Post-Game Talk: Penguins 8, Flyers 5 - Jake says . . . IT'S OVAAAH! (Guentzel mic'd up post #663)

[Speaking Moistly]

I mean, our PK didn’t let in a goal the last three games and Letang had a goal and three assists in the last three games.

But, sure. He took a bad penalty and turned over the puck a couple of times so none of that matters.

It’s not that none of it matters. It’s about maximizing the good and minimizing the bad.

 

[Gurglesons]

He was playing 22 minutes a night at ES in the last three games.

You’re confirming my point right?

 

[Return of the Paek]

So I find myself somewhere in the middle. I get frustrated with Letang but no way in hell is he replaceable. So what is a realistic want? For me - it's actually pretty easy:

I want Letang to buy into Sully's culture. He's seriously one of the last to do so. JUST PLAY. I do think he's far worse than Geno because it's 2 different ways of getting in the mix. Geno does it and he elevates his game. That's why he gets a pass. Letang does it and it negatively affects his game.

The day I watch Letang take a punch, not even look, and skate away is the day I will fall back in love with #58. I am talking Sid just completely ignoring Joe Thornton and making him look like an idiot in 2016. I want to see 58 do that so i know he bought in. He's one of the final guys to just not be able to escape the lack of accountability from bylsma.

Cole, I couldn't have said it better.

 

[PensandCaps]

Offensive blueliners are my favorite players to watch... I follow these guys closely and all the superstars have a litany of bad turnovers every single game. It’s the nature of the position.

Subban, EK, OEL.... they screw up ALL the time. And Burns, holy **** that dude is a train wreck in his own end. None of them are some ultra cerebral players that put Letang to shame. It’s simply a fabrication to suggest otherwise.

Letang, Doughty and Subban are all hotheads that cross the line and let their emotions get the best of them. Subban was even dumb enough to goad Crosby off the ice as well... that’s a whole other level of stupid.

There aren’t many cerebral types like Murphy and Lidstrom left at the position these days. These guys play off emotion and instincts, and more often than not, it works quite well for them, despite the mistakes they make all over the ice.

Suter is the closest to Lidstrom I would say. Hedman is fantastic defensively and offensively. But even he can be a hothead and make some really dumb plays.


I never got why people wanted to trade Letang+! For OEL. If they watched the Coyoetes, they would see that he is making just as many dumb plays as Letang and isn't as good as him.

 

[BlankFrank416]

Letang had a down season after recovering from a serious injury and medical scare. He often retaliates when players target him, I imagine in part because of his recent medical history. He played very well in big minutes in a series win against the Flyers where he accumulated many points. The elite defensemen left in the playoffs include Letang, Burns, Subban, Ellis, Carlson, Wereinski, Jones, Hedman, Chara, and ? Would you trade any of those players with Letang right now? I like Hedman a lot, but I’m sure if I went to the Tampa board I could find people complaining about him, too.

 

[Shockmaster]

I don't think Flyers fans get that just making the playoffs means their head coach probably bought himself another 2 seasons. They all assume he's going to get fired soon.

 

[Deport Ogie]

There aren’t many cerebral types like Murphy and Lidstrom left at the position these days. These guys play off emotion and instincts, and more often than not, it works quite well for them, despite the mistakes they make all over the ice.

This is darn true and I have to wonder at the fact that one of those types was his immediate predecessor and it gives such a direct look at the contrast between Letang and Gonchar.

They are both offensive PMD types but other than that, I'm not sure they could be much more disparate in a lot of their style. Did Gonch ever show emotion? Like at all? He scored that one OT winner and unleashed an epic fist pump and I think I was honestly taken aback by it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Suter is the closest to Lidstrom I would say. Hedman is fantastic defensively and offensively. But even he can be a hothead and make some really dumb plays.


I never got why people wanted to trade Letang+! For OEL. If they watched the Coyoetes, they would see that he is making just as many dumb plays as Letang and isn't as good as him.

OEL has a cannon on the PP which people for some reason have believed is a necessity ever since Gonchar left while we put up the best PP numbers in Penguins history this year.

 

[Fatty McLardy]

speaking of Letang, that could've easily been 2 straight penalties on him, and honestly should've been. Would've been pissed myself if someone on the flyers did that to a pens player and ended up scoring a goal. Basically the guy went full tard in the last portion of the game with the undisciplined plays.

 

[Return of the Paek]

Suter is the closest to Lidstrom I would say. Hedman is fantastic defensively and offensively. But even he can be a hothead and make some really dumb plays.


I never got why people wanted to trade Letang+! For OEL. If they watched the Coyoetes, they would see that he is making just as many dumb plays as Letang and isn't as good as him.

