Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - MOD WARNING IN OP

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JetsFan815

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The more I read this thread the more it seems like this camp is more of a body building camp rather than one that can help with skating. Who cares you can bench-press 400lbs once the NHL season starts? The goal of summer training should be to address weakness, not look as ripped as possible.
 

Shaibu

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Me and this thread every time I venture over.
STAMINA!!!!!
 

Ippenator

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I have sat through a lot of physics and biology classes my time, and I am not buying what you are selling. Mass always creates inertia, and muscle mass may or may not produce enough force to counteract it. In most cases, in hockey, it doesn't, which is why the Connors and Ehlers of the world are so quick and lithe.
Big men--Finnish or otherwise, have a lot of mass to move, and there are many different ways to improve their efficiency in acceleration. The first is to limit the additional unnecessary mass gained, which is a real risk for Laine. There is no reason to believe that a 10kg weight gain through intensive weight training will equate to better acceleration and quite the opposite can be the case--just ask Morrissey.
OTOH, almost everything improves with practice, including skating drills designed specifically to improve quickness and agility. To eliminate this from a training regimen seems silly.
Simple physics: for great acceleration you need a great amount of explosive power, which is impossible to achieve without having enough of the fast twitched muscle cells. Some people are born with more of them and some with less of them. Tall and bigger sized people are usually born with clearly less of the fast twitched muscle cells than shorter or average tall people. A person whom does not have enough of those fast twitch muscle cells will never ever become good with acceleration unless he manages to add a good amount of that kind of muscle cells with training for getting the much needed explosive power. No kind of technical training will help you with developing your acceleration much at all if you dont get that issue fixed - it’s simply a physical impossibility. Speed comes through force and energy, and muscles are the organs that create them for the human body. Speed and acceleration doesn't come out of nothing or just through skills without the power, like some people here seem to believe.

Of course a hockey player should not have extra mass in areas which are not useful for his game. But Laine has been needing especially more power from muscles for both his core and his legs, to become exactly a skater with better clearly better acceleration. Just go and educate yourself by reading how Olympic speed skaters train. They do huge amounts of strength training for both, to their legs and to their core. If you don't have those areas strong and the legs strong with especially the fast twitch muscles, your skating will be weak and without the much needed power for fast acceleration.

Laine has had those areas weaker before. His arms have been always relatively strong for his age, but his legs and core were pretty weak before last off season, and he still has a lot of strength work to do with those areas, especially with his legs. Otherwise he will not develop his acceleration in the future practically at all. For sure he does not need to make his arms much stronger, so most probably he will not be doing that much strength training with his arms and hands. Some of course, but not with big amounts. He wasn't anyway doing that much of arm focused training for quite a while already.

Still, Laine’s biggest weakness is his lack of stamina for handling his big body. That has been extremely well visible, if you understand at all how it works for young athletes and their lack of stamina while still in the growing and strengthening process. So he will need to use a lot of his training time for training both, the explosive strength for his legs and his stamina. This means that he is training two things that are in fact even a bit contradictory with each other, so the time needed for effective training is really a great amount. At the same time the absolute truth is that he is a pretty good skater technically, so he just can’t be wasting his valuable training time at the moment for an area that seriously does not need fixing in his case. He has such bigger problems with his legs and stamina that some slight polishing through technical skating training would be seriously using his limited training time very unefficiently at the moment.

And remember, he is comparable with his training needs only to really bigger sized players whom have had similarly weak legs and leg injury recovering history during a similar three year time span. Comparing his needs for skating improvement with some under 6’4 tall guys with some nice luck with injuries is simply comparing two completely different situations with completely different kind of training needs.

I’m not trying to sell anything here. Just trying to educate here some people whom don't seriously seem to know what are the physical basics for having any possibilities to have fast acceleration. Unfortunately it seems that ignorance is bliss applies for some people here.
 
