Speculation: Paul Martin for Justin Williams

[cheesedanish87]

I think we would all rather see Scuderi pack his bags, but who wants him? Answer:nobody!! That kind falls into the wishful thinking category of: we'll give you all of our bad guys, for all of your good guys. LOL! I don't disagree at all, but it is very wishful thinking.

I think Scuderi could easily be traded if the pens wanted to, there is such a need in the league for def, he probably wouldn't bring much back besides a low draft pick, but he would open up cap space.

 

[blueliner18]

I don't blame them. I wouldn't want to re-sign Williams either if he gets traded here. We're already stuck with numerous older declining players like Scuds, Kunitz and Dupuis. I wouldn't want to risk adding another to that list.

I guess this is the heart of my argument... can Williams perform again? or will he just add to the list of the players you mention?

 

[WVP]

I do that deal in an instant.

Any time you can get a known playoff performer like Williams, that doesn't take a number of assets, you do it.

I've said before with Martin dating back to his Devils days, he has had his issues in the playoffs. Last year he played well. However, he's been pretty much up and down come playoff time and isn't what I'd consider a reliable playoff performer.

It does look good on paper but man, our D goes from a big strength to a bit of a question mark. Too much ice time for Scuderi and Bortuzzo and who knows if Maatta will be healthy.

If this has been discussed, it's easy to understand why it hasn't happened yet. Lombardi and JW could still be trying to make a deal, and we clearly need to wait on Maatta's health situation before dealing a top defensemen.

 

[blueliner18]

I think Scuderi could easily be traded if the pens wanted to, there is such a need in the league for def, he probably wouldn't bring much back besides a low draft pick, but he would open up cap space.

I think it is more about his current contract that would hinder any interest or movement, unless the Pens retain some of his salary and if they do that what's the point?

 

[Winger for Hire]

In playoff years were he's played in more than a series he's accumulated some nice numbers:

GP G A P
05/06- 25 7 11 18
11/12- 20 4 11 15
12/13- 18 6 3 9
13/14- 26 9 16 25

I think that's worth its weight in gold for a team that's had a problem of scoring in the postseason.

 

[ColePens]

It does look good on paper but man, our D goes from a big strength to a bit of a question mark. Too much ice time for Scuderi and Bortuzzo and who knows if Maatta will be healthy.

If this has been discussed, it's easy to understand why it hasn't happened yet. Lombardi and JW could still be trying to make a deal, and we clearly need to wait on Maatta's health situation before dealing a top defensemen.

I think Maatta going through rehab is teh only thing holding this up. If he's out for the year, then my guess is it doesn't happen.

Remember though.. we can always add a d-man at the deadline. If we get Williams for Martin now, then we can move for a dman later.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I would much rather trade Scuderi then trade Martin.

If your in a playoff series against a fast team like NYR or NYI(which i would say is likely to happen) a Scuderi Borts bottom paring will be very hard to watch against those type of teams.

I'd much rather have BB or Comeau in my top 6 then have Scuderi and Borts in my bottom pairing, but i'm sure i'l be in the minority on this one.

Obviously you'd rather trade Scuderi than Martin. But Scuderi isn't bringing back anything resembling a top 6 player, which is the reason we would be trading a d-man.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I think it is more about his current contract that would hinder any interest or movement, unless the Pens retain some of his salary and if they do that what's the point?

I don't think they would have to retain any salary.

Its hard to argue if Scuderi can be traded, there is no way to prove he can or can't be traded, we really don't know for sure.

 

[blueliner18]

Another thing, IMO if the Pens do go after another top 6 winger they need to solve the issue for the long term, not in getting a rental for a few months.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Another thing, IMO if the Pens do go after another top 6 winger they need to solve the issue for the long term, not in getting a rental for a few months.

If we trade someone like Maatta or Despres, I agree. But Martin essentially becomes a rental at the deadline.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I would much rather trade Scuderi then trade Martin.

If your in a playoff series against a fast team like NYR or NYI(which i would say is likely to happen) a Scuderi Borts bottom paring will be very hard to watch against those type of teams.

I'd much rather have BB or Comeau in my top 6 then have Scuderi and Borts in my bottom pairing, but i'm sure i'l be in the minority on this one.

So would JR and the rest of the Pens management, problem is no team in the league wants him.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Another thing, IMO if the Pens do go after another top 6 winger they need to solve the issue for the long term, not in getting a rental for a few months.

I generally agree... but since they'd be trading an expiring asset for Williams, I'm OK with the rental. If they were trading picks and prospects, I wouldn't be.

 

[Antaris]

Why not both?

Martins at TDL for Williams, then you move some young guns for a longer term top 6 and say Kunitz. Gives you a back-up in potential signing with williams plus the top 6 you brought in if Perron busts (highly unlikley but hey)


Yeah yeah i know, never gonna happen.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Obviously you'd rather trade Scuderi than Martin. But Scuderi isn't bringing back anything resembling a top 6 player, which is the reason we would be trading a d-man.

They would get cap space from a Scuderi trade, short term and long term.

 

[madinsomniac]

The thing is we can patch the top 6 and increase depth with moving Martin right now. At the draft we will have more established young defensemen in the eyes of the other GM's, one of which ought to be moved, as well as Sutter to aquire something long term for the top 6

 

[blueliner18]

Another thing, IMO if the Pens do go after another top 6 winger they need to solve the issue for the long term, not in getting a rental for a few months.

...otherwise the start of next season we'll be right back where we started this season. Some who show potential to be a top winger, but no standouts other than Hornqvist. Honestly JR brought in Comeau and Downie to be bottom six guys, not to be wings for Sid and Geno. I mean sure you can spot play them here and there, but giving them full top line minutes....ahhh I dunno.

