Patrik Laine II: The Roof Still is Still On (for now)

[CBJWerenski8]

Even if we get a new offensive minded coach, the personnel we have is still not enough to create an offensive play style that will allow Laine to utilize his biggest and possibly only weapon.

Without Laine changing himself, he won’t succeed in Columbus. I certainly give him a benefit of the doubt but I honestly think he’s likely gone next year

The offensive personnel will be changed next year, as will the offensive philosphy and mindset.

The only way I don't see Laine here next year is if we get blown away with an offer involving another star, or if we trade Jones and launch into a rebuild.

 

[ViD]

The only way I don't see Laine here next year is if we get blown away with an offer involving another star, or if we trade Jones and launch into a rebuild.

You don’t see Laine requesting a trade if he is not scoring much next year or Jarmo getting tired of seeing little effort from him ?

I get he’s a star caliber player and you don’t just send them away, but there must be limits and his salary will be extremely high for what he’s brought so far

 

[majormajor]

I expect Laine to be much improved next year but I wouldn't say this is the best place for him to get back to the 40 goal tier.

The decision on whether to trade him really depends on the price. A couple returns were brought up on the trade boards that I would strongly consider: J.T. Miller, and N.J.'s 1st pick. I really don't know what the market for Laine is right now.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

Oh but you forget.....

1) It is not Laine that such, it is who ever he plays with.
2) He is a hockey God, that is destroyed by everybody else.
3) If it was not for Laine, this team would really sucks.
4) He is, by definition, the best player ever....
5) It is because he is used wrong, that he make everybody on his lines sucks.
6) He is the best, and what goes wrong, has noting to do with Laine.
7) He is the most talented player ever....
8) His is the most skilled player ah I think EVER
9) He has the highest hockey IQ, ah.... ever
10) It is not because of Laine, that he does not adapt well. Think about his Hockey IQ/Skills and Talent
11) Everybody critic of Laine are stupid and do not understand Hockey

So my friend You and I do not understand anything at all about hockey....

Don't choke on your sarcasm. It's not good for you.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

You don’t see Laine requesting a trade if he is not scoring much next year or Jarmo getting tired of seeing little effort from him ?

Here’s what I do know

1. Winnipeg offered Laine to us for PLD at the draft and jarmo said no. Did he say no because he didn’t like Laine or because he wanted to try to make it work with PLD before giving up? I think it’s the latter because..

2. After the debacle PLD pulled, jarmo asked every team for their best offer. Many teams were in the running, and he picked this deal. Meaning he had to like Laine (and Roslovic) a lot. Teams were swinging hard for him and jarmo took this deal with Laine at the center of it. He then went on to say he would have traded a lot for him prior to the 2016 draft but this is also probably just GM speak to hype his new player.

3. jarmo knows Laine better than almost any GM in the league. He scouted him when he was a literal child in Finland. He knows all of his coaches and knows him personally. If someone knows exactly the type of player Laine is, it’s jarmo.

4. many posters, including our own majormajor, scouted Laine to a T as far as what we were getting effort wise. No offense to them, but if HFBoards posters can scout him that easily I think jarmo and company knew what they were getting

Jarmo is clearly banking on Laine’s high end upside. Which is massive. He has major kinks to work out in his game including with effort. But I don’t think this was a surprise to jarmo or the coaching staff. It’s a process. And I don’t see jarmo giving up on that process so easily, especially in a pandemic year (also jarmo has stressed to his staff that you can only take so much from a year like this and not make rash decisions based off one year).

As far as Laine requesting a trade, I severely doubt it. Because 1. It would be his second one before the age of 25 and that’s a massive black eye on someone’s career and 2. If he truly doesn’t want to be here All he has to do is play one more year here and he can walk to UFA and play where he wants

 

[Stubu]

"Not much talk of him", there has been literally multiple news/articles about him every day in different finnish news sites...

You must mean the hockey sites that need to generate the clicks. Looking at the general news outlets, I saw one article last week talking about his struggles. This week, articles about Aho, Kakko, Puljujarvi, that didn't have one sentence about Laine. You exaggerate the coverage Laine gets.

He got plenty of attention early on, especially when he was racing neck to neck with Matthews for the Calder. Obviously that attention was warranted.

In the last couple of years it's been quieter. Granlund back when got a bigger limelight. Maybe this is just because there are nowadays a larger number of promising young players to cover. Rantanen, Aho, Barkov, et cetera.