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Ippenator

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Barkov is 6'3 and he's a damm beast on skates, Blake Wheeler is 6'5, Dougie Hamilton is 6'6, Victor Hedman 6'6, Auston Matthews at 6'3 ain't the worst of skaters, Seth Jones, Darnell Nurse, Noah Hanifin, I'd say this kid Svechnikov can skate, Evgeni Malkin.

From 6'3- for starters, if we go from 6'2- the list is huge.

You've explained absolutely nothing on how avoiding skating in the summers is the best way to go, lot of NA guys disagree with you and they have a lot better track record on developing elite players with elite skating.
But I guess the Finns know the best, Laine, Rantanen, Barkov, Kotkaniemi, after all all of them were known for their skating on draft day.
None of the guys you listed are elite skaters except for Blake Wheeler. He is truly that. But I was in fact asking from you originally to name any other over 6’4 tall players not named Blake Wheeler that are truly elite skaters. The others you named are only good to very good skaters but they are definitely not elite skaters, and btw, only three of them that you listed are over 6’4, as I was anyway asking for those kind of bigger sized players. Don’t you see the pattern? The bigger the guys, the less elite or even good skaters. And btw, Laine is also not the worst skater. He is in fact a faster skater than most of those that you listed. Just not elite, exactly the same way as all those other guys you listed, except Blake Wheeler. Sure some of them have better acceleration than Laine, especially those whom are under 6’4 tall, but the two taller guys like Hedman and Hamilton have pretty much the similar kind of acceleration that Laine has. I can assure you that there is not at least much of difference between them.

All in all I have to say that you unfortunately failed to make the list, as you were able to present only one player whom is 6’4 tall or taller and has truly elite skating. None of the others are elite skaters. Not really even that close to it. Generally fine skaters for sure, and especially for their sizes even pretty darn good skaters. Just not true elite. And unfortunately one player just does not make a list.
 
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BB88

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None of the guys you listed are elite skaters except for Blake Wheeler. He is truly that. But I was in fact asking from you originally to name any other over 6’4 tall players not named Blake Wheeler that are truly elite skaters. The others you named are only good to very good skaters but they are definitely not elite skaters, and btw, only three of them that you listed are over 6’4, as I was anyway asking for those kind of bigger sized pkayers. Don’t you see the pattern? The bigger the guys, the less elite or even good skaters. And btw, Laine is also not the worst skater. He is in fact a faster skater than most of those that you listed. Just not elite, exactly the same way as all those other guys you listed, except Blake Wheeler. Sure some of them have better acceleration than Laine, especially those whom are under 6’4 tall, but the two taller guys like Hedman and Hamilton have pretty much the similar kind of acceleration that Laine has. I can assure you that there is not at least much of difference between them.

All in all I have to say that you unfortunately failed to make the list, as you were able to present only one player whom is 6’4 tall or taller and has truly elite skating. None of the others are elite skaters. Not really even that close to it. Generally fine skaters for sure, and especially for their sized even pretty darn good skaters. Just not true elite. And unfortunately one player just does not make a list.

So you don't watch a whole lot of NHL?

Wasn't Laine listed under 6'4 at the combine?
1-2cm difference means absolutely nothing.

So good try, there was the list of elite to great skaters who are atleast 6'3, there's more if you want to check the lists.
Finns aren't known for developing elite players with elite players, Canada/USA are, yet you seem to think Rautala is the best ever and Laine is a better skater than Mackinnon. Laine isn't anywhere near elite or the same level of skater than the players I listed.

Laine is way too often behind the play because his 1st steps are heavy and his turns aren't the quickest there are.
 
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Ippenator

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So you don't watch a whole lot of NHL?

Wasn't Laine listed under 6'4 at the combine?
1-2cm difference means absolutely nothing.

So good try, there was the list of elite to great skaters who are atleast 6'3, there's more if you want to check the lists.
Finns aren't known for developing elite players with elite players, Canada/USA are, yet you seem to think Rautala is the best ever and Laine is a better skater than Mackinnon.
I’m pretty sure I watch in fact much more of games than you do, as I watch practically all games for the Jets and the Canes, and most games also for the Panthers, the Wild and the Oilers (a bit less of them last season as they sucked so big time that it was often a lain to watch). The Jets and the Canes whenever I can I watch live, but the other much more from recordings.

