Salary Cap: Penguins 2013-14 cap/roster building discussion (Contract chart in Post #2)

[Waffle Fries]

Sid will never perform in the playoffs without scoring depth to relieve the pressure. Teams can't load up against the Crosby-line defensively with impunity. Our third and fourth lines need to be able to produce when they are committing their defensive assets to Crosby. It is the single reason why Kane and Towes are so successful in the playoffs.... depth.

Also, we need players that are going to actually stand-up for Crosby. Kunitz just can't do it anymore, if he ever did. Staal should of left Consol on a stretcher (exaggeration) for all the shots he took at Crosby, and Lunqvist should of gotten something as well for that disrespectful bottle squirt. Imagine if someone took a water bottle and squirted it in Mario's face? Geez.

We need depth, but even with all the depth in the world he won't do **** with Brian Gibbons on his right wing.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Sid will never perform in the playoffs without scoring depth to relieve the pressure. Teams can't load up against the Crosby-line defensively with impunity. Our third and fourth lines need to be able to produce when they are committing their defensive assets to Crosby. It is the single reason why Kane and Towes are so successful in the playoffs.... depth.

Also, we need players that are going to actually stand-up for Crosby. Kunitz just can't do it anymore, if he ever did. Staal should of left Consol on a stretcher (exaggeration) for all the shots he took at Crosby, and Lunqvist should of gotten something as well for that disrespectful bottle squirt. Imagine if someone took a water bottle and squirted it in Mario's face? Geez.

Pens had more then enough depth scoring during the playoffs, it was the primary scoring that let them down(except for Malkin)

 

[PensPlz]

Pens had more then enough depth scoring during the playoffs, it was the primary scoring that let them down(except for Malkin)

What scoring depth? Jokinen? Yeah, he broke through a couple times because they were smothering our primary scorers. Wasn't enough the last I checked, considering we lost.

Smother the Crosby line + roll the dice on the Malkin line + ignore the 3rd and 4th lines = Pens out of the playoffs for the 5th straight year. Same formula every year.

 

[IPreferPi]

Yeah I don't quite understand his role on that team. I was browsing their roster building thread and half of the posters have him on the first while the other half have him on the third.

I feel like Sutter+ could do it, but we might want to save Sutter for a winger.

Wait, what? Hanzal's role is pretty clear on the Yotes - he's our primary shutdown center who can produce at a 2C level when healthy. One of the big reasons why the Yotes have been able to stay competitive in the Pacific over the past 5 years instead of being demolished by the likes of Thorton, Kopitar, and Getzlaf.

Hanzal is a core piece that's about to enter his prime on an excellent contract - it's going to take a lot more than Sutter to get him from us.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Wait, what? Hanzal's role is pretty clear on the Yotes - he's our primary shutdown center who can produce at a 2C level when healthy. One of the big reasons why the Yotes have been able to stay competitive in the Pacific over the past 5 years instead of being demolished by the likes of Thorton, Kopitar, and Getzlaf.

Hanzal is a core piece that's about to enter his prime on an excellent contract - it's going to take a lot more than Sutter to get him from us.

I meant what line he was playing on. And there's a reason that I put a plus next to Sutter's name

 

[lastcupever75]

keep at all costs - geno - sid

keep - bort, vitale
both great at their roles. they play like they give a ****. bort is the perfect 4/5 D man a team would want. im even impressed more and more with his offensive skill. had some slick passes tonight

get rid of - everyone else.
i might hesitate a bit with letang and neal because i think they are talented and can play a playoff type game if the roster around them is built to that sort of team.
but, if everyone else around them floats around...then they are garbage too

 

[IPreferPi]

I meant what line he was playing on. And there's a reason that I put a plus next to Sutter's name

There isn't an easy answer to that question. Ribeiro was supposed to be our long-overdue answer at 1C, but Tippett has continually paired him with a revolving door of grinders and defensive wingers who would all lose a shot accuracy contest to a blind person. As Ribs's production got cold in the final 25 games, his minutes also were reduced to around 3C levels.

In terms of total TOI/game and QoC Hanzal is a close 2nd to Vermette. I would say that Tippett uses Hanzal's and Vermette's lines as a 1A/1B combo although they're really a 2C/3C at this point in their careers.

But again, I repeat that it's going to take a lot more than Sutter to land Hanzal on the Pens.

 

[cheesedanish87]

What scoring depth? Jokinen? Yeah, he broke through a couple times because they were smothering our primary scorers. Wasn't enough the last I checked, considering we lost.

Smother the Crosby line + roll the dice on the Malkin line + ignore the 3rd and 4th lines = Pens out of the playoffs for the 5th straight year. Same formula every year.

JJ scored a couple times? He had 7 goals

Sutter had 5 goals

Stemp Nisky and Gibbons chipped in with 2 goals each, that's a ton of goals from your depth players in 13 playoff games, the depth scoring this playoffs was one of the positive things this postseason.

Your blaming the wrong players.

 

[lastcupever75]

Oh no! They'll never be able to replace a 4th liner!

After 5 seasons of underachievement, people need to get over their favorite marginal NHL players.

true. its easy replacing a 4th liner

but the way he plays is what this team needs more of, not less

 

[lastcupever75]

Yeah, because Vitale will turn the Penguins into a dynasty. He's a maginal NHLer. He can leave with the rest of them. This team's forward group needs a major overhaul.

who would you ideally have centering the 4th line?

