Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - MOD WARNING IN OP

[Kaako Kappo]

Or, you know, it's not the same people saying these things.

I thought he needed to get quicker last off-season. Still do. Brute strength will naturally come with age.

Mmm, i think size and strength develops faster than speed. He'll get there

 

[Whileee]

Also, why are some assuming that Laine won't work on skating as well this summer? Let's follow the best we can and see what happens.

Again, he is still so young, and our expectations are so high because he is such an incredible talent already. I have faith in him and those in charge of his development.

I'll bet he skates a fair amount this summer.

Apparently, he didn't skate much at all last summer. That's why this has been a topic of discussion.

Here's what he had to say in late October last year...

"Skating feels kinda heavy," Laine said. "That's probably one thing why it feels heavier because I haven't skated a lot... but I know it's going to feel a lot better maybe after Christmas or before that. Just waiting for that moment."

His skating looked "kinda heavy" for most of the season.

After his rookie season I thought he needed to get stronger, but not necessarily much heavier.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Apparently, he didn't skate much at all last summer. That's why this has been a topic of discussion.

Here's what he had to say in late October last year...

"Skating feels kinda heavy," Laine said. "That's probably one thing why it feels heavier because I haven't skated a lot... but I know it's going to feel a lot better maybe after Christmas or before that. Just waiting for that moment."

His skating looked "kinda heavy" for most of the season.

After his rookie season I thought he needed to get stronger, but not necessarily much heavier.

I understand about last summer, but people seem upset about this upcoming offseason, or I'm just misinterpreting.

I agree with the difference between heavier and stronger. No need to put any emphasis on getting heavy for the sake of getting heavy, but it's usually a side effect of getting stronger, especially at his age.

I still think that his long toothpick legs needed strengthening before he starts putting too much pressure on those tendons with quick movements, but he may be there already. Players shorter than him don't put the same leverage on knees and ankles.

This is all up to the training staff to figure out. Hopefully they deem him ready for the next step of skating work this summer.

 

[RageQuit77]

Hopefully Patty browse these pages so he will realize he needs to go do some skating amidst raw, heavy iron-pumping and leg-doing in a gym.

5000 shots require some ice time, if shooting training happens where it should happen. Preferably on skates, in a rink... and with only few pucks available.

Only few percents improvement in the accuracy means what means the most: More goals.

 

[Ippenator]

Who the hell thinks that Laine’s aim is to add mass itself? What is this jackcrap really about? Of course he is not aiming to add weight by itself, but when you need to add a lot of explosive muscle cells you can’t do it without eventually gaining also some weight on the side. What the hell is happening really here? People are seriously expecting him to get a lot more of explosiveness to his legs, but at the same time expecting him to become ”leaner”? I mean I don’t know what the hell kind of fairytale land are we talking about where people get clearly more muscles and explosiveness and at the same time don’t get any more mass or even get leaner there?

Just unbelievable discussion going on here really. Just please, people posting this kind of mumbojumbo, go a few pages earlier where I posted about the practicing for Olympic skaters and what are the essentials for that training. Those who can’t find it here, just google ”Olympic speedskating training” and read more about the subject before posting the completely wrong kind of claims about what is important for really developing of great speed and acceleration.

I mean seriously I just can’t believe how bad knowledge so many people seem to have here about what are really the essential things for creating a great skater from a player that doesn’t naturally have a lot of muscles (especially fast twitch muscles) in their legs. I’m just seriously shaking my head when reading the complete ignorance in some of these posts.

 

[cbcwpg]

I just want Laine to learn how to handle the puck in his own end like it's not a hand grenade about to go off. Accomplish that this summer, while not playing on the PS4, and I'll be happy.

 

[Whileee]

Who the hell thinks that Laine’s aim is to add mass itself? What is this jackcrap really about? Of course he is not aiming to add weight by itself, but when you need to add a lot of explosive muscle cells you can’t do it without eventually gaining also some weight on the side. What the hell is happening really here? People are seriously expecting him to get a lot more of explosiveness to his legs, but at the same time expecting him to become ”leaner”? I mean I don’t know what the hell kind of fairytale land are we talking about where people get clearly more muscles and explosiveness and at the same time don’t get any more mass or even get leaner there?

Just unbelievable discussion going on here really. Just please, people posting this kind of mumbojumbo, go a few pages earlier where I posted about the practicing for Olympic skaters and what are the essentials for that training. Those who can’t find it here, just google ”Olympic speedskating training” and read more about the subject before posting the completely wrong kind of claims about what is important for really developing of great speed and acceleration.