And for sure none of the others than Wheeler are elite skaters, as to be a true elite skater, you need to have all the areas of your skating really top class. That means acceleration, agility and top speed. If you claim that all of those guys have every single area of their skating in the top class, then you are most probably not understanding what you see while watching the games, or then you just use elite definition in a very loose way.

One combine is seriously not also a source for player heights. Hell, in that one combine the idiots were even measuring the players first with their shoes on. My God how I couldn't even believe how that kind of stupidity could even exist!

The most trustworthy source for the most information about players even in general seems to be NHL.com. There Laine is 6’5 and Barkov is 6’3. And anyway most other sources list Laine as 6’5 and some rarely as 6’4. Practically all Finnish sites list Laine as either 195 or 194 cm. And Barkov is listed always at Finnish sites as either 191 or 190 cm. So unfortunately it really seems that you are wrong with every single claim that you just made again.
 

BB88

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I’m pretty sure I watch in fact much more of games than you do, as I watch practically all games for the Jets and the Canes, and most games also for the Panthers, the Wild and the Oilers (a bit less of them last season as they sucked so big time that it was often a lain to watch). The Jets and the Canes whenever I can I watch live, but the other much more from recordings.

And for sure none of the others than Wheeler are elite skaters, as to be a true elite skater, you need to have all the areas of your skating really top class. That means acceleration, agility and top speed. If you claim that all of those guys have every single area of their skating in the top class, then you are most probably not understanding what you see while watching the games, or then you just use elite definition in a very loose way.

One combination is seriously not also a source for player heights. Hell, in that one combination the idiots were even measuring the players first with their skates on. My God how I couldn't even believe how that kind of stupidity could even exist!

The most trustworthy source for the most information about players even in general seems to be NHL.com. There Laine is 6’5 and Barkov is 6’3. And anyway most other sources list Laine as 6’5 and some rarely as 6’4. Practically all Finnish sites list Laine as either 195 or 194 cm. And Barkov is listed always at Finnish sites as either 191 or 190 cm. So unfortunately it really seems that you are wrong with every single claim that you just made again.

He was measured 6'3.75" at the combine.

I watch NHL games every day, and its' impossible to talk with you about Laine/Rautala, the bias is way too strong.
Only 1 poster could try to argue Laine is at the same level of a skater as Mackinnon. Right now Laine has a lot of weaknessess in his skating, he's not even close to being great.

You've completely managed to fail to show how Rautalas training is maxing Laines development, how not skating for months& months is the best way to improve skating.
 

Ippenator

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He was measured 6'3.75" at the combine.

I watch NHL games every day, and its' impossible to talk with you about Laine/Rautala, the bias is way too strong.
Only 1 poster could try to argue Laine is at the same level of a skater as Mackinnon. Right now Laine has a lot of weaknessess in his skating, he's not even close to being great.
I never said he is a better skater than MacKinnon in general. So could you stop posting lies here? I just presented what was true, that in the all star competition Laine beat MacKinnon. That was because Laine’s top speed is better than many other NHL players have, and he can also turn very well at full speed. So he can do very well in that type of speedskating contest for sure. But his problem is still stop and go play, which is the strength for MacKinnon for example. But Laine needs only to get more of explosive power to his legs and get clearly better stamina, and he will already be a very good or at least a good skater. His top speed and general skating technique are already at that good level. But still, if anyone would believe that Laine or any other 6’5 tall player whom was not a freak of nature with a lot of fast twitch muscle cells naturally like Blake Wheeler, would ever become an elite skater with any kind of training, they would be completely wrong and lost. Simply put - Laine will for sure never become an elite skater with any kind of training. But he can for sure become a very good or at least good skater. And I’m pretty confident that it will happen in a couple of years.