Agree with all of this, but is there any chance we convince the Yotes to trade us OEL for his final season under contract. Pens are in complete win now mode and will be for the next couple years. Would love if our Pairings were:

8-58
23-4
3- Oleksiak/Whoever

Not sure if that's a pipe dream based on what it will take to get him/cap considerations. Although, I think they should be able to get Hunwick off of the books even if there is no return.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

speaking of Letang, that could've easily been 2 straight penalties on him, and honestly should've been. Would've been pissed myself if someone on the flyers did that to a pens player and ended up scoring a goal. Basically the guy went full tard in the last portion of the game with the undisciplined plays.

Except that was the right no call.

Tripping – A player shall not place the stick, knee, foot, arm, hand or elbow in such a manner that causes his opponent to trip or fall. Accidental trips which occur simultaneously with a completed play will not be penalized. Accidental trips occurring simultaneously with or after a stoppage of play will not be penalized.

The rule relating to "Tripping" will be revised to specifically provide that a two minute minor penalty will be assessed when a defending player "dives" and trips an attacking player with his body/arm/shoulder, regardless of whether the defending player is able to make initial contact with the puck.

 

[Turin]

The same guys who "filled in" his minutes during 2017 POs? Maatta and Schultz are 2 very talented, #2-#3 caliber D men.

Listen. Letang is surely talented and can be a huge + player at times for this team. The problem is that his decision making, effort, and positioning also can be just as huge of a negative. He is basically a (2010-2016) MAF in defender's clothes. I don't know if you CAN change him now, but the fact is that he has to start + contributing to this team on a consistent basis to justify his 7mil contract. We were a very good team this year, yet he still managed a negative 5v5 GF%. If he's not helping us outscore the other team at 5v5 when he is on the ice, is he really helping us win many games?

Corsica | Skater Stats

Over the last 3 seasons, he only has a 47% GF% at 5v5. IT IS THE WORST AMONG ALL OTHER PIT D DURING THAT TIME. That is -18 goals over that very large sample (or -6 goals/ season) he costs us at 5v5. It's up to the rest of the team to make those up somewhere just to counter his negative impact while on the ice. This isn't your #6 D man that you can limit exposure either. Its the guy you should be wanting to jump over the boards during ANY situation in ANY game. It is a huge problem that would absolutely be dealt with were we not to have Maatta and Schultz picking up the 5v5 slack.

This is the worst use of stats I’ve ever seen. You realize GF% is just plus/minus at ES right? Nobody takes +\- seriously. GF% is only indicative of how a team is doing overall, not individual players. It’s funny how you go to Corsica to try to say that Letang sucks but Letang is the biggest possession driver from the backend the last 3 years on the team and it’s not close. It’s not a coincidence that the teams shot metrics went to hell last season without him, and are back to being elite with him back.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This is the worst use of stats I’ve ever seen. You realize GF% is just plus/minus at ES right? Nobody takes +\- seriously. GF% is only indicitstive of how a team is doing overall, not individual players. It’s funny how you go to Corsica to try to say that Letang sucks but Letang is the biggest possession driver from the backend the last 3 years on the team and it’s not close. It’s not a coincidence that the teams shot metrics went to hell last season without him, and are back to being elite with him back.

man if this is the worst you've seen, you haven't been a part of many wgknestrick discussions Dude had TK pegged as one of the best playmakers in the league due to some even strength assists per 60 min stats.

 

[Turin]

This is darn true and I have to wonder at the fact that one of those types was his immediate predecessor and it gives such a direct look at the contrast between Letang and Gonchar.

They are both offensive PMD types but other than that, I'm not sure they could be much more disparate in a lot of their style. Did Gonch ever show emotion? Like at all? He scored that one OT winner and unleashed an epic fist pump and I think I was honestly taken aback by it.

Buttended Hartnell and it was glorious. I think he also “fought” somebody in 09, maybe it was 08.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Suter is the closest to Lidstrom I would say. Hedman is fantastic defensively and offensively. But even he can be a hothead and make some really dumb plays.

I never got why people wanted to trade Letang+! For OEL. If they watched the Coyoetes, they would see that he is making just as many dumb plays as Letang and isn't as good as him.

I’m pretty confident most of the people calling for Letang to be moved, don’t watch other players of his ilk very often.

Ya, it would be nice if Letang went full Crosby and skated away, but he’s come a LONG way from that 2012 shit fest with Philly. He was embrassing himself then with his behavior.

But ya, both he and Malkin absolutely have to smarten up and find their inner zen moving fwd. Most especially if they end up facing Boston. That team is full of sneaky cheapshot artists and their antics work in their favor a majority of the time. They aren’t big dumb oafs like Wilson that drag their knuckles on the ice, they know exactly what they can get away with and how to game the refs.

Boston will have a field day with Malkin and Letang if they don’t control their tempers... I’m 100% sure.

