Speculation: Paul Martin for Justin Williams

[blueliner18]

Amen to that.

Concerning rumors, wasn't the Gogo for neal trade rumored for at least 2 weeks before it happened?? Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes that rumor was out there for awhile.

 

[gdsmack267]

Who even started the rumor?

 

[CrosbytoKessel]

Amen to that.

Concerning rumors, wasn't the Gogo for neal trade rumored for at least 2 weeks before it happened?? Correct me if I am wrong.

that is correct i believe

 

[Ugene Magic]

Who even started the rumor?

One say's Ryan Wilson at HockeyBuzz, then there's Madden, but who truly knows?

I'm still waiting on a confirmed LA. writer link. Have yet to see/find it.

 

[Michael8771*]

I honestly can't express enough with how much I don't think this deal will be happening. It makes too much sense and it would be too nice to actually have it happen. I basically give it a .0001% chance of happening.

I don't think it'll happen but that's a bit extreme.

 

[themethod7]

Count me as the lone skeptic about William's true ability to help this team. He's 2 years removed from actually playing at a top 6 level at 5v5. This year he is scoring at an equivalent (technically lower) rate as Spalling/Sutter. I see him as Morrow 2.0, and also think that Paul Martin is much more valuable to this team than he would be.

Would any of you trade Paul Martin for Spalling/Morrow?

Just because Williams once was a good player does not necessarily mean that he still is. I'd rather see us trade Martin for a younger, more "under the radar" forward though. Assuming a 33y old Williams will suddenly metamorphosis into a playoff beast is not a wise bet IMO.

That makes two of us - I think trading Martin is the right move, but only for the right return, and I'm not nearly as convinced as some here that Williams fits that bill.

 

[Shady Machine]

I would much rather trade Scuderi then trade Martin.

If your in a playoff series against a fast team like NYR or NYI(which i would say is likely to happen) a Scuderi Borts bottom paring will be very hard to watch against those type of teams.

I'd much rather have BB or Comeau in my top 6 then have Scuderi and Borts in my bottom pairing, but i'm sure i'l be in the minority on this one.

Not sure how that's relevant.

 

[Shady Machine]

It was discussed in the other thread. It´s a longshot and it isn´t even confirmed to be a rumor by a credible source. That said, I´m not even sure if I would do it. I mean, do we really want Bort in TOP4 or do we want Scuduzzo as our 3rd pair? Because that´s what would happen with our D if this deal is made. And if Maatta is not fine for the playoffs, then our D would be just a mess. We have seen that kids are close to being ready but they are not quite there.

Maatta-Letang
Despres-Ehrhoff
Dumo/Harry/Pouliot/Bort-Scuds

There are 4 options for that 3rd pairing spot (more if Scuds was benched). Not sure why we assume the 3rd pairing HAS to be Bort-Scuds or Bort in the top 4.

 

[billybudd]

Is a "younger" "under the radar" forward going to be available for Martin? There are complications to moving him. Most notably, other teams' cap situations and his NT clause, which lists an undetermined number of teams.

The bottom 10 teams aren't going to want him, full stop. Cap max teams are going to struggle to fit him in, or, if they're the Rangers, probably don't need him at all. Then you've got the issue of him potentially not liking a particular place's weather, tax laws or geography.

We can make an educated guess that the Kings aren't on his NT list (considering how close he came to signing with them). It's obvious (to me, at least) that they desperately need a guy like him. The player they'd be sending back gets them pretty close to being able to do this, cap-wise, and seems likely to leave, anyway.

Shopping Martin to other cities is more problematic. Chicago and Boston could use him, but can't take him. Winnipeg could use him, but he won't go there. He wouldn't hurt the Cats, but they probably don't want the salary. Philly needs him, but should be hoping to lose games, not win them.

In my opinion, maximizing his trade value in his last season probably means Williams. The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to think the "trade Martin for draft picks" ship may have sailed when camp started.

But I'll echo what others have said in that if Maatta's rehab fails, we're probably better off riding out the contract.

 

[Shady Machine]

Another thing, IMO if the Pens do go after another top 6 winger they need to solve the issue for the long term, not in getting a rental for a few months.

Generally agreed, but that's not happening in a Martin trade (unless it's a prospect). Only way to do that is trade Martin for picks/prospect that is then flipped for top 6 guy but that seems too far fetched to happen. JR already got us a long term top 6 guy, which is honestly more than I expected this year. Getting a proven guy like Williams doesn't happen very often. If the deal is on the table, JR better do it.

 

[Shady Machine]

Why not both?

Martins at TDL for Williams, then you move some young guns for a longer term top 6 and say Kunitz. Gives you a back-up in potential signing with williams plus the top 6 you brought in if Perron busts (highly unlikley but hey)


Yeah yeah i know, never gonna happen.

If we move Martin for Williams, we are set for the season. If you re-sign Ehrhoff, then you open up some options for prospect swaps in the off season.

 

[Son Goku]

I honestly can't express enough with how much I don't think this deal will be happening. It makes too much sense and it would be too nice to actually have it happen. I basically give it a .0001% chance of happening.

Getting Perron happened.