 

[Ogrezilla]

They would get cap space from a Scuderi trade, short term and long term.

sure. Trade Scuderi. But it doesn't change anything with respect to the proposed Martin for Williams deal.

 

[jmelm]

Is there actually even a reliable, external source for this rumor? If not, this thread should be closed.


And yes, if it's a straight 1-for-1 deal, I would do it in an instant.

 

[wgknestrick]

Count me as the lone skeptic about William's true ability to help this team. He's 2 years removed from actually playing at a top 6 level at 5v5. This year he is scoring at an equivalent (technically lower) rate as Spalling/Sutter. I see him as Morrow 2.0, and also think that Paul Martin is much more valuable to this team than he would be.

Would any of you trade Paul Martin for Spalling/Morrow?

Just because Williams once was a good player does not necessarily mean that he still is. I'd rather see us trade Martin for a younger, more "under the radar" forward though. Assuming a 33y old Williams will suddenly metamorphosis into a playoff beast is not a wise bet IMO.

 

[blueliner18]

The thing is we can patch the top 6 and increase depth with moving Martin right now. At the draft we will have more established young defensemen in the eyes of the other GM's, one of which ought to be moved, as well as Sutter to aquire something long term for the top 6

Who replaces Sutter? IMO Sutter is a prototypical 3rd line center in this league. The problem we have in Pittsburgh is that we were spoiled having Jordan Staal here for several years. He was a 2nd line center forced to play 3rd line center because of Sid and Geno who were no doubt better talents for 1st and 2nd line centers. People seem to disregard that Jordan Staal was not a typical 3rd line center. Expecting the same play from Sutter is somewhat unfair IMO. Look at other 3rd line centers in this league, who would you rather have? There just aren't many true 3rd line centers that are 30+ goal and 70+ point scorers.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It does look good on paper but man, our D goes from a big strength to a bit of a question mark. Too much ice time for Scuderi and Bortuzzo and who knows if Maatta will be healthy.

If this has been discussed, it's easy to understand why it hasn't happened yet. Lombardi and JW could still be trying to make a deal, and we clearly need to wait on Maatta's health situation before dealing a top defensemen.

At some point, you just have to trust the young kids. LA did it with Voynov and moved him into a top four role the year they won their first cup, which allowed them to move JFJ. Last season, they had a very raw Muzzin, who ended up playing on their top pair with Doughty on their other cup run.

Harrington, despite this nonsense about his +\- rating, looked very good with Letang. I could see trepidation in playing DP, but not Harrington.

Just give that guy a chance and I'm betting they will reap the rewards.

 

[joeyjake5]

Be realistic in trading for a top 6 forward. Are you going to do better than Horny and Comeau when they come back and at what cost. What do the pens have to trade with. No #1, Martin and Erhoff will only bring back a rental or picks. Scuds is untradeable unless you include him in a Sid or Geno trade which won't happen. With an already depleted prospect pool who would you trade, Maata, Sunquist, KK, DP, Harry or Dumo. In trading one of the D now, assuming its Martin or Erhoff, you better make sure you can resign the other one. For next year, hopefully you can eliminate Scuds since his skills are not going to get better.

I think its safe to say JR pulled a little magic in getting Perron for a #1 and the hammer. Can he do it again????????

Just be realistic.

 

[vikingGoalie]

I would prefer to get Tlusty if we could, if we are looking rentals. But not sure what carolina would want for him.

Martin for Williams makes a lot of sense from both sides. I seem to remember around the draft that Martin approved a trade to the Kings but nothing materialized? Anyone else remember that?

 

[Winger for Hire]

Who replaces Sutter? IMO Sutter is a prototypical 3rd line center in this league. The problem we have in Pittsburgh is that we were spoiled having Jordan Staal here for several years. He was a 2nd line center forced to play 3rd line center because of Sid and Geno who were no doubt better talents for 1st and 2nd line centers. People seem to disregard that Jordan Staal was not a typical 3rd line center. Expecting the same play from Sutter is somewhat unfair IMO. Look at other 3rd line centers in this league, who would you rather have? There just aren't many true 3rd line centers that are 30+ goal and 70+ point scorers.

The problem is Sutter being a 3rd line centre is due to get a raise that could push $4+mil... not exactly what you should be paying a prototypical 3rd line centre who won't/can't play Top 6.

 

[jmelm]

Count me as the lone skeptic about William's true ability to help this team. He's 2 years removed from actually playing at a top 6 level at 5v5. This year he is scoring at an equivalent (technically lower) rate as Spalling/Sutter. I see him as Morrow 2.0, and also think that Paul Martin is much more valuable to this team than he would be.

Would any of you trade Paul Martin for Spalling/Morrow?

Just because Williams once was a good player does not necessarily mean that he still is. I'd rather see us trade Martin for a younger, more "under the radar" forward though. Assuming a 33y old Williams will suddenly metamorphosis into a playoff beast is not a wise bet IMO.

My preference, before the Perron trade, was to trade Martin for a young player/prospect --anywhere from an Emertson Etem to Mario Lucia, or other good young players from such teams, even if we added to the deal to get an even better/more NHL ready player.


That said, the Perron trade does put our team in a better position to contend this season than we were before the Perron deal. So while my preference would still be to build a deal around Martin (i.e. Martin + Dumoulin, Martin + Spaling, etc.) for a guy who is young but NHL ready like a Coyle/Niederreiter/DSP/Silfverberg, etc., I would rather make a trade for Williams than not trade Martin at all.