 

[lastcupever75]

Sid will never perform in the playoffs without scoring depth to relieve the pressure. Teams can't load up against the Crosby-line defensively with impunity. Our third and fourth lines need to be able to produce when they are committing their defensive assets to Crosby. It is the single reason why Kane and Towes are so successful in the playoffs.... depth.

Also, we need players that are going to actually stand-up for Crosby. Kunitz just can't do it anymore, if he ever did. Staal should of left Consol on a stretcher (exaggeration) for all the shots he took at Crosby, and Lunqvist should of gotten something as well for that disrespectful bottle squirt. Imagine if someone took a water bottle and squirted it in Mario's face? Geez.

i said it when dubi first tried to get at sid, and i said it when kasperitis did the same in the series the ilses stopped our consecutive cups.

after the first time it happens, you ram that player.
yeah, so what they get a 2 min PP from it.
send the message early and then stay on his ass with hard play, and now that target has been transferred away from your star player

im still upset that tocchet didnt rearrange kasper's nose back then

 

[SEALBound]

We all know the Einstein quote about insanity. I feel like changes are coming this time. Too much talk about it. Please owners...please don't let this season be in vein. To ignore the problem is to grow the problem. It's a cancer...it must be stopped and destroyed.

The real question here is...how much does management want to change things? If management is looking for a scapegoat...they will find many. It will be easy. If they want the change they have to start by looking deed inside themselves. What kind of culture have they bred in the organization? Are they responsible for enabling such behaviors? I believe they are. I believe they want the country club / family atmosphere / exceptionalism atmosphere. THAT is where this rebuild (yes rebuild) needs to start.

This team can no longer be a family. The coaches can no longer be friends. This can no longer be a 9-5, 40hr/wk job team. No more ring the bell, get food.

This summer needs to be "The Summer of Hurt Feelings". At it starts at the top.

Lemieux, Burkle, etc all need to admit to the failures and dedicate themselves to fixing it.

I will give Shero the benefit of the doubt one last time. He gets one last off season, season, TDL to fix this mess. One more flameout, bu-bye.

Sorry Dan. I know everyone likes you but you have to go. This is long overdue and should NOT be unexpected. You know it, the players know it, the organization knows it, the media knows it, and the fans know it. This needs to happen in the worst way. I can not stress how important it is to remove Bylsma and the other assistants, save for Martin, from this team. Every bit of Bylsma needs to be removed from this organization and that includes in WBS. Stricken from the records, out of site out of mind, gone forever. Good ****in riddens.

Next the players. We all know we need to keep Sid and Geno. That should be, if not already, a given. No other way to put it. They stay.

The only other player that should be untouchable is Olli Maatta. Yes he was mediocre down the stretch but there is too much upside to the kid. Save for a 1:1 for a MacKinnon like deal...he stays.

Here's where it gets tough (for the organization at least). You need to take guys aside and lay it out. Kunitz...you are getting old but you compliment Sid well. Although you were awful in the post season you need to pick it up or else you will be asked to waive your NTC.

Dupuis. I know you and Sid are besties and room together and like to play together...but it no longer gets the job done the way it needs to get done. You will be put in the 3rd line never to reach the Top 6 again. If you take issue with that, you can ask to be traded and we will gladly, gladly, GLADLY oblige. In fact, if there is a deal to be made...you WILL be asked to waive. If not, you may be asked to report to WBS. I know you are a vocal leader and everyone likes you...but guess what, leaders have failed the last 5 years. Your leadership is clearly not as great as you think it is.

Neal. You're a former 40 goal scorer that completely disappeared in the playoffs while your questionable Cooke-esque behavior increased. Although you are on a sweet deal for us, if the right deal comes along, bu-bye. I know you're besties with Geno...but thems the breaks.

Jokinen. You were a steal for the cap hit but I do not believe 1. we will be able to justify your salary and 2. there will be a logical spot for you on next years roster. Thank you for the goals, we wish you the best.

Sutter. You went from ***** to beast. We need it on a regular basis at a reasonable cap hit. You want $4mil we will make the trade. You are not Staal, you are not what the bottom 6 truly needs, and due to your great post season your trade value is at an all time high. If the right deal comes around, thanks for the memories we wish you well.

Bennett. You are our one and only offensive prospect. You do a lot of things right but there are still huge questions. If the right deal comes along, pack your bags. If not, you will start on the 3rd line. Prove you belong elsewhere. As a free gift we will put you on your correct side.

Glass. GTFO. You WILL NOT be resigned. Start looking elsewhere. There will be no further discussion.

Adams. The only reason why you were on the team was because you were a pet player of the former coach. You will not be on the roster next year. If you are, it will be as the 14-16th guy. If that's ok with you great. If not we will seek a trade or waive you. Your leadership clearly is not working and is quite honestly a joke all things considered. Your PK speciality can be replaced.

Megna. There is promise with you. Please be patient in WBS, rock our socks off when you're called up.

Gibbons. See Megna. I love your speed on the PK. You can be lethal. You and Megna shall battle for a 4th line spot. When you get the opportunities, make the most of them.