Also I never claimed that Rautala is THE best trainer in the world, but I do absolutely believe that he is one of the best in the world in his business. Of course there are a lot of other good ones all over the world - in North America, but also all around Europe. You seem to like to make strawmen or hyperboles of what I have posted here. I would very much appreciate it if you could finally stop doing it.

I will just still say it once again, that your approach with Laine is definitely wrong. And Laine and Rautala are of course knowing better than you do. I can’t of course prove it yet, and you wouldn't anyway except anything else than what you sincerely believe in. But time will show you that you were very wrong and they were after all right.

Oh, and btw, you and others whom are completely questioning what Laine and Rautala are doing - you are in fact questioning also the whole Jets management. If you guys seriously believe that you all know things so much better, how do you seriously think that the Jets management wouldnt see it so if you think it’s so obvious? Why on earth they wouldn't intervene with Laine’s training if what him and Rautala are doing would be so horribly wrong? The truth is that they all know what they are doing in Laine’s case, and you don’t unfortunately know what is best in his situation.
 
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BB88

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I never said he is a better skater than MacKinnon in general. So could you stop posting lines here? I just presented what was true, that in the all star competition Laine beat MacKinnon. That was because Laine’s top speed is better than many other NHL players have, and he can also turn very well at full speed. So he can do very well in that type of speedskating contest for sure. But his problem is stop and go play, which is the strength for MacKinnon for example. But Laine needs only to get more of explosive power to his legs and get clearly better stamina, and he will already be a very good or at least a good skater. His top speed and general skating technique are already at that good level. But still, if anyone would believe that Laine or any other 6’5 tall player whom was not a freak of nature with a lot of fast twitch muscle cells naturally like Blake Wheeler, would ever become an elite skater with any kind of training, they would be completely wrong and lost. Simply put - Laine will for sure never become an elite skater with any kind of training. But he can for sure become a very good or at least good skater. And I’m pretty confident that it will happen in a couple of years.

I will just still say it once again, that your approach with Laine is definitely wrong.
And Laine and Rautala are of course knowing better than you do. I can’t of course prove it yet, and you wouldnt anyway except anything else than what you sincerely believe in. But time will show you that you were very wrong and they were after all right.

Oh, and btw, you and others whom are completely questioning what Laine and Rautala are doing - you are in fact questioning also the whole Jets management. If you guys seriously believe that you all know things so much better, how do you seriously think that the Jets management wouldnt see it so if you think it’s so obvious? Why on earth they wouldn't intervene with Laine’s training if what him and Rautala are doing would be so horrible wrong? The truth is that they all know what they are doing in Laine’s case, and you don’t unfortunately know what is best in his situation.

Laine "only" needs to improve his 1st steps, turns and his stamina, and not by a bit. But by a good margin to become a player he can become.
His ceiling is the best winger in the game but he won't get there if he can't gain significant improvements in his skating.

Why is it wrong? Ristolainen was drafted 2013 and here we are still waiting on him becoming a great skater, in the meantime Barkov has become that. Guess the difference, one of them trains with Rautala and the other doesn't.

Here I'm still waiting on why on earth are lot of NA guys working with skating coaches/skating in the offseasons if it's so pointless.
Here I'm still waiting for you to explain how Finns have the history of developing elite players with elite skaters and not Canada/USA, bit quiet on that.

Laine will get better as a player as just he matures but dammit the guy could skate in the offseasons, you can skate and do off ice workouts dammit.

But nooooooo it has to be only off ice training!!!
 

Ippenator

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Laine "only" needs to improve his 1st steps, turns and his stamina, and not by a bit. But by a good margin to become a player he can become.
His ceiling is the best winger in the game but he won't get there if he can't gain significant improvements in his skating.

Why is it wrong? Ristolainen was drafted 2013 and here we are still waiting on him becoming a great skater, in the meantime Barkov has become that. Guess the difference, one of them trains with Rautala and the other doesn't.

Here I'm still waiting on why on earth are lot of NA guys working with skating coaches/skating in the offseasons if it's so pointless.
Here I'm still waiting for you to explain how Finns have the history of developing elite players with elite skaters and not Canada/USA, bit quiet on that.

