd? I can't think of anyone particularly impressive who could be had for that price but I may be overlooking someone.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Define "A" prospect, please. Do you mean, legit top pairing/high-end draft pick?

Also, on a related note, I'd like to see how many 1st round draft picks actually end up being these studs that everybody claims they are. There's been a ton of very, very disappointing players picked in the 1st. Drafts just aren't as sure-fire as people think they are.

I have no idea if Morrow will be that kind of player, but it's kind of ridiculous to think that just because a player was picked in the 1st, they're automatically awesome. The amount of awesome players is, by definition, very very small.

You'll have to ask UB44 as he brought up the whole "A" prospect thing.

I just think it's funny that this summer everyone was saying, "Morro is gonna be out PP QB next season, he's that good!" and now that he's been moved it's "he wasn't that good to begin with".

 

[Dying Alive]

We do people assume big hitters translates to good defenders. Im assuming you havent watched Murray play for while. Go ask Shark fans how they feel about Douglas Murray and his crease clearing abilities.

And ill stick with the Talbot name, that man was a lot of the heart and soul that won us the cup.

And? Pens fans rag on TK mercilessly and would sell him for used pucks and Sharks fans were hoping to get him back as part of the Murray deal. Value is relative.

Plus from what I've seen, Sharks fans have listed his crease clearing abilities as a positive. It's his lack of speed that they had issue with.

 

[Captain Hook]

I've seen a lot of Sharks fans praise his pk ability, crease clearing ability and call him a warrior. The majority of complaints I've heard are that he is so slow that he can't be a top 4 guy anymore.

It's tough to know what to make of opposing fans views when a player is leaving them though because it always tends to be negative. Hell, Joe Morrow went from an amazing prospect to Average Joe Morrow that's a mess on D etc.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You'll have to ask UB44 as he brought up the whole "A" prospect thing.

I just think it's funny that this summer everyone was saying, "Morro is gonna be out PP QB next season, he's that good!" and now that he's been moved it's "he wasn't that good to begin with".

Yeah, but people are terrible judges of how players develop. I was just thinking the other day about how angry people were that we traded Esposito for Hossa.

I dunno whether or not Morrow is going to be a trade we'll regret or not since I don't watch WB/S (ever since I relocated, my interest in the minors has pretty much disappeared). What I do know is that the odds of any player actually becoming a super-star (or even above-average NHL'er) are spectacularly small.

I don't doubt that some of this is people trying to come up with a reason to sell themselves on a trade. But I also think that, on the other hand, there's a lot of over-valuation of prospects going on here.

 

[Gooch]

Honest question: which young winger could Shero have gotten for Morrow, a 2nd, and a conditional 2nd? I can't think of anyone particularly impressive who could be had for that price but I may be overlooking someone.

What about someone like Okposo?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Honest question: which young winger could Shero have gotten for Morrow, a 2nd, and a conditional 2nd? I can't think of anyone particularly impressive who could be had for that price but I may be overlooking someone.

Seto, easily IMO. Or Stewart last year when he was getting scratched.