 

[majormajor]

Here’s what I do know

1. Winnipeg offered Laine to us for PLD at the draft and jarmo said no. Did he say no because he didn’t like Laine or because he wanted to try to make it work with PLD before giving up? I think it’s the latter because..

2. After the debacle PLD pulled, jarmo asked every team for their best offer. Many teams were in the running, and he picked this deal. Meaning he had to like Laine (and Roslovic) a lot. Teams were swinging hard for him and jarmo took this deal with Laine at the center of it. He then went on to say he would have traded a lot for him prior to the 2016 draft but this is also probably just GM speak to hype his new player.

4. many posters, including our own majormajor, scouted Laine to a T as far as what we were getting effort wise. No offense to them, but if HFBoards posters can scout him that easily I think jarmo and company knew what they were getting

I think they knew this kind of debacle was a serious risk with Laine, it is not even as bad as he played from December onward two years ago. But that's a little different from saying that they expected it. I think Jarmo was forced into making a move, and so he had to bite the bullet on Laine and just hope for the best.

The picture I gathered from Lebrun, Friedman, etc... didn't make it clear what exactly was on offer from Montreal and Anaheim, who had the supposed two next best offers in the running. But it seemed they didn't offer us a young center+. Jarmo kept the Laine+Roslovic package on hold for months, even through that late December - January period where things were spinning out of his control. That tells me that he wanted something better, either to wait until a better value package or one with a strong center.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I think they knew this kind of debacle was a serious risk with Laine, it is not even as bad as he played from December onward two years ago. But that's a little different from saying that they expected it. I think Jarmo was forced into making a move, and so he had to bite the bullet on Laine and just hope for the best.

The picture I gathered from Lebrun, Friedman, etc... didn't make it clear what exactly was on offer from Montreal and Anaheim, who had the supposed two next best offers in the running. But it seemed they didn't offer us a young center+. Jarmo kept the Laine+Roslovic package on hold for months, even through that late December - January period where things were spinning out of his control. That tells me that he wanted something better, either to wait until a better value package or one with a strong center.

I think they were expecting some issues. If he had these problems clear as day with little to no reprisal in Winnipeg it was going to get worse under Torts unless he came in with a drastically changed mindset. He didn’t. And here we are.

 

[majormajor]

I think they were expecting some issues. If he had these problems clear as day with little to no reprisal in Winnipeg it was going to get worse under Torts unless he came in with a drastically changed mindset. He didn’t. And here we are.

Struggles in his overall game: entirely expected.
Struggles to even get shots, a goal per month: that's not expected, it's a foreseeable risk that you hope you never have to deal with.

 

[VT]

So. His value is very small now and he`s only 23 year guy. Plus his terrible season is good for us. He can`t want much money and one probably understands his problems. I hope. So, I wouldn`t trade him but contract - 7, 5 mil (it`s minimum I`m afraid) for 1 season.
Please, don`t write about Torts` blame. His problems are his blame.

 

[Jan]

I think they were expecting some issues. If he had these problems clear as day with little to no reprisal in Winnipeg it was going to get worse under Torts unless he came in with a drastically changed mindset. He didn’t. And here we are.

Struggles in his overall game: entirely expected.
Struggles to even get shots, a goal per month: that's not expected, it's a foreseeable risk that you hope you never have to deal with.

So. His value is very small now and he`s only 23 year guy. Plus his terrible season is good for us. He can`t want much money and one probably understands his problems. I hope. So, I wouldn`t trade him but contract - 7, 5 mil (it`s minimum I`m afraid) for 1 season.
Please, don`t write about Torts` blame. His problems are his blame.

There is no question that Jarmo was expecting some issues with Laine's play. (Or he would had made the trade earlier, PLD forced him to do that trade, when he did).
There is also no question that Torts was hoping/expecting that Laine would be general stronger on the puck.

To all those that still think it is all Tort, that are the problem.
This team is not Winnipeg and here any player is needed to contribute more widely.
And if Laine was that skilled and talented that many here claim, adjusting to those additional responsibilities would not had been an issue. He supposed immense skilles and Hockey IQ would had helped that much.

The issues with his compete level, I think has to do with conditioning and that could be an over all problem, that also effect his skills that he has.
What ever, even he still make a lot of give a ways, he has played better on the third line.
That can be explained with by not as tough opponent, playing against his line and a more defensive minded line (Or other player adjusting to his weakness).