Laine will get better as a player as just he matures but dammit the guy could skate in the offseasons, you can skate and do off ice workouts dammit.
Ristolainen lacks hockey IQ way too much to ever be a real top class defenceman. Unfortunately so. He might still improve by some margin though. But skating hasn’t really been a problem for him for quite some time already. The pretty bad hockey IQ and especially bad defensive awareness is what brings him much down from what abilities he otherwise has.

Again you are wrong about Laine, and him, Rautala and the Jets management are right. You will eventually see it, but you will never accept it posted by me, so it’s probably better to leave the topic for now. Or at least I will do it from my part now.

Oh, and Kapanen, Aho, Haula and Heiskanen are elite skaters, but hey, all of them are practically midgets, so there is that of course. Other Finnish top prospects have mostly been really big by size lately, which has made also their skating be not exactly elite or even close to it in most cases. Kapanen for sure is an elite skater, but unfortunately the dude is dumb as bricks and his hockey IQ also matches exactly that. He is also pretty small. Even with much worse acceleration than Kapanen Laine is a ten times better player than he is, just as he is even with his present skating. And he will definitely improve it by training with Rautala. But dude, you seriously seem to hate Rautala! It’s even starting to look funny to me how obvious it is.
 
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Legend Leinonen

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Could you btw finally give me the list of all the 6’4 tall or taller players whom are elite skaters in the NHL? I’m still waiting for you to show me how easily and quickly that sized players become very good or even just good skaters. Seems like you are avoiding answering to this.

Please stop diverting the real issue with this question. I for one am not expecting Laine to ever become true elite skater. Is just that right now his skating is really bad even for a big guy, and I and few others have the opinion that his current training regiment is not maximizing his skating development.
 

Legend Leinonen

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Oh, but you probably meant his training during the season and not off season? I don’t know for sure, but I doubt that he is doing at least very much of weight training during the season. Some for sure, but most probably not at last much more than most of his team mates. If someone knows for sure how it is, then please post it here.

Well I sure hope he is at least doing enough to maintain the strength levels he gained in summer training. I'm personally fan of versatile consistent training. If he stops completely with his weight training, he'd be starting from zero level again next summer. I think that kind of clunky blocky training is pretty idiotic. Anyway I think it's quite likely he does some lifting during seasons too.
 

Tommigun

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Ristolainen lacks hockey IQ way too much to ever be a real top class defenceman. Unfortunately so. He might still improve by some margin though. But skating hasn’t really been a problem for him for quite some time already. The pretty bad hockey IQ and especially bad defensive awareness is what brings him much down from what abilities he otherwise has.

Again you are wrong about Laine, and him, Rautala and the Jets management are right. You will eventually see it, but you will never accept it posted by me, so it’s probably better to leave the topic for now. Or at least I will do it from my part now.

Oh, and Kapanen, Aho, Haula and Heiskanen are elite skaters, but hey, all of them are practically midgets, so there is that of course. Other Finnish top prospects have mostly been really big by size lately, which has made also their skating be not exactly elite or even close to it in most cases. Kapanen for sure is an elite skater, but unfortunately the dude is dumb as bricks and his hockey IQ also matches exactly that. He is also pretty small. Even with much worse acceleration than Kapanen Laine is a ten times better player than he is, just as he is even with his present skating. And he will definitely improve it by training with Rautala. But dude, you seriously seem to hate Rautala! It’s even starting to look funny to me how obvious it is.

Could you please answer BB88’s questions or refrain from posting, please. It’s ridiculous when you participate so actively in this discussion but ignore the real questions:
Here I'm still waiting on why on earth are lot of NA guys working with skating coaches/skating in the offseasons if it's so pointless.
Here I'm still waiting for you to explain how Finns have the history of developing elite players with elite skaters and not Canada/USA, bit quiet on that.

Laine will get better as a player as just he matures but dammit the guy could skate in the offseasons, you can skate and do off ice workouts dammit.