I mean seriously I just can’t believe how bad knowledge so many people seem to have here about what are really the essential things for creating a great skater from a player that doesn’t naturally have a lot of muscles (especially fast twitch muscles) in their legs. I’m just seriously shaking my head when reading the complete ignorance in some of these posts.

Calm down.

Nobody is saying that getting stronger and working on muscle development isn't important for improving skating and explosiveness.

But that doesn't mean you can't also work on skating technique.

Laine gained 5 kg of weight last summer, and I don't think it was all lean muscle mass. Many young players gained too much "bulk" in the summer, and it slowed them down.

Laine said himself that because he hadn't skated much last summer he was sluggish with his skating even at the end of October, and hoped his skating would be less laborious by Christmas. I don't know about you, but I hope he doesn't take several months to get his skating legs again this season.

 

[RageQuit77]

Google "Laine on his summer training 2017" and read and listen what he said then.

One thing I'm least concerned after that rather slow, and difficult autumn 2017 is that Laine himself wouldn't know where his physical development is now and what he should do. He is apparently more experienced during 2018 when it comes to his own training than he was during summer 2017. Obviously.

That 'ill-trained legless bad skater' still managed put 44G after stating his own "low" performance expectations for the season. With better match-ups with better chemical-bros that same legless guy could've had easily 5-10 goals more, totally regardless of his lower body fitness.

As a fan I'm more concerned about his full-season endurance and stamina capabilities, not that much about his core skills or skating (even lacking that much talked explosiveness of first steps).

Just keep your sights up-to-date and your aim within the area of a half square feet.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I'm no expert on training, but a lot of this support for Laine's program just seems to be an appeal to authori...

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Odd question, but why is Dahlgren still in Winnipeg?

 

[Ippenator]

Google "Laine on his summer training 2017" and read and listen what he said then.

One thing I'm least concerned after that rather slow, and difficult autumn 2017 is that Laine himself wouldn't know where his physical development is now and what he should do. He is apparently more experienced during 2018 when it comes to his own training than he was during summer 2017. Obviously.

That 'ill-trained legless bad skater' still managed put 44G after stating his own "low" performance expectations for the season. With better match-ups with better chemical-bros that same legless guy could've had easily 5-10 goals more, totally regardless of his lower body fitness.

As a fan I'm more concerned about his full-season endurance and stamina capabilities, not that much about his core skills or skating (even lacking that much talked explosiveness of first steps).

Just keep your sights up-to-date and your aim within the area of a half square feet.

Ditto. /

 

[Legend Leinonen]

Mmm, i think size and strength develops faster than speed. He'll get there

No, the other way around. Strength and size develops slower, but is also the last thing to go. Most of the worlds top powerlifters fex are kinda old dudes. I'm getting up there in age myself and never been stronger (as far as lifts go) or beefier than I am right now. On the other hand, my legs are absolutely finished what comes to running, sprinting etc.

 

[Lowered Expectations]

Here is that fatty again, talking about his training and career in Finnish Patrik Laine lähetti terveisiä Stanley Cup -sankari Ovetshkinille – "Me hoidetaan pytty kotiin ensi kaudella"
Main things are that training has been good, he had some short vacation with golf and tennis. Training is about overall things, of course more strength and explosiveness to legs.
Target for next season is winning Stanley Cup.
He likes Winnipeg so much that he wants to play his whole career there (and hopes the team thinks same of him), but understands that NHL is business and people get traded. He likes the city despite cold winters, because no matter what the games are always sold out and Jets are the big thing in the city.
He wants to score more but scoring is just little part of the game and You must be good without the puck to get more minutes and to play against the best players opponents have.
Someone maybe translates this whole thing, I am on my pad now so it is not ideal to work with.

 

[Whileee]

Here is that fatty again, talking about his training and career in Finnish Patrik Laine lähetti terveisiä Stanley Cup -sankari Ovetshkinille – "Me hoidetaan pytty kotiin ensi kaudella"
Main things are that training has been good, he had some short vacation with golf and tennis. Training is about overall things, of course more strength and explosiveness to legs.
Target for next season is winning Stanley Cup.
He likes Winnipeg so much that he wants to play his whole career there (and hopes the team thinks same of him), but understands that NHL is business and people get traded. He likes the city despite cold winters, because no matter what the games are always sold out and Jets are the big thing in the city.
He wants to score more but scoring is just little part of the game and You must be good without the puck to get more minutes and to play against the best players opponents have.
Someone maybe translates this whole thing, I am on my pad now so it is not ideal to work with.