 

[Turin]

man if this is the worst you've seen, you haven't been a part of many wgknestrick discussions Dude had TK pegged as one of the best playmakers in the league due to some even strength assists per 60 min stats.

Yikes. Tyler Kennedy had like 5 assists in his life that weren’t him feeding it to Staal for a onetime in the slot, and they were probably shots.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

speaking of Letang, that could've easily been 2 straight penalties on him, and honestly should've been. Would've been pissed myself if someone on the flyers did that to a pens player and ended up scoring a goal. Basically the guy went full tard in the last portion of the game with the undisciplined plays.

No one is saying it, but that is a large part of why Letang did not get penalized. The Pens just came off a PK, including a minute and a half of 4 on 3 which is much worse than 5 on 4.

Flyers' fans can not have it both ways, they lived by crossing the line 50 times a game with the belief that the NHL could not penalize all 50 times, hell Giroux punched Jake in the face at the start of the third period uncalled.

So when the Pens came off the PK they were not going to call another 30 seconds later on the same guy absent blood being drawn. Like it or hate it that is the NHL. That Jake scored 5 seconds later made the optics worse, but only a fool or someone self delusional did not know what went on there.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I’m pretty confident most of the people calling for Letang to be moved, don’t watch other players of his ilk very often.

This is definitely it for me. If we traded Letang for any of the other top offensive D-men, it would be the same thing with a different name. People would bitch about Josi and romanticize Letang.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I’m pretty confident most of the people calling for Letang to be moved, don’t watch other players of his ilk very often.

Ya, it would be nice if Letang went full Crosby and skated away, but he’s come a LONG way from that 2012 **** fest with Philly. He was embrassing himself then with his behavior.

But ya, both he and Malkin absolutely have to smarten up and find their inner zen moving fwd. Most especially if they end up facing Boston. That team is full of sneaky cheapshot artists and their antics work in their favor a majority of the time. They aren’t big dumb oafs like Wilson that drag their knuckles on the ice, they know exactly what they can get away with and how to game the refs.

Boston will have a field day with Malkin and Letang if they don’t control their tempers... I’m 100% sure.

What shocks me is that Gonchar has been the defenseman whisperer in being the guru of turning broken defensemen around on this team but has not been able to get through to Letang more than he has.

 

[Pancakes]

There seems to be an undue insinuation that if I say the Flyers were terrible in those games, and they were, that that somehow means the Penguins had nothing to do with it. Like I've said before, the Penguins can play really well and win a game that looks like the other team is interested. A couple of those games looked like some of the Buffalo regular season games of the past few years, and in the playoffs no less. Obviously I think the Penguins played really well comparatively.

To me, in game 2 the Penguins didn't play poorly at all. The Flyers buried their chances to their credit, but it was a decent hockey game. Game 5 was an overall decent game as well where we made a critical error or two. Game 6 was a great playoff game that broke hard in the Penguins' direction after the controversial play with Letang and Couturier (after that the Flyers had no one to blame but themselves of course).

The Penguins played well overall. They deserved to win the series. They're clearly the better team and showed it. That said, there's a difference between your opponent not executing and just flat out failing to compete at a reasonable level in the playoffs. Watching the other series', every other team looked far different than the Flyers in most of their losses, even if they lost big.

See I just disagree that the compete level wasn't there in the losses. It was. We racked up shots, we took dumb penalties. The care was there.

The execution/results were not. Saying the Pens treated those losses like they were exhibition games is just not accurate in my mind.

 

[Pancakes]

It's honestly mind boggling that we just won a series in 6 games (wasn't even close), and users are calling for Letang (who has 7 points in those 6 games) to be demoted or traded.

Letang had some maddening errors in this series like always, but he was more good than bad.

That's basically his career in a nutshell. Maddening mistakes, but more good than bad. I do not want him traded, however much he might upset me. Not unless we could get a lion's haul.

 

[Al Smith]

Letang had some maddening errors in this series like always, but he was more good than bad.

That's basically his career in a nutshell. Maddening mistakes, but more good than bad. I do not want him traded, however much he might upset me. Not unless we could get a lion's haul.

Other than his indecisiveness at times on the PP, which drives me crazy, I’m ok with 58. As others have said, you get the whole package with him, which is usually more good than bad. However, like everyone else, he is tradeable at the right price.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

 

[PensandCaps]

This is definitely it for me. If we traded Letang for any of the other top offensive D-men, it would be the same thing with a different name. People would ***** about Josi and romanticize Letang.

Josi at 4 mil though. what a steal.

 

[billybudd]

We just walloped our hated cross-state rival in a tense comeback win in which we ended the game with a touchdown + two point conversion and we've spent the last 4 pages bitching about Kris Letang, who went point per game in the series.

Little perspective people.