But nooooooo it has to be only off ice training!!!

I also, for the life of me, can’t believe Laine doesn’t skate at all during the off season. How can anyone defend that kind of training?
Thanks.
 
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Tommigun

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The more I read this thread the more it seems like this camp is more of a body building camp rather than one that can help with skating. Who cares you can bench-press 400lbs once the NHL season starts? The goal of summer training should be to address weakness, not look as ripped as possible.

Yeah it’s just a body building camp, that is supposed to somehow magically transform the participants to elite skaters. Another off-season lost. I’d bet money on the Jets management getting involved in his training next year and cutting Rautala loose.
 

Tommigun

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Laine training:
Paljonko nousee jalkakyykystä, Patrik Laine? Näin hirmuraudat tottelevat maalitykkiä
“It’s that kind of a dude... a package weighing a hundred kilos.” -Rautala
“There’s no reason for me not to become a pretty strong dude” -Laine
Check out the video of Laine lifting weights as well.

“Prospect” training:
Mitä ihmettä? - Ilari Filppula luistelukoulussa
“I've been training really hard recently. The program has included, among other things, heavy foot weight training, but also skating technique. [...]

- Janne Hänninen has helped me in that department because she has a ridiculous amount of know-how about skating. We have worked on, among other things, finding the right skating angles.”

But no, Laine should just lift weights and aim to become as heavy as possible. That’s surely better training than what McDavid receives.
 

Ippenator

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Could you please answer BB88’s questions or refrain from posting, please. It’s ridiculous when you participate so actively in this discussion but ignore the real questions:


I also, for the life of me, can’t believe Laine doesn’t skate at all during the off season. How can anyone defend that kind of training?
Thanks.
Which question I didn’t answer? I pointed out Finnish elite skaters. I told the reason why lately there has not been so many Finnish elite skaters (although Aho, Kapanen and Heiskanen are that recently), which is because the Finnish top prospects have lately been mostly 6’3 or taller, which means that the possibility to get elite skaters from that big guys is extremely slim. There is no problem with those bigger Finnish guys skating. Even Laine’s skating is not even close to being really bad. Some people here are just exaggerating his skating ”problem”. There is no real skating problem with him. Just he could become by some margin a better player if he could get his first steps a tad better. And he could become even better with fixing his stamina issues, which are the bigger problem in his case.

Rantanen is just as good of a skater as Barkov is and he trained with Rautala. BB88 just sees clearly Barkov's skating as much better than it really is. Barkov has only a bit better first steps and agility than Laine, just like Rantanen. But they both have A LOT better stamina than Laine which makes a bigger difference between them and Laine. But anyway Laine is a more talented player than either of them. 19 year old Barkov and Rantanen were a lot behind of Laine in their development, so it’s honestly amazing to read some comments here on Laine’s development. The lack of understanding of basic physical issues and the ignorance is just awful with some here.
 
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Ippenator

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Yeah it’s just a body building camp, that is supposed to somehow magically transform the participants to elite skaters. Another off-season lost. I’d bet money on the Jets management getting involved in his training next year and cutting Rautala loose.
Maybe you go through his weekly training from last off season (I just bumped it yesterday) and check how much of his training was pure weight lifting and how much was exactly for increasing explosiveness and stamina. Sorry dude, but you seriously don’t seem to understand what and how you need to train to make your acceleration and stamina better.
 

Tommigun

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That Laine article also contains Rautala’s Training program!

Monday: Foot day, weights + Aerobia
Tuesday: Upper body strength training + Badminton or tennis
Wednesday: Speed training with rubber bands I guess, fences and shot put with a 4 kg ball + mobility exercise
Thursday: Foot day, weights + 1 hour floor ball game 5vs5 (heart rate 160-170)
Friday: Quota interval, stair running + upper body
Saturday: Recovery, bench press
Sunday: Rest

Question: why the heck are they wasting time with badminton, floor ball, tennis etc, couldn’t they use that time for on-ice training to learn to skate? I’ll answer this myself: because Rautala is a gym coach who doesn’t know skating. Follow-up question: is this smart?
I’ve been saying that Rautala is not a hockey player coach but a strength trainer, and he’d never suggest any skating technique training because it’s fully outside his area of expertise! I’m hoping Laine wisens up soon and changes trainers.
 