Vitale. You are the ideal 4C. You will be back. Keep bringing the energy.

Martin. Thank you for being a rock this year.

Letang. You are perhaps the biggest question mark on the team. At times you justify your future contract. Other times you barely look like a NHLer. We need more. We need more consistency. Right now you have among the highest trade value on the team. I know Shero promised he wouldn't trade you...but things have changed. The team needs change and if there is an opportunity to make the team better by shipping you out, thanks for the memories, no hard feelings.

Orpik. You will not be back. Go away. Good luck with the knee.

Scuderi. I know we just signed you, I know it was a mistake letting you go, and I know you played well before the injury. But right now you are one of the most expensive mistakes on the roster and with the prospect pool at D we have, it makes little sense to hang on to you. We will try to trade you for a pick to a team that can utilize you. Thanks for 09.

Bortuzzo. You will take Orpik's place.

Despres. Thank you for your patience. You will be on the roster next year.

Maatta. Outstanding rookie year.

Niskanen. I really, really, REALLY hope you consider coming back at a cost we can afford. You were a rock this year. We want, we need you back.

Fleury. After so many post season flubs you are on the hot seat as much as anyone. If we can find a taker for you, we will. The goalie market is flooded right now. I know you have a lot of friends here but change is needed and you are one of the biggest question marks every post season. We need more. Thanks for the memories, no hard feelings.

Zatkoff. Dear god dude.

Vokoun. I wish you the very, VERY best of health. We will be moving on.

NO ONE should be immune this off season except Sid, Geno, and Maatta. No more keeping people around because they are leaders, because they have friends on the team, or because people like playing with them. That needs to end right now. Right now! I don't care about NTC or handshake deals or your Pittsburgh legacy. Right now that should all mean absolute ****. If you piss people off or hurt anyone's feelings TOO FICKING BAD! Time for hugs and kisses and cuddles is done. It's over. From top to bottom.

When looking at new players, think youth and size. Gotta give to get. This coming draft...if Shero takes a defenseman in the 1st round he needs to be fired in the worst, most painful way imaginable. With that, check your scouts. We never find the late round jems. Hire a scout or two from Detroit if you have to. But for the love of God get a few decent forward/wing prospects. It a crippling shortcoming of this organization. Instead of Hurtles, Ninos, Coyles, Nyquists, Jurcos, Manthas, etc...we have Bennett...Gibbons...Harry Z...Kobasew.

Speak of which, NO MORE RECLAMATION PROJECTS! No more Kobasews, DAgis, Comries, Parks, etc. Youth. Sign youth. Scout the NCAA games and poach some tough young college guys...not some broken down vet.

This rebuild requires the dedication from everyone top to bottom. If Sid or Geno ain't down with it, you MAKE them down with it. That is what Lemieux, Shero, and the new coach (WHO IS NOT NOT NOT!!!! BYLSMA!) should be doing. On the flip side, bring in people Sid can play with. No more Gibbons, no more Dupuis, Guerins, etc. It doesn't work, the team needs the change, and Sid more than anyone needs the change. Let him pout...but dear god get him a winger.

In doing so we need the Shero of 06-08. The guy who will go out and make the moves. The daring moves, the bold moves, the shocking moves, the high risk moves. Not the dumb ones. Not the blysma, Kunitz, Dupuis, Glass, Adams, Letang extension moves. The blockbuster bring in Ron Francis and Ulf moves. The bring in Hossa moves. And again...don't be afraid to hurt some feeling doing it. If you're NOT hurting feelings, you're doing it WRONG!

I will have to do some serious thinking about some potential moves but off the top of my head, Kane/Wheeler/Ladd/Kulemin/ROR/ should be in the forefront. Consider Steve Downie...or check with Minnasota and see if we can snag Cooke back. Maybe send over a significant piece and get Coyle back too?

Too many options, too many potential signings, too many potential trades to make 1-2 minor moves. Get the word out that the roster is available and see who calls. Who knows what other GMs might want. But you gotta put your dick out there and not be afraid to get it slapped or chopped off. Grow some balls.

But first and foremost, GET RID OF DAN BYLSMA and make it absolutely clear that NO ONE is safe.

Next season there should be no guarenteed spots. That **** is done and has been way, way, WAY past due. Adams I don't give a **** what you do or what you say or who likes you...you had no business on this roster for the vast majority of the season. You and Glass both. Those days need to be done. Make it clear to the new coach that pet players aside from Sid or Geno will not be tolerated.

Time to nut up or shut up. Time to establish ourselves for the present and the future. Don't let this season be in vein. Everyone deserves more. Owners need more, Management needs more, the players need more, and the fans need more. Start it tomorrow. Keep pushing and never get comfortable until there is another Cup on the shelf. The price of greatness is eternal vigilance.

Make it happen.

 

[Beauner]

Zatkoff. Dear god dude.

I burst out laughing at this just imagining Lemieux, Shero, etc. telling him this.

 

[lastcupever75]

We all know the Einstein quote about insanity. I feel like changes are coming this time. Too much talk about it. Please owners...please don't let this season be in vein. To ignore the problem is to grow the problem. It's a cancer...it must be stopped and destroyed.