 

[Cherpak]

I know Williams has been a stud the last few years in the playoffs, and I do not discount that. However, if you put him in Pittsburgh you can only assume that there is a 50/50 chance he performs like that in the playoffs yet again. I was in Carolina when he won the cup with that team in 06' and he was a good player, but not Mr. Playoffs like he is with LA. I guess any trade is a chance taken though...?

You take that deal and run.

He has more playoff experience than Kane and JVR combined. Thats to include a Conn Smythe last year.

This is a no brainer if true.

 

[Shady Machine]

...otherwise the start of next season we'll be right back where we started this season. Some who show potential to be a top winger, but no standouts other than Hornqvist. Honestly JR brought in Comeau and Downie to be bottom six guys, not to be wings for Sid and Geno. I mean sure you can spot play them here and there, but giving them full top line minutes....ahhh I dunno.

Did you miss the news of David Perron being a Penguin?

 

[Shady Machine]

Honestly, I'm not sure the winger situation is as bad as Sid and Geno not putting the puck in the net on a regular basis.

Uhh they are related dogg.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think the Pens need to start having a "win now" mindset. Whatever it takes to win now, that's what they need to do. If trading Pouliot, Martin, Maatta gives you the right pieces of the puzzle, you do it. Seems like we have fallen into this "building for the future" phase. Nooo, don't trade the prospects, don't trade the defensemen that has already stated he is no doubt going to be a UFA next season. Why? What the hell are we waiting for, what the hell is everyone so worried about? If you trade Martin you have Ehrhoff. If you trade Maatta you have Pouliot, or Pouliot you have Maatta. What we do not have is a threat at wing. James Neal was not the answer either, if Geno didn't feed him the puck every shift he wouldn't have had half the goals he did for us. We need a winger that can create his own scoring opportunities and bury the puck. i.e. Evander Kane, if not him someone of the same skill set.

You sir are full of contradictions.

 

[blueliner18]

Did you miss the news of David Perron being a Penguin?

No and you're right to point that out, on the other hand Kunitz play is on the decline this season, and Pascal Dupuis well not to be a downer but I don't see him lacing up the skates again. So somewhat the same holes to fill just different players leaving those holes. Plus Downie and Comeau are only here on 1yr deals, so inserting them in the top 2 lines isn't a guarantee either.

 

[Winger for Hire]

No and you're right to point that out, on the other hand Kunitz play is on the decline this season, and Pascal Dupuis well not to be a downer but I don't see him lacing up the skates again. So somewhat the same holes to fill just different players leaving those holes. Plus Downie and Comeau are only here on 1yr deals, so inserting them in the top 2 lines isn't a guarantee either.

But at least he's not a Top 2 option anymore. I'm a lot more comfortable with him being #4/5 on the winger depth chart

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Williams is 34 this year. Honestly I'd pass, looking to get a younger guy rather than pay extra value for a Conn Smythe, and a guy who is incrementally going to look worse every year out.

 

[blueliner18]

You sir are full of contradictions.

How so...the last five years of Crosby and Geno's careers have been wasted. IMO a lot has contributed to that, but shouldn't we expect more than 1 cup so far with those two on our roster? Win now, how is that contradicting? If the Williams/Martin thing were to happen great, I just think there are greater packages to deal and better returns to be had. Something that helps this team win now. I know this team has potential to win at least 2 more cups before 87 and 71 pass their primes, but that window isn't getting any wider.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I would love a Martin for Williams swap!

Everyone that's saying trade Scuderi needs to stop. He is untradable. His age, contract and value are all in the red, no team in hell would take him.

That's your opinion. but i disagree.

I remember last year on hear i read over and over again how bad Orpik was.

Orpik ended up signing a 5 year 27.5 million dollar contract.

 

[gordie]

Williams is 34 this year. Honestly I'd pass, looking to get a younger guy rather than pay extra value for a Conn Smythe, and a guy who is incrementally going to look worse every year out.

Paul Martin is a rental for whoever acquires him and you aren't going to get a younger player under contract who isn't a rental as the return.

 

[blueliner18]

But at least he's not a Top 2 option anymore. I'm a lot more comfortable with him being #4/5 on the winger depth chart

Agree. I think Kunitz, Sutter, Bennett have the potential to be the best 3rd line in the league...potential mind you!

 

[Ogrezilla]

Williams is 34 this year. Honestly I'd pass, looking to get a younger guy rather than pay extra value for a Conn Smythe, and a guy who is incrementally going to look worse every year out.

We'd be trading a guy who is 1 year younger, and who is almost certain to leave at the end of the year. You can question whether its the right move in the short term. There is absolutely no long term negative to come from this trade. Would it be better to get a long term option for Martin? Sure it would. But we aren't going to get someone as good as Williams if we are looking for someone younger and locked up for a while. Not by trading Martin at least.

 

[blueliner18]

That's your opinion. but i disagree.

I remember last year on hear i read over and over again how bad Orpik was.

Orpik ended up signing a 5 year 27.5 million dollar contract.

Yeah the Crapitals end up giving players waaaaaay more money than they deserve, huh must be something about those D.C. teams!!!