Thanks for the link and information!

Chevy... sign him now! 8 years, $8.5M for the pleasure of playing in Winnipeg, of course.

 

[Legend Leinonen]

Good example of how power does not ask your age is Ilkka Nummisto (from Turku of course!)

Ilkka Nummisto - Wikipedia

Ilkka started powerlifting 1980 at age 36. He became Finnish powerlifting champion -82 at age 38.
In -85 he started competing in World Strongest Man and crowned his sporting career in 1991 finishing third in WSM for that year, age 47.

 

[sashalaine]

Someone maybe translates this whole thing, I am on my pad now so it is not ideal to work with.

Yeah, that had all the relevant content in that article, thanks.

He likes Winnipeg so much that he wants to play his whole career there (and hopes the team thinks same of him), but understands that NHL is business and people get traded.

Before someone reads this the wrong way, a clarification: he did not talk about wanting to play for Jets and about understanding people get traded in the same sentence or context. The "business side" was more related to him referring to Jets losing some players (read between the lines: Stastny). But yeah, he did say that he's committed to the city and would like to play the rest of his career in Winnipeg.

 

[Ippenator]

No, the other way around. Strength and size develops slower, but is also the last thing to go. Most of the worlds top powerlifters fex are kinda old dudes. I'm getting up there in age myself and never been stronger (as far as lifts go) or beefier than I am right now. On the other hand, my legs are absolutely finished what comes to running, sprinting etc.

Wake up and smell the coffee. He is training only explosiveness and stamina with his leg training. You are talking about some totally different kind of power lifting training and messing up this discussion really completely with the lack of knowledge you seem to have about Laine’s training and the effect of explosive muscle training to gaining better acceleration for skating.

 

[Ippenator]

Good example of how power does not ask your age is Ilkka Nummisto (from Turku of course!)

Ilkka Nummisto - Wikipedia

Ilkka started powerlifting 1980 at age 36. He became Finnish powerlifting champion -82 at age 38.
In -85 he started competing in World Strongest Man and crowned his sporting career in 1991 finishing third in WSM for that year, age 47.

Are you intentionally bringing these completely irrelevant power lifting issues here? They have absolutely nothing to do with Laine and his training. Seems like some kind of an agenda to me, or then you just don’t seriously understand that power lifting and the training that Laine is doing with Rautala are just two completely different things and not by any means comparable.

 

[RageQuit77]

@Mony Vibescu: thanks for that article.

Partik on his summer training:

"– Kesäharjoittelu on sujunut oikein mukavasti ja olen saanut harjoitella ilman minkäänlaisia ongelmia. Siinä sivussa on tullut levättyä. Hyvin on mennyt ja mukavaa on ollut, hyväntuulinen Laine iloitsee."

"– Panostukset on kokonaisvaltaisuudessa. Lähinnä jalkoihin lisää voimaa ja terävyyttä. Golf ja tennis kuuluvat myös aina kesääni, sillä niiden avulla saa hyvän irtioton jääkiekosta. Se on rentouttavaa toimintaa. Tasoituskin on parantunut, mutta vielä on varaa petrata, Laine virnuilee."

We can end speculations about the matter.

Summa summarum: No particular priorities in his training, scope being in leg strength and explosiveness. No problems in/with his training. Playing golf and tennis as he gets that way some off-duty from hockey.

 

[RageQuit77]

From same article. Relevant for Jets fans.

"Laine kertoo viihtyvänsä Winnipegissä, eikä häntä haittaisi sekään, että hän pelaisi koko loppu-uransa Jets-paidassa."

"Laine says he is feeling good in Winnipeg, and that he wouldn't mind if he would play his entire career/rest of his career wearing Jets-jersey."

Chevy! Sign him now! 8y x whateva between 7-10 mil.

 

[Howard Chuck]

This translation from google sums everything up and puts all worry to rest...

"The Finnish paint sprayer was ideally fit into the toothpaste for the first time."

 

[RageQuit77]

This translation from google sums everything up and puts all worry to rest...

"The Finnish paint sprayer was ideally fit into the toothpaste for the first time."

Normal. Golden. Lol.

I almost started to make translation of that article but I'm too tired (and slightly drunken) to do that properly now. Also, must go to sleep soon due early wake tomorrow.

 

[BB88]

I'd love someone go tell McDavid skating in the offseasons is pointless, would save lot of energy for him and maybe he would become a better player.