The real question here is...how much does management want to change things? If management is looking for a scapegoat...they will find many. It will be easy. If they want the change they have to start by looking deed inside themselves. What kind of culture have they bred in the organization? Are they responsible for enabling such behaviors? I believe they are. I believe they want the country club / family atmosphere / exceptionalism atmosphere. THAT is where this rebuild (yes rebuild) needs to start.

This team can no longer be a family. The coaches can no longer be friends. This can no longer be a 9-5, 40hr/wk job team. No more ring the bell, get food.

This summer needs to be "The Summer of Hurt Feelings". At it starts at the top.

Lemieux, Burkle, etc all need to admit to the failures and dedicate themselves to fixing it.

I will give Shero the benefit of the doubt one last time. He gets one last off season, season, TDL to fix this mess. One more flameout, bu-bye.

Sorry Dan. I know everyone likes you but you have to go. This is long overdue and should NOT be unexpected. You know it, the players know it, the organization knows it, the media knows it, and the fans know it. This needs to happen in the worst way. I can not stress how important it is to remove Bylsma and the other assistants, save for Martin, from this team. Every bit of Bylsma needs to be removed from this organization and that includes in WBS. Stricken from the records, out of site out of mind, gone forever. Good ****in riddens.

Next the players. We all know we need to keep Sid and Geno. That should be, if not already, a given. No other way to put it. They stay.

The only other player that should be untouchable is Olli Maatta. Yes he was mediocre down the stretch but there is too much upside to the kid. Save for a 1:1 for a MacKinnon like deal...he stays.

Here's where it gets tough (for the organization at least). You need to take guys aside and lay it out. Kunitz...you are getting old but you compliment Sid well. Although you were awful in the post season you need to pick it up or else you will be asked to waive your NTC.

Dupuis. I know you and Sid are besties and room together and like to play together...but it no longer gets the job done the way it needs to get done. You will be put in the 3rd line never to reach the Top 6 again. If you take issue with that, you can ask to be traded and we will gladly, gladly, GLADLY oblige. In fact, if there is a deal to be made...you WILL be asked to waive. If not, you may be asked to report to WBS. I know you are a vocal leader and everyone likes you...but guess what, leaders have failed the last 5 years. Your leadership is clearly not as great as you think it is.

Neal. You're a former 40 goal scorer that completely disappeared in the playoffs while your questionable Cooke-esque behavior increased. Although you are on a sweet deal for us, if the right deal comes along, bu-bye. I know you're besties with Geno...but thems the breaks.

Jokinen. You were a steal for the cap hit but I do not believe 1. we will be able to justify your salary and 2. there will be a logical spot for you on next years roster. Thank you for the goals, we wish you the best.

Sutter. You went from ***** to beast. We need it on a regular basis at a reasonable cap hit. You want $4mil we will make the trade. You are not Staal, you are not what the bottom 6 truly needs, and due to your great post season your trade value is at an all time high. If the right deal comes around, thanks for the memories we wish you well.

Bennett. You are our one and only offensive prospect. You do a lot of things right but there are still huge questions. If the right deal comes along, pack your bags. If not, you will start on the 3rd line. Prove you belong elsewhere. As a free gift we will put you on your correct side.

Glass. GTFO. You WILL NOT be resigned. Start looking elsewhere. There will be no further discussion.

Adams. The only reason why you were on the team was because you were a pet player of the former coach. You will not be on the roster next year. If you are, it will be as the 14-16th guy. If that's ok with you great. If not we will seek a trade or waive you. Your leadership clearly is not working and is quite honestly a joke all things considered. Your PK speciality can be replaced.

Megna. There is promise with you. Please be patient in WBS, rock our socks off when you're called up.

Gibbons. See Megna. I love your speed on the PK. You can be lethal. You and Megna shall battle for a 4th line spot. When you get the opportunities, make the most of them.

Vitale. You are the ideal 4C. You will be back. Keep bringing the energy.

Martin. Thank you for being a rock this year.

Letang. You are perhaps the biggest question mark on the team. At times you justify your future contract. Other times you barely look like a NHLer. We need more. We need more consistency. Right now you have among the highest trade value on the team. I know Shero promised he wouldn't trade you...but things have changed. The team needs change and if there is an opportunity to make the team better by shipping you out, thanks for the memories, no hard feelings.

Orpik. You will not be back. Go away. Good luck with the knee.

Scuderi. I know we just signed you, I know it was a mistake letting you go, and I know you played well before the injury. But right now you are one of the most expensive mistakes on the roster and with the prospect pool at D we have, it makes little sense to hang on to you. We will try to trade you for a pick to a team that can utilize you. Thanks for 09.

Bortuzzo. You will take Orpik's place.

Despres. Thank you for your patience. You will be on the roster next year.

Maatta. Outstanding rookie year.

Niskanen. I really, really, REALLY hope you consider coming back at a cost we can afford. You were a rock this year. We want, we need you back.

Fleury. After so many post season flubs you are on the hot seat as much as anyone. If we can find a taker for you, we will. The goalie market is flooded right now. I know you have a lot of friends here but change is needed and you are one of the biggest question marks every post season. We need more. Thanks for the memories, no hard feelings.

Zatkoff. Dear god dude.

Vokoun. I wish you the very, VERY best of health. We will be moving on.