What ever he is here and he can still develop to be come a great player.
He need to improve on some of his weaker skills and improve his conditions over the summers to come.
In fact, Tort could be a good coach for him, in those matters.

 

[VT]

There is no question that Jarmo was expecting some issues with Laine's play. (Or he would had made the trade earlier, PLD forced him to do that trade, when he did).
There is also no question that Torts was hoping/expecting that Laine would be general stronger on the puck.

To all those that still think it is all Tort, that are the problem.
This team is not Winnipeg and here any player is needed to contribute more widely.
And if Laine was that skilled and talented that many here claim, adjusting to those additional responsibilities would not had been an issue. He supposed immense skilles and Hockey IQ would had helped that much.

The issues with his compete level, I think has to do with conditioning and that could be an over all problem, that also effect his skills that he has.
What ever, even he still make a lot of give a ways, he has played better on the third line.
That can be explained with by not as tough opponent, playing against his line and a more defensive minded line (Or other player adjusting to his weakness).

What ever he is here and he can still develop to be come a great player.
He need to improve on some of his weaker skills and improve his conditions over the summers to come.
In fact, Tort could be a good coach for him, in those matters.

He showed he has very good hockey IQ and his skill but...you`re right I doubt about his strenght and condition. Let nobody tell me if in one game he can receive the puck excelent, use his body etc,play under hard forchecking etc...and in the other not it`s about his puckhandling. I doubt that in confidence too. Especially if he really tries. Maybe it`s time to change his summer preparation and he thinks about his professionalism. Bjork isn`t more talented than Patrik, but he`s a real professional with big P.
One a big example - Zdeno Chara (btw he should write Khara). He isn`t more talented than the most of d-men who were in nomination on Vezina with him, more precisely, less talented. But he`s a great professional. You can't imagine it. Really. Or Jaromir Jagr. He is not only talented but a great professional too.
On the contrary, Semin. He is a huge talent but even children in kindergarden are better professionals. He could one of the best NHL players not only of that period but thanks to his "professionalism"....you see yourself. The same - Zherdev.
I`m agree with Torts. And I hope he will continue here. He`s a great coach who can help players.

 

[oldunclehue]

I recall a couple years ago when I read that Laine's summer routine had him not skating for weeks on end. I'd really be curious what his off ice work is like, how much does he put in to it? What does he do?

I'd say looking at Matthews Vs. Laine = off ice/professional has to be the reason why there is such a gap in them play and stats wise. Laine just does not put the work in.

Anyone from Finland here know what Laine's off season regiment is like?

I know a current NHLer who played in the New York area, off season work is ridiculous, on ice, nutrition, gym etc etc....

 

[BullLund]

I recall a couple years ago when I read that Laine's summer routine had him not skating for weeks on end. I'd really be curious what his off ice work is like, how much does he put in to it? What does he do?

I'd say looking at Matthews Vs. Laine = off ice/professional has to be the reason why there is such a gap in them play and stats wise. Laine just does not put the work in.

Anyone from Finland here know what Laine's off season regiment is like?

I know a current NHLer who played in the New York area, off season work is ridiculous, on ice, nutrition, gym etc etc....

From what I understand he does the same training as most Finnish professionals, including Mikko Rantanen.

I think his off-season training was good, he looked very good in his first game back, but he probably lost all the results during his early injury, as well as the problems that COVID introduced to keeping up his regular routines.

 

[majormajor]

From what I understand he does the same training as most Finnish professionals, including Mikko Rantanen.

I think his off-season training was good, he looked very good in his first game back, but he probably lost all the results during his early injury, as well as the problems that COVID introduced to keeping up his regular routines.

That doesn't sound right to me.

If you lose strength that quickly then you didn't train enough in the first place. That and I wonder about lifestyle. If he's still sitting in a gaming chair all the time it's going to be hard to develop and maintain strength. I don't know if that's all old news though.

 

[VT]

From what I understand he does the same training as most Finnish professionals, including Mikko Rantanen.

I think his off-season training was good, he looked very good in his first game back, but he probably lost all the results during his early injury, as well as the problems that COVID introduced to keeping up his regular routines.

Every player needs special program for him. It`s a question did Laine have ideal program for him? And what with regime?