Tommigun

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Which question I didn’t answer? I pointed out Finnish elite skaters. I told the reason why lately there has not been so many Finnish elite skaters (although Aho, Kapanen and Heiskanen are that recently), which is because the Finnish top prospects have lately been mostly 6’3 or taller, which means that the possibility to get elite skaters from that big guys is extremely slim. There is no problem with those bigger Finnish guys skating. Even Laine’s skating is not even close to being really bad. Some people here are just exaggerating his skating ”problem”. There is no real skating problem with him. Just he could become by some margin a better player if he could get his first steps a tad better. And he could become even better with fixing his stamina issues, which are the bigger problem in his case.

Rantanen is just as good of a skater as Barkov is and he trained with Rautala. BB88 just sees clearly Barkov's skating as much better than it really is. Barkov has only a bit better first steps and agility than Laine, just like Rantanen. But they both have A LOT better stamina than Laine which makes a bigger difference between them and Laine. But anyway Laine is a more talented player than either of them. 19 year old Barkov and Rantanen were a lot behind of Laine in their development, so it’s honestly amazing to read some comments here on Laine’s development. The lack of understanding of basic physical issues and the ignorance is just awful with some here.

Here’s his question again:
Here I'm still waiting on why on earth are lot of NA guys working with skating coaches/skating in the offseasons if it's so pointless.
Here I'm still for you to explain how Finns have the history of developing elite players with elite skaters and not Canada/USA, bit quiet on that.

Laine will get better as a player as just he matures but dammit the guy could skate in the offseasons, you can skate and do off ice workouts dammit.

But nooooooo it has to be only off ice training!!!

Is everyone else doing it wrong and Rautala right? The guy who’s not even a hockey player coach but a pure strength trainer.
 

Ippenator

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Here’s his question again:


Is everyone else doing it wrong and Rautala right? The guy who’s not even a hockey player coach but a pure strength trainer.
Answered many times that already. If you would bother to really read thoroughly my posts you should have got it already. My answer was that Laine’s situation is not comparable to every other player’s as he has a naturally smaller amount of those fast twitch muscle cells in his legs and also his legs became even weaker after his knee injury and knee operation three years ago, which caused him practically a year of set back with his leg training because of the need for recovery. Most young players don’t have that kind of a situation, so they don’t need to concentrate as much in getting the explosive leg strength developed as Laine needs to. On the other hand Laine has already good skating technique, so that is not something that he will get so good benefits from developing at the moment.

Laine and his trainer Rautala have said themselves that the areas that Laine needs to develop the most are clearly the leg explosiveness and stamina, so they will priorize and maximize the training of those areas to diminish quicker the physical gap that there is between him and most of his peers. But there is no such gap with his technical skating skills, so they have decided to maximize the usage of the limited training time to tackle the real issues that needed tackling.

Of course young talents in completely different situations with their leg strength and injury situations will train especially the areas where they see they can get the most benefits with training. It has nothing to do with the trainer being Rautala or a North American trainer. It has to do with individual differences between players and different training needs for different kind of players. What is good to someone is not always good for some others. Individuality and differing situations is the key here. And being a bigger player also means different kind of training than smaller players in most cases.
 
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Ippenator

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Jan 6, 2016
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That Laine article also contains Rautala’s Training program!