NO ONE should be immune this off season except Sid, Geno, and Maatta. No more keeping people around because they are leaders, because they have friends on the team, or because people like playing with them. That needs to end right now. Right now! I don't care about NTC or handshake deals or your Pittsburgh legacy. Right now that should all mean absolute ****. If you piss people off or hurt anyone's feelings TOO FICKING BAD! Time for hugs and kisses and cuddles is done. It's over. From top to bottom.

When looking at new players, think youth and size. Gotta give to get. This coming draft...if Shero takes a defenseman in the 1st round he needs to be fired in the worst, most painful way imaginable. With that, check your scouts. We never find the late round jems. Hire a scout or two from Detroit if you have to. But for the love of God get a few decent forward/wing prospects. It a crippling shortcoming of this organization. Instead of Hurtles, Ninos, Coyles, Nyquists, Jurcos, Manthas, etc...we have Bennett...Gibbons...Harry Z...Kobasew.

Speak of which, NO MORE RECLAMATION PROJECTS! No more Kobasews, DAgis, Comries, Parks, etc. Youth. Sign youth. Scout the NCAA games and poach some tough young college guys...not some broken down vet.

This rebuild requires the dedication from everyone top to bottom. If Sid or Geno ain't down with it, you MAKE them down with it. That is what Lemieux, Shero, and the new coach (WHO IS NOT NOT NOT!!!! BYLSMA!) should be doing. On the flip side, bring in people Sid can play with. No more Gibbons, no more Dupuis, Guerins, etc. It doesn't work, the team needs the change, and Sid more than anyone needs the change. Let him pout...but dear god get him a winger.

In doing so we need the Shero of 06-08. The guy who will go out and make the moves. The daring moves, the bold moves, the shocking moves, the high risk moves. Not the dumb ones. Not the blysma, Kunitz, Dupuis, Glass, Adams, Letang extension moves. The blockbuster bring in Ron Francis and Ulf moves. The bring in Hossa moves. And again...don't be afraid to hurt some feeling doing it. If you're NOT hurting feelings, you're doing it WRONG!

I will have to do some serious thinking about some potential moves but off the top of my head, Kane/Wheeler/Ladd/Kulemin/ROR/ should be in the forefront. Consider Steve Downie...or check with Minnasota and see if we can snag Cooke back. Maybe send over a significant piece and get Coyle back too?

Too many options, too many potential signings, too many potential trades to make 1-2 minor moves. Get the word out that the roster is available and see who calls. Who knows what other GMs might want. But you gotta put your dick out there and not be afraid to get it slapped or chopped off. Grow some balls.

But first and foremost, GET RID OF DAN BYLSMA and make it absolutely clear that NO ONE is safe.

Next season there should be no guarenteed spots. That **** is done and has been way, way, WAY past due. Adams I don't give a **** what you do or what you say or who likes you...you had no business on this roster for the vast majority of the season. You and Glass both. Those days need to be done. Make it clear to the new coach that pet players aside from Sid or Geno will not be tolerated.

Time to nut up or shut up. Time to establish ourselves for the present and the future. Don't let this season be in vein. Everyone deserves more. Owners need more, Management needs more, the players need more, and the fans need more. Start it tomorrow. Keep pushing and never get comfortable until there is another Cup on the shelf. The price of greatness is eternal vigilance.

Make it happen.

good job

those are pretty much my sentiments.
except for a few of the players

 

[KIRK]

I know that this site is bull****, but I'm posting this (a) because it's still something totally believable and (b) I delight in watching Jiggy cry: http://insidepittsburghsports.com/s...hanges-could-also-include-gm-ray-shero/65063/.

Long story short, the 'claim' is that Shero had a two year verbal offer out there for Clarke MacArthur at the start of free agency and then pulled it when he learned Scuderi really was available and interested in a return.

As I said, bull****, but oh so believable.

 

[KIRK]

We all know the Einstein quote about insanity. I feel like changes are coming this time. Too much talk about it. Please owners...please don't let this season be in vein. To ignore the problem is to grow the problem. It's a cancer...it must be stopped and destroyed.

The real question here is...how much does management want to change things? If management is looking for a scapegoat...they will find many. It will be easy. If they want the change they have to start by looking deed inside themselves. What kind of culture have they bred in the organization? Are they responsible for enabling such behaviors? I believe they are. I believe they want the country club / family atmosphere / exceptionalism atmosphere. THAT is where this rebuild (yes rebuild) needs to start.

This team can no longer be a family. The coaches can no longer be friends. This can no longer be a 9-5, 40hr/wk job team. No more ring the bell, get food.

This summer needs to be "The Summer of Hurt Feelings". At it starts at the top.

Lemieux, Burkle, etc all need to admit to the failures and dedicate themselves to fixing it.

I will give Shero the benefit of the doubt one last time. He gets one last off season, season, TDL to fix this mess. One more flameout, bu-bye.

Sorry Dan. I know everyone likes you but you have to go. This is long overdue and should NOT be unexpected. You know it, the players know it, the organization knows it, the media knows it, and the fans know it. This needs to happen in the worst way. I can not stress how important it is to remove Bylsma and the other assistants, save for Martin, from this team. Every bit of Bylsma needs to be removed from this organization and that includes in WBS. Stricken from the records, out of site out of mind, gone forever. Good ****in riddens.