It's also amazing how we should wait atleast 4 years before we can expect any real improvements on Laines skating.
If you have to wait 4 damm years something is being done wrong.

I understand about last summer, but people seem upset about this upcoming offseason, or I'm just misinterpreting.

I agree with the difference between heavier and stronger. No need to put any emphasis on getting heavy for the sake of getting heavy, but it's usually a side effect of getting stronger, especially at his age.

I still think that his long toothpick legs needed strengthening before he starts putting too much pressure on those tendons with quick movements, but he may be there already. Players shorter than him don't put the same leverage on knees and ankles.

This is all up to the training staff to figure out. Hopefully they deem him ready for the next step of skating work this summer.

It's because of where he's training and how they've trained.
They just don't seem to skate during summers.

 

[Ippenator]

I'd love someone go tell McDavid skating in the offseasons is pointless, would save lot of energy for him and maybe he would become a better player.

It's also amazing how we should wait atleast 4 years before we can expect any real improvements on Laines skating.
If you have to wait 4 damm years something is being done wrong.



It's because of where he's training and how they've trained.
They just don't seem to skate during summers.

Bringing McDavid to this discussion as a comparable is in my opinion showing quite a lack of understanding of how skating works for different individuals. First of all McDavid is 10 cm shorter than Laine. Secondly he is a freak of nature whom has an incredible amount of fast twitch muscle cells in his legs naturally.

Do you seriously believe that McDavid is so much better than Laine with his acceleration because of some kind of special skating training? I mean if you seriously believe in that, then you are even more lost in the woods with this than I ever thought of.

I still challenge you to find me a player not named Wheeler with elite class acceleration and 6’4 tall or over. Seriously give me even one name, or even better, give me a list of them. I bet you can’t do it. Even for Barkov, whom is about 4 cm shorter than Laine, and whose skating you seem to admire so much, it took exactly about four years for his hard PHYSICAL TRAINING to pay off in him getting his acceleration to a clearly better level. You had to wait that long with Barkov, but for some strange reason you expect an even clearly bigger player like Laine to get results much quicker with it? Yeah, right.

Oh, and people whom claim that Laine’s skating technique is not good, especially for his size, are absolutely out for lunch in this matter.

 

[Legend Leinonen]

Here is article on another big lad who found skating training useful for himself


Noel combines size, strength with improving skating

Oshawa forward reminds scouts of Jets captain Wheeler


The term raw talent can be overused in the NHL scouting fraternity, but it might be the best way to accurately depict right wing Serron Noel of Oshawa of the Ontario Hockey League.

That's because the only specialized training Noel has had since joining Oshawa two seasons ago has been with former figure skater and current skating coach Shelley Kettles at Bell Sensplex in Ottawa.

Noel (6-foot-5, 200 pounds) has the size and strength that NHL teams crave in a blue-chip prospect, but what might surprise some is that his skating is close to being NHL ready.

"I started the skating lessons last summer, twice a week," Noel said. "I found tremendous improvement and feel more stable on my skates compared to last year."

Noel was introduced to Kettles by his longtime minor hockey coach, former NHL defenseman Jason York. Noel considers York his most influential hockey coach.
"He coached me for six years and it was an amazing experience," Noel said. "He kind of took me in when I wasn't a great skater and kept working with me in spring tournaments and summer camps."

"I told him, 'Your kid is going to be one heck of a player when he gets older,'" York said. "You hear the word raw used a lot, but the thing that really intrigues scouts about Serron is the fact the skating lessons have been the only specialized training he's had his entire life. I think (Kettles) tweaked a few things with his skating to help him get on his edges a little better.

Karl Stewart, who evaluates OHL prospects for NHL Central Scouting, has compared Noel to Winnipeg Jets forward Blake Wheeler. Noel is No. 9 in Central Scouting's midterm ranking of North American skaters for the 2018 NHL Draft at American Airlines Center in Dallas on June 22-23.
Wheeler was No. 17 on Central Scouting's final ranking of North American skaters for the 2004 NHL Draft, and was 6-3, 185 pounds at the time.

"I think of Wheeler when I see Noel just because of his size and feet and hands in tight, and when he puts it all together you can't get the puck away from him," Stewart said. "He's a young kid and it's scary to think about the player he'll be when he's fully developed. His skating is as close to NHL ready when he wants to skate. He can drive you wide and get around you, and he's got quick acceleration to separate himself from anyone."

Noel combines size, strength with improving skating