Monday: Foot day, weights + Aerobia
Tuesday: Upper body strength training + Badminton or tennis
Wednesday: Speed training with rubber bands I guess, fences and shot put with a 4 kg ball + mobility exercise
Thursday: Foot day, weights + 1 hour floor ball game 5vs5 (heart rate 160-170)
Friday: Quota interval, stair running + upper body
Saturday: Recovery, bench press
Sunday: Rest

Question: why the heck are they wasting time with badminton, floor ball, tennis etc, couldn’t they use that time for on-ice training to learn to skate? I’ll answer this myself: because Rautala is a gym coach who doesn’t know skating. Follow-up question: is this smart?
I’ve been saying that Rautala is not a hockey player coach but a strength trainer, and he’d never suggest any skating technique training because it’s fully outside his area of expertise! I’m hoping Laine wisens up soon and changes trainers.
Sorry but your comments are now showing extreme ignorance. It is exactly a proven thing that in the off season for most sports you should exactly train a lot of cross fitness training too. Especially versatile training that helps the body get adjusted with the gained muscle mass is very much needed at the same time. Those are also versatile ways of training the stamina to become better. Tennis for example is a very good stamina and leg exercising training method for hockey players. Selänne, Kurri and Barkov for example have played always loads of tennis during their summers and they all have praised how good thing it is in addition to their more systematic training. It also helps them relax their mind while still getting good supporting results for their more systematic training.

You try to show that you are some kind of a knowledgeable person in these training issues, but unfortunately with the comments like you just had here you are showing very little understanding of what kind of training can work during the off season. Seems that you are very much tied and limited in the thinking that the most important work for improving skating is done on the ice. But there you are exactly extremely wrong. All of the players in the NHL are already technically pretty good skaters. If they weren’t they wouldn’t be playing at that level. It also means that all of them have trained especially a lot of the skating techniques to get where they are now. But when they are still as young as Laine is they are most of all still physically not fully developed yet, and when someone is physically even less developed than most of the others (Laine with leg explosiveness and stamina) they will need to train according to that to get the best developing results.

Anyway, a lot of players that train with Rautala can train more than Laine also on the ice, but they all do it only after the training time with Rautala is over, at the end of the summer. This is how Olympic class speed skaters do it too. They don’t skate at all for the most intensive off season training period. That period is for only weight training and stamina training by running. You and some others here have the completely false idea that the best skaters get their best results mostly because of on ice training. That is not true. They do the hard work at the gym and by running a lot too or with some other versatile exercises that help improving the stamina. Then they polish the much needed raw strength and stamina training results with technical on ice training, not the other way around. And this is a fact.
 
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Laineux

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Aug 1, 2011
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I would leave thinking about Laine's summer training to the actual highly trained professionals who are behind it.

If Jets felt that Laine's training was botchered by incompetent people, they would interfere with it. He's a 100+ million dollar investment for the Winnipeg Jets organization in the long term.
 

Ares

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May 8, 2018
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Maybe "Laine's summer training" should have a thread of it's own, mods? So the rest of us who just come here for beard memes and such can do so, and those 2-3 people can continue their pointless arguing in their own little thread. Or even better take it to PMs!

Anyway is this really the best Laine 17-18 highlight reel Youtube has to offer? It doesn't even have all 49 goals or replays or hits or nothing...

 
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BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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I would leave thinking about Laine's summer training to the actual highly trained professionals who are behind it.

If Jets felt that Laine's training was botchered by incompetent people, they would interfere with it. He's a 100+ million dollar investment for the Winnipeg Jets organization in the long term.

It's just weird to watch lot of NA guys skate during summers and praise it, hire skating coaches and then listen to a hf poster basically say it's pointless.
When those guys are training with the best in the business and guys who are professionals.

Canada/USA have the CV in this World, they keep producing elite players with elite skaters year after year, not Finland or Rautala.

I could be completely wrong here but I don't think the Jets were perfectly happy in the shape Laine was at the start of pre season/regular season.

And to make point clear, no one has said here stop the off ice training, I've defended Rautala in the past, but dammit add skating practises into the mix.

But this is just going to drive people crazy here so I'll stop with this skating argument.
 
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sashalaine

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Apr 2, 2016
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I could be completely wrong here but I don't think the Jets were perfectly happy in the shape Laine was at the start of pre season/regular season.
And if that's the case, you think Laine would do the same exact mistake against the wishes of the people who will eventually pay him 9 figures. What makes you think so?
 
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