Next the players. We all know we need to keep Sid and Geno. That should be, if not already, a given. No other way to put it. They stay.

The only other player that should be untouchable is Olli Maatta. Yes he was mediocre down the stretch but there is too much upside to the kid. Save for a 1:1 for a MacKinnon like deal...he stays.

Here's where it gets tough (for the organization at least). You need to take guys aside and lay it out. Kunitz...you are getting old but you compliment Sid well. Although you were awful in the post season you need to pick it up or else you will be asked to waive your NTC.

Dupuis. I know you and Sid are besties and room together and like to play together...but it no longer gets the job done the way it needs to get done. You will be put in the 3rd line never to reach the Top 6 again. If you take issue with that, you can ask to be traded and we will gladly, gladly, GLADLY oblige. In fact, if there is a deal to be made...you WILL be asked to waive. If not, you may be asked to report to WBS. I know you are a vocal leader and everyone likes you...but guess what, leaders have failed the last 5 years. Your leadership is clearly not as great as you think it is.

Neal. You're a former 40 goal scorer that completely disappeared in the playoffs while your questionable Cooke-esque behavior increased. Although you are on a sweet deal for us, if the right deal comes along, bu-bye. I know you're besties with Geno...but thems the breaks.

Jokinen. You were a steal for the cap hit but I do not believe 1. we will be able to justify your salary and 2. there will be a logical spot for you on next years roster. Thank you for the goals, we wish you the best.

Sutter. You went from ***** to beast. We need it on a regular basis at a reasonable cap hit. You want $4mil we will make the trade. You are not Staal, you are not what the bottom 6 truly needs, and due to your great post season your trade value is at an all time high. If the right deal comes around, thanks for the memories we wish you well.

Bennett. You are our one and only offensive prospect. You do a lot of things right but there are still huge questions. If the right deal comes along, pack your bags. If not, you will start on the 3rd line. Prove you belong elsewhere. As a free gift we will put you on your correct side.

Glass. GTFO. You WILL NOT be resigned. Start looking elsewhere. There will be no further discussion.

Adams. The only reason why you were on the team was because you were a pet player of the former coach. You will not be on the roster next year. If you are, it will be as the 14-16th guy. If that's ok with you great. If not we will seek a trade or waive you. Your leadership clearly is not working and is quite honestly a joke all things considered. Your PK speciality can be replaced.

Megna. There is promise with you. Please be patient in WBS, rock our socks off when you're called up.

Gibbons. See Megna. I love your speed on the PK. You can be lethal. You and Megna shall battle for a 4th line spot. When you get the opportunities, make the most of them.

Vitale. You are the ideal 4C. You will be back. Keep bringing the energy.

Martin. Thank you for being a rock this year.

Letang. You are perhaps the biggest question mark on the team. At times you justify your future contract. Other times you barely look like a NHLer. We need more. We need more consistency. Right now you have among the highest trade value on the team. I know Shero promised he wouldn't trade you...but things have changed. The team needs change and if there is an opportunity to make the team better by shipping you out, thanks for the memories, no hard feelings.

Orpik. You will not be back. Go away. Good luck with the knee.

Scuderi. I know we just signed you, I know it was a mistake letting you go, and I know you played well before the injury. But right now you are one of the most expensive mistakes on the roster and with the prospect pool at D we have, it makes little sense to hang on to you. We will try to trade you for a pick to a team that can utilize you. Thanks for 09.

Bortuzzo. You will take Orpik's place.

Despres. Thank you for your patience. You will be on the roster next year.

Maatta. Outstanding rookie year.

Niskanen. I really, really, REALLY hope you consider coming back at a cost we can afford. You were a rock this year. We want, we need you back.

Fleury. After so many post season flubs you are on the hot seat as much as anyone. If we can find a taker for you, we will. The goalie market is flooded right now. I know you have a lot of friends here but change is needed and you are one of the biggest question marks every post season. We need more. Thanks for the memories, no hard feelings.

Zatkoff. Dear god dude.

Vokoun. I wish you the very, VERY best of health. We will be moving on.

NO ONE should be immune this off season except Sid, Geno, and Maatta. No more keeping people around because they are leaders, because they have friends on the team, or because people like playing with them. That needs to end right now. Right now! I don't care about NTC or handshake deals or your Pittsburgh legacy. Right now that should all mean absolute ****. If you piss people off or hurt anyone's feelings TOO FICKING BAD! Time for hugs and kisses and cuddles is done. It's over. From top to bottom.

When looking at new players, think youth and size. Gotta give to get. This coming draft...if Shero takes a defenseman in the 1st round he needs to be fired in the worst, most painful way imaginable. With that, check your scouts. We never find the late round jems. Hire a scout or two from Detroit if you have to. But for the love of God get a few decent forward/wing prospects. It a crippling shortcoming of this organization. Instead of Hurtles, Ninos, Coyles, Nyquists, Jurcos, Manthas, etc...we have Bennett...Gibbons...Harry Z...Kobasew.

Speak of which, NO MORE RECLAMATION PROJECTS! No more Kobasews, DAgis, Comries, Parks, etc. Youth. Sign youth. Scout the NCAA games and poach some tough young college guys...not some broken down vet.