 

[gearmex]

They all train together every summer, Rantanen, Barkov, Laine and lot of NHLers on same group. It cannot be his training have issue, lot of news paper reports of their training during summer freely available.
He is training hard is a fact.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

1. Laine wants To stay

2. Laine takes responsibility for his poor play and blames only himself. Plans to stay in Columbus at the end of the season to continue to work with our strength and conditioning staff

3. jackets want to keep him

4. jarmo is looking to do whatever he can to acquire a top line center to help him

 

[majormajor]

I am encouraged by this report, especially the part about Laine starting with trainers in Columbus.

I did get a funny feeling from "get a #1C to help him". We could use a #1C for a lot of things. And maybe the best usage isn't Laine with the #1C. In his first years in Winnipeg he was sheltered behind the topline, he usually didn't have a very good center, but had a great transition guy in Ehlers on the other wing. That might be a better model for us.

 

[NotCommitted]

I am encouraged by this report, especially the part about Laine starting with trainers in Columbus.

I did get a funny feeling from "get a #1C to help him". We could use a #1C for a lot of things. And maybe the best usage isn't Laine with the #1C. In his first years in Winnipeg he was sheltered behind the topline, he usually didn't have a very good center, but had a great transition guy in Ehlers on the other wing. That might be a better model for us.

During his rookie season he played a lot with Scheifele (who did start out the season as their #2C but quickly took the no1 spot) and that line was money with any of Ehlers/Copp/Perrault on the other wing. Little never worked out well with him, but Stastny was probably the best fit he had in Jets, since he is such a smart player and knew exactly what he had to do to allow Ehlers and Laine shine.

Part of where it began to "go wrong" in the eyes of many fans was that he actually never played with Scheif again until late in his 3rd season. During his rookie year it looked like Laine/Scheifele was going to be the combo to build around for years to come. I think it probably set the expectation for Laine as well.

 

[majormajor]

During his rookie season he played a lot with Scheifele (who did start out the season as their #2C but quickly took the no1 spot) and that line was money with any of Ehlers/Copp/Perrault on the other wing. Little never worked out well with him, but Stastny was probably the best fit he had in Jets, since he is such a smart player and knew exactly what he had to do to allow Ehlers and Laine shine.

Part of where it began to "go wrong" in the eyes of many fans was that he actually never played with Scheif again until late in his 3rd season. During his rookie year it looked like Laine/Scheifele was going to be the combo to build around for years to come. I think it probably set the expectation for Laine as well.

Yeah I was there for that, and I never bought the idea that Scheifele needed to play with Laine. Laine just needs linemates to do puck carrying for him, not necessarily the best linemates.

 

[VT]

1. Laine wants To stay

2. Laine takes responsibility for his poor play and blames only himself. Plans to stay in Columbus at the end of the season to continue to work with our strength and conditioning staff

3. jackets want to keep him

4. jarmo is looking to do whatever he can to acquire a top line center to help him

I`m pleasantly shocked. Really. So I was wrong he isn`t a teenager. I`m sorry Patrik.

Yeah I was there for that, and I never bought the idea that Scheifele needed to play with Laine. Laine just needs linemates to do puck carrying for him, not necessarily the best linemates.

IMHO Laine doesn`t need any olay driver ot the best center only a center who has a good defense and quite good offense, even like 1/2 Domi. He showe he can be a good play driver too if he has a good day.

 

[JacketsDavid]

1. Laine wants To stay

2. Laine takes responsibility for his poor play and blames only himself. Plans to stay in Columbus at the end of the season to continue to work with our strength and conditioning staff

3. jackets want to keep him

4. jarmo is looking to do whatever he can to acquire a top line center to help him

I'm really happy Jarmo is going to do whatever he can to acquire a 1C. I mean he's got to be due - he's been trying to get one each year since he's been here...

 

[DarkandStormy]

I'm really happy Jarmo is going to do whatever he can to acquire a 1C. I mean he's got to be due - he's been trying to get one each year since he's been here...

He inherited one and traded him away.
He drafted one who then requested a trade.
(Assumes 2016-2017 Wennberg wasn't a 1C...who he bought out.)

 

[Viqsi]

I'm really happy Jarmo is going to do whatever he can to acquire a 1C. I mean he's got to be due - he's been trying to get one each year since he's been here...

can we please dispense with the hyperbolic negativity kthx