This rebuild requires the dedication from everyone top to bottom. If Sid or Geno ain't down with it, you MAKE them down with it. That is what Lemieux, Shero, and the new coach (WHO IS NOT NOT NOT!!!! BYLSMA!) should be doing. On the flip side, bring in people Sid can play with. No more Gibbons, no more Dupuis, Guerins, etc. It doesn't work, the team needs the change, and Sid more than anyone needs the change. Let him pout...but dear god get him a winger.

In doing so we need the Shero of 06-08. The guy who will go out and make the moves. The daring moves, the bold moves, the shocking moves, the high risk moves. Not the dumb ones. Not the blysma, Kunitz, Dupuis, Glass, Adams, Letang extension moves. The blockbuster bring in Ron Francis and Ulf moves. The bring in Hossa moves. And again...don't be afraid to hurt some feeling doing it. If you're NOT hurting feelings, you're doing it WRONG!

I will have to do some serious thinking about some potential moves but off the top of my head, Kane/Wheeler/Ladd/Kulemin/ROR/ should be in the forefront. Consider Steve Downie...or check with Minnasota and see if we can snag Cooke back. Maybe send over a significant piece and get Coyle back too?

Too many options, too many potential signings, too many potential trades to make 1-2 minor moves. Get the word out that the roster is available and see who calls. Who knows what other GMs might want. But you gotta put your dick out there and not be afraid to get it slapped or chopped off. Grow some balls.

But first and foremost, GET RID OF DAN BYLSMA and make it absolutely clear that NO ONE is safe.

Next season there should be no guarenteed spots. That **** is done and has been way, way, WAY past due. Adams I don't give a **** what you do or what you say or who likes you...you had no business on this roster for the vast majority of the season. You and Glass both. Those days need to be done. Make it clear to the new coach that pet players aside from Sid or Geno will not be tolerated.

Time to nut up or shut up. Time to establish ourselves for the present and the future. Don't let this season be in vein. Everyone deserves more. Owners need more, Management needs more, the players need more, and the fans need more. Start it tomorrow. Keep pushing and never get comfortable until there is another Cup on the shelf. The price of greatness is eternal vigilance.

Make it happen.

I . . . agree.

EDIT: You trust Ray Shero to be the architect of these changes? Ok, found a reason to disagree.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

At this point, the moves I'd like to see made (aside from the obvious firing of the coaching staff and Shero):

1-Let Orpik, Glass, and Adams walk.
2-Trade Scuderi.
3-Trade Fleury.
4-Trade Dupuis.

That's basically the "cutting the fat" moves.

After that, I'd hope they can retool their lineup by moving at least one of the "big names". No, not Sid or Geno. But at this point, I'd be completely fine with dealing anyone else if it moved the Pens in a positive direction.

It's actually difficult to fully analyze this roster because there's just so much dead weight on it. Shero's assembled an ugly assortment of players, and some of them are on contracts that will be difficult to move.

 

[Zen Arcade]

At this point, the moves I'd like to see made (aside from the obvious firing of the coaching staff and Shero):

1-Let Orpik, Glass, and Adams walk.
2-Trade Scuderi.
3-Trade Fleury.
4-Trade Dupuis.

T

Adams is signed for another year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Adams is signed for another year.

Walk, waiver wire fodder, knee-capped so he's forced to retire.

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Shedding salary on D is a given but i think they really have to break up the happy family core somewhat.

Fleury - a given. trade him. buy him out. whatever.
Letang - a guy who could get good/great return.
Neal - same as Letang.
Kunitz or Dupuis

I'd really like to see some of these guys moved to really start a retool/culture change.

 

[darkbrew*]

What scoring depth? Jokinen? Yeah, he broke through a couple times because they were smothering our primary scorers. Wasn't enough the last I checked, considering we lost.

Smother the Crosby line + roll the dice on the Malkin line + ignore the 3rd and 4th lines = Pens out of the playoffs for the 5th straight year. Same formula every year.

Who scored for the rangers who beat us? Certainly wasn't the star Rick Nash. MSL was invisible most of the series. Zuccarello?

People need to get over this 'secondary scoring' thing. The team is deeper at forward than 2009.

Remember one of our top 6 forwards Dupuis was hurt. (yes i know you all despise dupuis with every fabric of your being, he is still better than gibbons)

If our third line is dupuis/sutter/1 FA aquisition how can we complain?

Where we lose is super awful breakdowns(second goal tonight was SO pittsburgh) shaky goaltending, soft D, and a few black hole players like glass and scuderi which can be fixed easily.

This team isn't far off the 2009 team honestly. They just need to shore up the D with someone steady that can actually pass and skate.


Really curious why anyone would want to trade Neal or Kunitz. Both are signed much BELOW market value. They sucked during the playoffs but guess whos fault that is? How about our coach who insists on stacking lines, not trying Kunitz in more of a third line role for a while, and giving Neal nobody that he meshes with.

Nobody we can replace those two with will do CLOSE to what they can for that price. It isn't happening.

Letang on the other hand is up for grabs and could/should go if its right.

 

[KIRK]

Who scored for the rangers who beat us? Certainly wasn't the star Rick Nash. MSL was invisible most of the series. Zuccarello?

People need to get over this 'secondary scoring' thing. The team is deeper at forward than 2009.

Remember one of our top 6 forwards Dupuis was hurt. (yes i know you all despise dupuis with every fabric of your being, he is still better than gibbons)

If our third line is dupuis/sutter/1 FA aquisition how can we complain?

Where we lose is super awful breakdowns(second goal tonight was SO pittsburgh) shaky goaltending, soft D, and a few black hole players like glass and scuderi which can be fixed easily.

This team isn't far off the 2009 team honestly. They just need to shore up the D with someone steady that can actually pass and skate.


Really curious why anyone would want to trade Neal or Kunitz. Both are signed much BELOW market value. They sucked during the playoffs but guess whos fault that is? How about our coach who insists on stacking lines, not trying Kunitz in more of a third line role for a while, and giving Neal nobody that he meshes with.

Nobody we can replace those two with will do CLOSE to what they can for that price. It isn't happening.

Letang on the other hand is up for grabs and could/should go if its right.

Not sure what's more inane, suggesting spending like 9-10M for a third line on a team desperate to surround Crosby and Malkin with talent or arguing that it's nuts to consider trading the two leeches who are supposedly godsends for them.

Give me a minute. I'll try to pick one.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Who scored for the rangers who beat us? Certainly wasn't the star Rick Nash. MSL was invisible most of the series. Zuccarello?

People need to get over this 'secondary scoring' thing. The team is deeper at forward than 2009.

Remember one of our top 6 forwards Dupuis was hurt. (yes i know you all despise dupuis with every fabric of your being, he is still better than gibbons)

If our third line is dupuis/sutter/1 FA aquisition how can we complain?

Where we lose is super awful breakdowns(second goal tonight was SO pittsburgh) shaky goaltending, soft D, and a few black hole players like glass and scuderi which can be fixed easily.

This team isn't far off the 2009 team honestly. They just need to shore up the D with someone steady that can actually pass and skate.


Really curious why anyone would want to trade Neal or Kunitz. Both are signed much BELOW market value. They sucked during the playoffs but guess whos fault that is? How about our coach who insists on stacking lines, not trying Kunitz in more of a third line role for a while, and giving Neal nobody that he meshes with.

Nobody we can replace those two with will do CLOSE to what they can for that price. It isn't happening.

Letang on the other hand is up for grabs and could/should go if its right.

I wouldn't be opposed to sending one of Kunitz/Neal out if a Kesler, E.Kane, or Wheeler are landed.

Really anything to break up this dysfunctional family. Fleury/Letang would be a better place to start, i agree.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Who scored for the rangers who beat us? Certainly wasn't the star Rick Nash. MSL was invisible most of the series. Zuccarello?

People need to get over this 'secondary scoring' thing. The team is deeper at forward than 2009.

Remember one of our top 6 forwards Dupuis was hurt. (yes i know you all despise dupuis with every fabric of your being, he is still better than gibbons)

If our third line is dupuis/sutter/1 FA aquisition how can we complain?

Where we lose is super awful breakdowns(second goal tonight was SO pittsburgh) shaky goaltending, soft D, and a few black hole players like glass and scuderi which can be fixed easily.

This team isn't far off the 2009 team honestly. They just need to shore up the D with someone steady that can actually pass and skate.


Really curious why anyone would want to trade Neal or Kunitz. Both are signed much BELOW market value. They sucked during the playoffs but guess whos fault that is? How about our coach who insists on stacking lines, not trying Kunitz in more of a third line role for a while, and giving Neal nobody that he meshes with.

Nobody we can replace those two with will do CLOSE to what they can for that price. It isn't happening.

Letang on the other hand is up for grabs and could/should go if its right.

The problem with people comparing this team to the 2009 team is that 2009 team was more a "catching lightning in a bottle" team than a "this looks like a dynasty" team.

Yes, you need luck to win the Cup. So every team that's won has, at some point, got a lucky bounce or a lucky break. But that 2009 team is arguably the weakest "on paper" Stanley Cup champion of the past decade. It took *both* Crosby and Malkin going into God-mode, as well as ridiculous contributions from a guy like Max Talbot (who you couldn't have predicted or planned for) to win it.

So my point being, you really shouldn't look at that roster and say, "we're as good as that team" if you're trying to build a Cup champion. Because I don't think that blueprint will ever win you a Cup again. Too much stuff has to go right, that otherwise is unlikely, for it to happen.

 

[cygnus47]

I think this team is WAY more talented than the 09 team. That team struggled until the 3rd round by the way and we avoided all the bad matchups and faced a banged up Red Wings team in the final. The thing that team had was an identity and the players to match it, along with a genuine desire from EVERYONE on the team to do their part, stick together and do whatever it takes to win. It was visceral. Our identity left along with Talbot and those guys. We are built like a skilled team with a coach who didn't know how to use it.

If Shero isn't canned his priorities should be:
1) Fire Bylsma and his assistants
2) Meeting with Sid and Geno, WBS staff, scouting staff and development coaches and figure out what the identity of the club is going to be. After that, no more pandering to players. It is decided.
3) Find a coach who fits that identity
4) Make a plan in terms of signings and drafting to fit that plan
5) Follow through on it